[Speculation] I wonder how the Nightborne will regard the Night Elves post Elisande

[SoundOfGuns]

Its not suprising if the Nightborne feel more a kin with the Sin'Dorei. They did not give up on magic either, even after losing their source and fell victim to a similar decay. They also split up into two groups with one part falling to the Legion out of hunger...Funny enough in both cases the leader they looked up to joined the Legion here as well. The difference being that this split between the current Bloodelves and Kael'Thas' group happened before they were opposing factions, which allowed the Bloodelves to rebuild on their own. Silvermoon was devestated but... they still had it after all to start over and had to take it back from what was left of the scourge, not from their own brothers and sisters.

[Arrashi]

Protip: her likeability goes up like 50% when you turn off the sound during her dialogue. It's like Blizzard couldn't settle for an accent she has, so they just gave her all.

To be fair, tyrande seems like she made fighting the "girls are the cutest when they are almost retarded" stereotype her lifegoal. Than again, she lacks the "almost" part.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The nightwell corrupts the nightborne it should be destory, what the hell do you think we are doing right now, have you played the legion, the whole time you are helping them find a cure to the corruption the nightwell brings

That is not why we are in surumar, we need the eye of amin thul. And they want a cure for the withering, not for some night elf to come in and say their source of food needs to be blown up.

[Deleted]

That is not why we are in surumar, we need the eye of amin thul. And they want a cure for the withering, not for some night elf to come in and say their source of food needs to be blown up.

I think we are going to have a problem after defeating gul'dan, since it will take a long time for all the Nightborne to be cured of this addiction and during that time they will need to feed from the nightwell but now we have Tyrande saying she wants to destroy it immediately so yeah there is going to be a fight or a debate afterwards

[Raetary]

The nightwell corrupts the nightborne it should be destory, what the hell do you think we are doing right now, have you played the legion, the whole time you are helping them find a cure to the corruption the nightwell brings

We are in suramar to get the eye of aman'thul.
If it wasnt for elisande fucking wit her people and allying herself with the legion we wouldnt even have to help them.
Nor is it a good idea to destroy the well, we could hellishly benefit from it, nor do we need to destroy it because of the corruption, that's what the arcan'dor is for.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[Deleted]

Nor is it a good idea to destroy the well, we could hellishly benefit from it, nor do we need to destroy it because of the corruption, that's what the arcan'dor is for.

tell that to Tyrande

[Friendlyimmolation]

I think we are going to have a problem after defeating gul'dan, since it will take a long time for all the Nightborne to be cured of this addiction and during that time they will need to feed from the nightwell but now we have Tyrande saying she wants to destroy it immediately so yeah there is going to be a fight or a debate afterwards

The nightborne alone could hold of tyrande from the nightwell, and I'm sure the blood elves would more than love a chance to beat down the night elves again if given the chance

[Deleted]

This is a good time to be a blood elf. I might switch my main from my Draenei mage to my blood elf paladin in preparation for 7.1.

Also correct me if I am wrong, and spoilers for safety: Doesn't Elisande get a redemption during her fight or am I remembering things I read during Beta wrong? Also isn't Thalyssra her daughter? I swear i have those weird ideas in my head but I don't know where I got them from.

[Aucald]

This is a good time to be a blood elf. I might switch my main from my Draenei mage to my blood elf paladin in preparation for 7.1.

Also correct me if I am wrong, and spoilers for safety: Doesn't Elisande get a redemption during her fight or am I remembering things I read during Beta wrong? Also isn't Thalyssra her daughter? I swear i have those weird ideas in my head but I don't know where I got them from.

I don't believe Thalyssra is Elisande's daughter, no - or at least I've never heard that from the released audio or otherwise. As for Elisande's redemption, if I remember correctly she emerges from the Nightwell after her defeat having time-traveled from the past to see her future self defeated by the players. She makes a speech about how she saw no other way for the Nightborne to defeat the Legion but her visions of time didn't factor the Horde or Alliance in. She commits the Nightborne to the cause of fighting the Legion, but I don't know if she remains present in the future or returns to the past to meet her eventual fate.

