His rebirth will be the story of your redemption.

[Blayze]

The Xe'ra chain is fucking retarded. "Oh woe is Illidan, such a noble and righteous soul! Few have endured such betrayal and loss--"

Get fucked. This is beyond retconning; we need a new word for this.

[Strategos]

The only thing that appeared out of character from my perspective was Kael'thas joining with the legion.

Outside of that? Illdan went bonkers, hardly surprising.
Vashj fanatically loyal to Illidan, still there.
Maiev, pissed at Illidan, figured as much.

At this point, we're pretty much done with the majority of Warcraft 3:TFT characters that also appeared in BC, maybe Akama but i don't really see how he acted out of character.

BC had hardly any story and explained even less, that was the big issue here, but with the exception of Kael'thas i can't really find those major revisionisms and retcons.

Yea, no.

There is a difference between being radical, doing extreme things in Warcraft 3, and turning into a one-dimensional villain with designated insanity in TBC. 'Illidan going bonkers' is not only an understatement, but a mis-characterization of who he was in the Warcraft 3 campaigns. You might question the ethics of his actions in Warcraft 3, but they were rational and consistent with his goals. TBC Illidan was entirely irrational.

You're just lying to yourself if you think it was anything but character assassination that happened in TBC.

Akama and Kael obviously fit this category as well.

Vashj was just plain ignored as a character entirely but what little we did get from her played her out to be another one-dimensional evil loot pinata villain.

About the only character they got right was Maeiv, which isn't really difficult to capture when her character can be summarized as -chase after Illidan-.

You're right it had hardly any story and was explained even less.

None of these characters were evil characters in War3 and suddenly they all became one-dimensional villains with designated insanity. Why? Because Blizzard needed loot pinatas so they just made them do a bunch of bad shit that made no sense in their characters points of views.

It was a heap of garbage and the fact that you're sitting here defending it is laughable.

The only difference now is that Blizzard has taken the see-saw and tipped it the other way. Funny how hardly anyone complained in TBC but now that they're being told they the characters did 'bad', it is causing an uproar.

Rule No.1 of business - The customer is always right. Blizzard is telling the customer they are wrong. It doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the story is good or bad. People just hate being told they were wrong and that's why everyone is whining about this in particular more than any other faulty story element in the game.

People are just spoiled brats

[Life-Binder]

Xe'ra will go full yandere-mode after Illi is revived and says he doesnt want to marry her

[Requimortem]

The Xe'ra chain is fucking retarded. "Oh woe is Illidan, such a noble and righteous soul! Few have endured such betrayal and loss--"

Get fucked. This is beyond retconning; we need a new word for this.

I believe "Blizzarding" would be appropriate given that I've never seen any other developers butcher their own story so badly.

[Trassk]

The Xe'ra chain is fucking retarded. "Oh woe is Illidan, such a noble and righteous soul! Few have endured such betrayal and loss--"

Get fucked. This is beyond retconning; we need a new word for this.

This entire expansion is one massive circle jerk for elves in warcraft "oh look out great Malfurion is, Oh look out great the night elves in val'shara are, Oh look out myserious the elves in suramar are, Oh look out wonderful and brilliant and amazing Illidan is, Oh look out edgy the demon hunters are"

Its no surprise they are kissing Illidans ass so much in an expansion where elves are the be all and end all of all things, for all the bitching about orcs in the last expansion and thrall in prior ones, none of that compares to the drooling fangasm thats elf lore here. Even the part where they pissed on draenei lore with making Elune the creator of the narru just breaks all immersion for me.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yea, no.

There is a difference between being radical, doing extreme things in Warcraft 3, and turning into a one-dimensional villain with designated insanity in TBC. 'Illidan going bonkers' is not only an understatement, but a mis-characterization of who he was in the Warcraft 3 campaigns. You might question the ethics of his actions in Warcraft 3, but they were rational and consistent with his goals. TBC Illidan was entirely irrational

.

Perhaps but Illidan always had shitty methods to deal with situations. He might of had good intentions or even does something good but how he succeeded was the big problem. Also note I recall Malfurion even said before BC(Or it was when it was released) that Illidan was far gone replaying what happened with Arthas several times but Illidan being the victor. His sanity was questioned so there isn't a doubt there.