[Deleted]

I don't believe Thalyssra is Elisande's daughter, no - or at least I've never heard that from the released audio or otherwise. As for Elisande's redemption, if I remember correctly she emerges from the Nightwell after her defeat having time-traveled from the past to see her future self defeated by the players. She makes a speech about how she saw no other way for the Nightborne to defeat the Legion but her visions of time didn't factor the Horde or Alliance in. She commits the Nightborne to the cause of fighting the Legion, but I don't know if she remains present in the future or returns to the past to meet her eventual fate.

time traveling ...again? oh my head hurts

[Enthralled]

time traveling ...again? oh my head hurts

Well, it's not like WoD. We're trying to get the Eye of Aman'thul. Aman'thul was the titan who had the power over timeways and such. He was Nozdormu's patron. The fact that the Nightborne and their ruling class -- Elisande most of all -- were masters of the wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey side of arcane magic can be attributed to this. Think the ordinary mage spell Blink, but on a much great level.

[Mace]

wants to visit Quel'Thalas because he speak with the blood elves and they told about a city of magic and libraries full of magical knowledge. talk about how it will be the reaction of a group with another group or another group, makes no sense. at the end of the battle all they identify themselves as what they are only elves. the heirs of the greatest empire in history

This is the interaction many of us were hoping to see with the first batch of Highborne from Eldre'thalas, they may have joined to the night elves, but I couldn't possibly see them hating the high elves or blood elves. For a while they were with them teaching them reforging - so we know some interaction happened, just not expanded upon.

It's nice to also see some of the Broken Isles night elves friendly and curious about the High/Blood elves - rather than been pidgeon holed into blood elf haters just because they are night elven or look night elven. Non of the broken isle night elven groups should have any beef with the high elves or blood elves, that is entirely a Northern Kalidmdor night elf and high elf issue.

I don't like the conflict been forced upon, Khadgar bringing it up is also worrisome, because the elven disagreement has been described like that for the second time, but hasn't ever been shown to be as conflicting as the horde/alliance conflict. They were exiled, not killed, and they never fought each other. Sure there would be hurt and bitterness at both sides, but 10k years later, they were quite amicable until the blood elves joined Illidan and then the Horde or the Legion - and that's when the killing started. Dislike yes, but it's only between those specific groups. The Shen'dralar, the various broken isles night groups including Suramar and the nightborne would have no beef with the high elves or blood elves.

I like that the focus also is not on fighting each other, but finally banding together to fight the Legion. The legion, not magic is the source of the division. The Legion destroyed those lives, Suramar, Eldre'thalas and the Hyjal survivors all stood against them, Zin'Azshari was for. The Legion caused the mayhem, the Night elves blamed themselves but in particular the highborne group at the palace. The whole ban on magic as mis-informed as it was, was a huge sacrifice to prevent the Legion from returning, though they were wrong about it, they were very serious too about not using it feeling it would spell doom. The highborne tried to demonstrate this wasn't the case, it went horribly wrong - exile, those highborne forged a new destiny, and the high elf defined himself apart from his kaldorei roots. They became a significant group in their own rights - as Rommath mentions, we forged our own destiny - different from any kaldorei based lifestyle or culture.

But as much as they changed, they are still many similarities, certainly enough to be able to identify with the nightborne. And we see they clearly do. I am not aware how the nightborne feel about them though. The only insight I have so far is how the nightborne feel about the night elves they've been working with, and until Tyrande entered the picture, it was all Broken Isles Night Elves, not Alliance once. Unless the hero is alliance night elf

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Its not suprising if the Nightborne feel more a kin with the Sin'Dorei. They did not give up on magic either, even after losing their source and fell victim to a similar decay. They also split up into two groups with one part falling to the Legion out of hunger...Funny enough in both cases the leader they looked up to joined the Legion here as well. The difference being that this split between the current Bloodelves and Kael'Thas' group happened before they were opposing factions, which allowed the Bloodelves to rebuild on their own. Silvermoon was devestated but... they still had it after all to start over and had to take it back from what was left of the scourge, not from their own brothers and sisters.

no, one part did not fall into the Legion out of hunger, the only reason the Legion had a foothold there is because the leader accepted the ultimatum of Gul'dan, and she didn't do it out of hunger or thirst for power, she did it she felt as the only way to save her people.

I have yet to see nightborne reaction to sin'dorei although we've seen both high elf and blood elf reaction to the nightborne in 7.1

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That is not why we are in surumar, we need the eye of amin thul. And they want a cure for the withering, not for some night elf to come in and say their source of food needs to be blown up.

idd, blow up the nightwell.. does Tyrande want another sundering? Ofc we have to factor in other perspectives - she could be merely commenting on ending what seems to be the source of the problem, which is one option, she is not attempting to destroy it at all, the comment seems more a reflection of her irritation than any true desire. Tyrande is really upset by this, but it is out of love, not out of hate - this is her home city that has been defiled by the Legion, what should have been a source of pride for enduring the first sundering and defeating the Legion - afterall, Elisande led the night elves of Suramar to a victory that ensured Tyrande and the armies with her eventually triumphed. Only to see demons walking the streets now - and doing so because of the Nightwell - she'd be livid - for now.

Once things have either calmed down or she's been caught up to exactly all the dynamics, she will easily find lots to be proud of, or should do, especially fighting side by side with Thalyssra, she would also understand Elisande's decision - and Tyrande if I'm guessing right, might surprise all of you again by being the one to be most lenient to Elisande. Makes her seem yoyo but only because she isn't explained fully all the time, but the clues and cues are all there for you to accurately predict her behaviour.

Yes she will love Thalyssra, but Thalyssra might not return the sentiment if she is merciful to Elisande. Tyrande will ignore everyone's opinion and do what is right, what the goddess directs her to do, even against what she might want to do, just as she does in Val'sharah, by refusing to go in after Malfurion to answer the call of Elune. Tyrande understands duty over love, or duty as also love.

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We are in suramar to get the eye of aman'thul.
If it wasnt for elisande fucking wit her people and allying herself with the legion we wouldnt even have to help them.
Nor is it a good idea to destroy the well, we could hellishly benefit from it, nor do we need to destroy it because of the corruption, that's what the arcan'dor is for.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

Agreed, see my response above, Tyrande is not seriously considering that, nor does she attempt to do that either, it seems a comment made more out of irritation as one option of ending this whole mess. Note, Tyrande is pissed, but more like a loving mother over her family or sibling that is annoyed those who know better let it go this far. She does commit both her resurces and her life to helping out - lets not forget that, and she urges others to help the nightborne rebellion too.

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This is a good time to be a blood elf. I might switch my main from my Draenei mage to my blood elf paladin in preparation for 7.1.

Also correct me if I am wrong, and spoilers for safety: Doesn't Elisande get a redemption during her fight or am I remembering things I read during Beta wrong? Also isn't Thalyssra her daughter? I swear i have those weird ideas in my head but I don't know where I got them from.

What if Elisande is Tyrande's sister, have you not noticed the similarity in the name?

Could we be getting the night version of the Windrunner sisters? This would also be a very different dynamic but also interesting. Tyrande the high prietess, Elisande the Grand Magistrix, Thalyssra daughter? What would be interesting is if Thalyssra and Shandris were sisters. For biggest dramatic effect. I think the most interesting storyline would be if Elisande and Tyrande were related - either mother and daughter or elder sibling. Then if Thalyssra and Shandris were related - that would be a tear jerker

Drenalim Whisperwind is Warden, but we don't know if she's related to Tyrande and/or Kamatri Whisperwind - could be another branch of the family or unrelated.

There is potential for the intimate touch, I hope they take full advantage of it. They don't need to repeat the Windrunner saga, but they can have something quite touching and interesting here.

[SoundOfGuns]

no, one part did not fall into the Legion out of hunger, the only reason the Legion had a foothold there is because the leader accepted the ultimatum of Gul'dan, and she didn't do it out of hunger or thirst for power, she did it she felt as the only way to save her people.

I have yet to see nightborne reaction to sin'dorei although we've seen both high elf and blood elf reaction to the nightborne in 7.1

You are right... in a sense. I get it tho. The Nightborn got an ultimatum to either take the shield down and let the Legion in and would be granted the use of the nightwell as reward or they were threatened to lose everything when the Legion would tear it down by force. Kael'thas on the other hand simply wanted to clench the hunger of his people, lost and switched sides somewhere before or after the encounter because Illidan could not deliver out of sheer greed for more. Maybe the Nightborn did not act out of hunger or thirst for power but certainly out of cowardice maybe even convinience and it was the second time they did if im not mistaking? First sealing themselves from the future Nightelves now again shacking because of a threat that sounds mighty like a bluff... In either case both Leaderships basically betrayed their people to the Legion because of flawed decision making.

I can't wait to see that three-elfnation-army march tho.

[Enthralled]

What if Elisande is Tyrande's sister, have you not noticed the similarity in the name?

Elisande was of the Highborne. Tyrande's family, along with the Stormrages, were simple commoners.

So no.