In some ways Illidan being an enemy/Boss of an expansion wasn't bad but questing back then was much different then it is now.

Akama and Kael obviously fit this category as well.

Kael'thas was poorly used. Him suddenly turning to Kil'Jaeden and the Legion was silly and should of stayed around but...what's done is done. We know why Akama turned against Illidan, Illidan at this point was just as bad as the demonic Pit Lord Magtheridon.

The only difference now is that Blizzard has taken the see-saw and tipped it the other way. Funny how hardly anyone complained in TBC but now that they're being told they the characters did 'bad', it is causing an uproar.

I'm confident there was complaining but I don't know how much. I didn't join until Wrath.

I don't think the rule of Customers always being right is relevant here. Customers can always be wrong, depending on the situation. Xe'ra making us seem like the bad guy because somehow Illidan had the plans all along to fight the Legion. How would we even know what Illidan was truly doing. Xe'ra may know all of this through being the Prime Naaru or something. Still no excuse to treat us like we are wrong because we fight Illidan(If your character did anyways). It just feels like an uncalled for scolding on her part.

I believe "Blizzarding" would be appropriate given that I've never seen any other developers butcher their own story so badly.

Still ranting and being hateful are ya? Sad.

[Deleted]

also what about A'dal, is he a dick too in xe'ras eyes, does A'dal need to prove himself worthy after he defied senpai illidan?

It appears this is being completely ignored. The other Naaru aren't even being mentioned, at all. It's painte as Jesullidan being on the cross and us walking up out of nowhere, starting to victimize him as we scream "WITCH, WITCH!" and proceed to burn him at the stake. It's a complete perversion of BC and Illidans story up untill recently aswell as our characters and their actions throughout all of WoW.

We at no point get to point out any of the flaws in this, all the other Naaru are conveniently unavaiable for comment and we can only grovel and apologize not being allowed to question at all as even our characters and acts in story are being retconned. This, is altogether worse than what they did in Cataclysm with Thrall and it's absolutely atrociously bad writing of the wrong kind.

I'd argue this is more depressing and off putting as Dragon Age 2.

You're not making any sense.

No, no, you're the one who's wrong. Constantly repeating that you like illidan wont improve your argument, it only helps to undermine it.

I believe "Blizzarding" would be appropriate given that I've never seen any other developers butcher their own story so badly.

I don't know, this is even worse altogether. This time around they aren't retconning just NPCs and story elements whom where "out there", their retcon directly affects the player characters and players. Which is about the worst thing you can do. I like the expansion itself sans some problems with PvP right now but the writing is rapidly going down the drain. It's like WoD levels of bad coupled with Cataclysm esque Thrall but this time replaced with Illidan.

[Requimortem]

I don't know, this is even worse altogether. This time around they aren't retconning just NPCs and story elements whom where "out there", their retcon directly affects the player characters and players. Which is about the worst thing you can do. I like the expansion itself sans some problems with PvP right now but the writing is rapidly going down the drain. It's like WoD levels of bad coupled with Cataclysm esque Thrall but this time replaced with Illidan.

The story started going downhill when they thought it was a good idea to end Wrath of the Lich King with the whole "There must always be a Lich King" nonsense. Then they decided to throw in Deathwing out of nowhere, Mists of Pandaria shoved Garrosh in the generic villain role and Warlords of Draenor had Grom mass murdering people then suddenly being on the side of the "good guys" because he had a change of heart. The story as it is now with this whole Illidan thing was pretty much expected given what we've dealt with. Although I am fairly certain things will only get worse as this expansion progresses.

[Florena]

You're not making any sense.

- - - Updated - - -



And TBC storyline was full of revisionisms, retcons, and character assassinations of several of the most significant Warcraft 3 characters acting completely out of chararcter.

The Illidan novel puts it all in perspective and 'retcons' the poor storyline aspects of TBC that made no sense. It retconned a retcon. Your priorities are mixed up if you want to complain more about the Illidan novel than the TBC storyline.