[Mace]

You are right... in a sense. I get it tho. The Nightborn got an ultimatum to either take the shield down and let the Legion in and would be granted the use of the nightwell as reward or they were threatened to lose everything when the Legion would tear it down by force. Kael'thas on the other hand simply wanted to clench the hunger of his people, lost and switched sides somewhere before or after the encounter because Illidan could not deliver out of sheer greed for more. Maybe the Nightborn did not act out of hunger or thirst for power but certainly out of cowardice maybe even convinience and it was the second time they did if im not mistaking? First sealing themselves from the future Nightelves now again shacking because of a threat that sounds mighty like a bluff... In either case both Leaderships basically betrayed their people to the Legion because of flawed decision making.

I can't wait to see that three-elfnation-army march tho.

Well, looking at the story, my conclusion is actually arrogance is the heart of the decision. Elisande trusts her magic far too much to override even her sense of right or wrong. It is very commendable to want to save your people ... but not at all possible costs - not to losing their souls. Illidan might actually understand Elisande - but Elisande actually lets in the very horror Illidan is committed to fight - Illidan feigned joining the legion, Elisande actually joined them but very cuiously not whole-heartedly nor happily.

Elisande relies on the titan magic to make her decision - not on what is right or wrong. That's why Thalyssra and later Tyrande are furious over the whole affair - how could you let THAT in - those abominations, evil, destroyers, rapers, murderers, enslavers, corrupters yeah THAT. But for an intellectual like Elisande (not that Thalyssra or Tyrande aren't), but it's Elisande that is leading the city and the decisioni lies with her and all your knowledge is telling you the Legion will win if you don't surrender, and your knowledge and power is quite considerable, titan enhanced too, will you against all reason (and this is reason based on the strength of your ability) hope for a different outcome regardless and do the right thing? People who do that are the ones considered to have extraordinary faith - because they trusted that despite their knowledge or abilitiy, or understanding of the situation, that doing good and right was better, and despite everything they could see or predict using their predictive models was telling them, they would fight anyway, fight that evil rather than join it.

Turns out Elisande was wrong. despite her incredible skill and power, it was wrong here - echoes of Algalon return "you defy all expectations, succeeding where the titans own perfect creations failed" Elisande trusted the result of her ability and the titan artifact concering her own future, not once thinking that anyone else would successfully or be able to stand if the nightborne, the ones with the most power would fail. She finally discovers this flaw after we defeat her and chooses instead to aid us, taking a leap of faith.. maybe Tyrande got to her. It is to be noted, that the titan artifact and Elisande's usage of it is not necessarily inaccurate.. just not complete. The nightborne alone would predictively have fell to the Legion - but it would not factor in what you don't add to it. Us. Especially an us aided by the Light and a goddess who are presumably outside the timeline, just as Gul'dan AU was out of the current timeline, this immediately creates possibilities that make the best predictive model not a 100% guarantee as the outcome, only the outcome with those given variables.


And yes, there was an element of cowardice, look at how Gul'dan seduces them with the carrot after the threat or the dare - "you get to keep your titles and comforts" - we see this turns some of the advisors - cowardly men who'd rather in fear accept this evil to keep their positions of power than fight it. As amazing a thing that they did in saving the city, they've obviously been living comfy in exactly the same fashion for 10k years, so some would not want that to end even if it meant standing against the evil that put them in that prison in the first place. Thalyssra immediately calls it right, Elisande is swayed by her logic rather than her heart or righteousness to nearly dooming her people - if it wasn't for Thalyssra surviving to fight on well certainly the nightborne and the last great Night elven city would be lost for real. I wonder if Elune was the one that helped Thalyssra survive that attempted murder ..? I mean I know Thalyssra probably cast a spell or something to help, but sometimes even that is not enough and a little help you may not realize is actually given.. it's another option that crosses my mind on how things could have happened.

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Elisande was of the Highborne. Tyrande's family, along with the Stormrages, were simple commoners.

So no.

Not necessarily Enthralled, look a little closer. We aren't told Tyrande's family history, we feel the Stormrages aren't highborne because of how they are written, although there is a possibility that they may have been, and if they were, likely in the lower echelons, with Malfurion outright rejecting it, and Illidan pursuing sorcery - the thing is if they were highborne it should have been mentioned when they were covering Illidan.. so ti's likely they are not.

but not so with Tyrande - we have no such knowledge of. We know, because we are emphtically told that becoming a priestess you sever all ties. This would include ties to family, the highborne, the arcane, to nature etc, we are told as much that it is expected of all novices, you give up everything to serve the goddess.