Complaining about the "Illidan' novel retconning TBC lore is like complaining about medicine tasting bad when you are sick.

I'm not complaining about the Illidan novel, I'm complaining about Xe'ra fanboying over Illidan and not acknowledging any of the bad he did and whitewashing him and painting his downfall as some sort of evil deed at the hands of the players.

- - - Updated - - -

This entire expansion is one massive circle jerk for elves in warcraft "oh look out great Malfurion is, Oh look out great the night elves in val'shara are, Oh look out myserious the elves in suramar are, Oh look out wonderful and brilliant and amazing Illidan is, Oh look out edgy the demon hunters are"

Its no surprise they are kissing Illidans ass so much in an expansion where elves are the be all and end all of all things, for all the bitching about orcs in the last expansion and thrall in prior ones, none of that compares to the drooling fangasm thats elf lore here. Even the part where they pissed on draenei lore with making Elune the creator of the narru just breaks all immersion for me.

Yes look at how great Malfurion and the druids are as Xavius beats them at every turn, Malfurion is quickly captured and several powerful druids including Cenarius himself fall to corruption.

[Qualia]

I'm not complaining about the Illidan novel, I'm complaining about Xe'ra fanboying over Illidan and not acknowledging any of the bad he did and whitewashing him and painting his downfall as some sort of evil deed at the hands of the players.

Well, to be fair, it's less of not acknowledging what Illidan did and more of not caring about those. After all, if A'dal who was right on Outland didn't care about it much, why should Xe'ra? That's probably just how the Naaru is. I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard turn them into future antagonists after we've cleaned all the major bosses from the Legion / Void.

[MikeBogina]

Yes look at how great Malfurion and the druids are as Xavius beats them at every turn, Malfurion is quickly captured and several powerful druids including Cenarius himself fall to corruption.

I switched from my Demon Hunter to my druid and started the artifact quest and I thought to myself about all these other classes have their shit together and can counter many different types of enemies. And then these druids, they're so easily corruptible or captured.

Then I thought, what would have happened if someone like Illidan was switched with Malfurion in those situations, like how much quicker and smoother they would be over if he went and fought Xavius.

Druids just feel weak and their Kit always feels like it's saving the nature people who are too in-tune with natural that they get corrupted so easily.

[DesoPL]

I very much think it is a manipulation, and right now I'm leaning to Sarj or KJ being the manipulators. Someone here said that couldn't be the case because of the Tears of Elune, but that's precisely why I think that it is. My friend totally missed portions of this story beat in real time, so here's why:

1: You go to find the Tears in Val'Sharah
2: But oh no, Xavius the Everpresent already beat you to it
3: He corrupts the Tears and uses it on Ysera to corrupt her - This is why she goes down so fast, and I think a lot of people miss it but you know it's true because...
4: You get the Tears back after killing Ysera, only they have been purified by their presence in the Temple....

But what if they haven't been? What if that was the plan the whole time, to corrupt one of the Pillars and allow it to fall back into the hands of the Champion? KJ or whoever couldn't have known exactly what we'd do with it, but in using it on Light's Heart there is essentially now a mole in our order hall and the Deceiver can do his thang and try to manipulate the heroes of the story.

What the end game would be there, I don't know, but it would certainly explain why Xe'Ra and the other Naaru aren't on the same page...

The question is, how is possible that Xe'Ra didin't turned yet into void god?

[Archibalde]

The only difference now is that Blizzard has taken the see-saw and tipped it the other way. Funny how hardly anyone complained in TBC but now that they're being told they the characters did 'bad', it is causing an uproar.

Rule No.1 of business - The customer is always right. Blizzard is telling the customer they are wrong. It doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the story is good or bad. People just hate being told they were wrong and that's why everyone is whining about this in particular more than any other faulty story element in the game.

People are just spoiled brats

The problem is that they're just telling the players. They're not proving it, it doesn't even seem like they have any interest in showing that. If anything, they're just showing in more detail that Illidan made questionable decisions with little to no moral justifications and yet at the end they scold the players for thinking he did something wrong.

It has nothing to do with entitlement. If they would have shown a different side of Illidan it would have completely changed the dynamic of the story and the reception as well. Something as simple as Illidan telling his magi "I'm sorry it has to come to this, but we can't defeat the Legion invasion unless you sacrifice your powers to me" would have made a big difference in the Black Rook Hold portion. Instead, they went with his magi feeling confused and betrayed as Illidan drained their lives.

Better yet, they could have just admitted that Illidan was a terrible person in the past, despite his good intentions. Give him a proper redemption instead of a poor attempt at a retcon. But they didn't choose to do that...

It's 100% bad storytelling. If you are going to tell your players that they're wrong, show them why. Don't show them the character still doing evil things and simply say "you're the asshole, feel bad!" at the end. Of course people are not going to appreciate that. Not because they don't want to be told they were wrong, because it makes no sense.

[Kitanii]

PS. I totally wrecked the shit out of that raid, they kept battle ressing like shitlords.

I remember those days when you were able to battlerez the shit out of your raid

[Deleted]

So we have full-on been retconned as arseholes of TBC now... nice.

[Qualia]

I remember those days when you were able to battlerez the shit out of your raid

The glorious job of being the OOC Rezzer.

[Mehrunes]

im not a fan of it myself.
this is just... way over the top ridiculous.
xe'ras little fangirl personality is also extremely bullshit.

annoying floating fangirling crystal bitch.

I really should have listened to the Inquisitor in my Order Hall protesting about Light's Heart and just thrown it off the ledge into the Nether.

[Verdugo]

I really should have listened to the Inquisitor in my Order Hall protesting about Light's Heart and just thrown it off the ledge into the Nether.

It would just fall back to Azeroth.

[SoundOfGuns]

None of these characters were evil characters in War3 and suddenly they all became one-dimensional villains with designated insanity. Why? Because Blizzard needed loot pinatas so they just made them do a bunch of bad shit that made no sense in their characters points of views.

Yea i don't got that either. Vashj was actually something that would have been worth exploring at some point. There was some potential here if they painted Illidan as a bad guy since she was basically a tsundere having a crush... Maybe have her be mildly upset or something like that would have helped or reappearing to take revenge in some form... I don't know. Now, she wasn't a great character but... See, there are easy ideas and then there is "Character has no meaning and just gets offed in Serpentshrine". Kael is... even worse. He appeared more often, yea. He showed up at the end of a few questlines, yea. And i actually enjoyed the deal with him returning for the Sunwell... but... THAT Kael'Thas Sunreaver and the one we got in The Frozen Throne are two different people.

The Kael we met there had a serious care for his people. He helped Malfurion, Tyrande and Maiev after having to deal with Garrithos racist bullshit, helped clean up Dalaran and was overall a pretty swell fellow. Even the one we meat in his Raid feels kind of weird and every encounter before that feels oddly like he is just a villian for no reason. Even to his fellow Bloodelves who are actually not even against him at this point and wait for his return and try to find him as his loyal suspects... It just made no sense either. TBC had a ridiclously bad lore overall from the getgo with little pocket-stories that worked but nothing bigger made any sense or properly tied to WC3. It feels more like they simply gave us a game to encounter important characters, rather than giving any focus on the story at all. It simply didnt mean anything.


...anyway about Illidan, i try to not get... to mad about it. Its silly... but lets see what the rest of the Expansion does. I really don't need Illidan the Messiah. Its funny how they made us the choosen ones of our classes and then instantly one-up us with Illidan and declare us hatefilled monsters for killing the mad, horned slaver from outland. Im sure if my Paladin could speak on his own he had some VERY interesting thoughts to share with that glorified collection of glassbottle shards.

[Deleted]

Agreed. This quest is awfull and shits on 20 years of Warcraft lore.
One of their worst idea ever. New Illidan status coming out of nowhere (We saw Garrosh's fall through end Wotlk, Cata and the MoP which made it consistent and intereesting lore-wise). This is just a bad convenient magic trick that makes me wonder if they actually give a damn about how players perceive the ennemies they fought during the last 20 years (Warcraft + WoW).