Tyrande could have been Highborne, and given that up - not all highborne were jerks or crazy either, as you can clearly see in Suramar, not all the fancy nobles and elites are evil or terrible people, good ones like House Lunastre and House Astravvar exist too. We are not told of Tyrande's origin, and she is called Lady Tyrande by both the highborne and non-alike which to me is a subtle hint that Tyrande was born of a highborne family.

Remember, in night elf culture, you can also be raised to highborne too, it is also possible that Elisande being very talented was raised to highborne whiles the others were not, but my suspicion is her family were a highborne family. If some of her family came with her in the War of the Ancients from Suramar, don't forget all highborne that remained with the night elves relinquished their titles and former lifestyles - which is why when the Shen'dralar highborne return, there are some night elves amongst the Kaldorei that take up their ancient heritage again. Not every highborne left with Darth'remar. The Zin'Azshari ones mostly did, but I would imagine not all did, and they would not be the only ones, there would be some that were fighting alongside Lord Ravencrest - also a nobleman himself and wasn't he quite close in line to the throne? I mean he's way up there, is not just some simple Lord. Like Elisande rebelled, and Darth'remar, and Totheldrin, and Farondis, and Ravencrest, not a few highborne turned against the evil of the Legion.

So it is still a possibility, and it's a subtle one most people will not realise.

So Tyrande returning to Suramar, she does so as High Priestess, already separated onto Elune. Things have changed since then. Tyrande for starters recently got married. Elisande obviously is aware of Malfurion or possibly Illidan, because she taunts Tyrande directly, whcih to me indicates she they know each other. Elisande says.. "our mutual friend" ...

another interesting possibility is if Tyrande was not the only pursuit of one of the Stormrage twins, could Elisande be an ex-of Malfurion? or Illidan? Won't be a first for a noble gal to fall head over heels over a wild or ambitious man. Malfurion would have the rebel counter-cultural vibe about him you know.

What caused Elisande to stand against the legion and Azshara despite the Night elven, and especially highborne adoration of her? It could have been strong values in the family, or discussions with her very own sister who would have tried to persuade her of the evil Azshara is uncovered or maybe it was in their upbringing that had the touch of the goddess despite Elisande's great arcane talent..or maybe it was time with Malfurion or Illidan and something in either twin that stirred her enough to respond.

What I do know that there is a potential story here, more interesting drama, and interaction, that would surprise us all.

[Orquitis]

If Tyrande was of a noble family it should have been said before. But if she's related to Elisande, then it would explain why she was called "a night elf princess" in warcraft 3 manual.

[Enthralled]

Not necessarily Enthralled, look a little closer. We aren't told Tyrande's family history, we feel the Stormrages aren't highborne because of how they are written, although there is a possibility that they may have been, and if they were, likely in the lower echelons, with Malfurion outright rejecting it, and Illidan pursuing sorcery - the thing is if they were highborne it should have been mentioned when they were covering Illidan.. so ti's likely they are not.

but not so with Tyrande - we have no such knowledge of. We know, because we are emphtically told that becoming a priestess you sever all ties. This would include ties to family, the highborne, the arcane, to nature etc, we are told as much that it is expected of all novices, you give up everything to serve the goddess.

Mace, she grew up playing with the Stormrage boys, running in the forests, learning to hunt and wield a bow. We do know of her parents -- she lost them at a young age, just like the Stormrage twins. None of this says "Highborne". Highborne considered themselves above everyone and separated themselves from the rest of night elf society. They focused exclusively on the arcane and would not have allowed one of their little girls to go romping around in the woods like Tyrande did. It would have been scandalous to them.

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If Tyrande was of a noble family it should have been said before. But if she's related to Elisande, then it would explain why she was called "a night elf princess" in warcraft 3 manual.

W3 manual account has been completely retconned.

[Deleted]

as simpletons and possible slave material. perfectly they should assassinate, thalyssra, venthir and the rest of thse leveler terrorists. reinforce aristocracy, or even drop in favour of absolute monarchy and then erect a new wall. but before they do it, they should catch as many lesser races as possible, slum'dorei of the trees included.

[Friendlyimmolation]

So it is still a possibility, and it's a subtle one most people will not realise.

There is a difference between story subtly, And things you come up with because you think it would be good idea.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Tyrande honestly wouldn't need any family relation with Elisande. If Blizzard even attempted to say so, it would be out of their butts. There isn't anything to point in that direction.