Windwalker & Brewmaster, how happy are you currently?

[Yhcti]

Hi all,

I'm just being a little curious on general thoughts on these specs.

Windwalkers Monks - how happy are you currently with the spec? I'm asking for a World Content, Raid and Mythic+ point of view. Does it seem you're pretty stable? From what I can see the spec seems great in all aspects, great mobility, single target seems fine and aoe/cleave looks amazing.

Brewmaster Monks - where are you all hiding???!! I mained this spec in MoP and WoD and found it more fun than any other tanking spec by a country mile. Is this still a viable tank? I'm assuming you're bottom of the list at the moment as I rarely see a BrM Monk in any group I'm in.. How do you cope with the above? World Content, Raids, Mythic+?

[Densalo]

Speaking from the experience of 5/7H EN and Mythic+7 dungeons I personally think we're in a great place. WW moreso than BrM honestly, but even BrM isn't bad.

WW - amazing cleave if you plan for pulls well, single target shines a lot once you get tornado strikes and transfer the power artifact talents. Some people may not realize, when using SEF your clones' abilities add to your SCK stacks as well, meaning you can get to 9-12 stacks pretty easy on trash packs and SCK spam for 1mil+ dps. Hell, even using it at 6+ yields crazy dps in most cases. I've had quite a few dps classes in mythic pugs ask me if we're going to get nerfed after seeing 1.5mil+ on bolstered trash. Just work on never letting your 8-stack buff fall off.

BrM - I run with a disc priest all the time, not ideal i know, but he agreed that i became a lot sturdier and smoother to heal when i stopped stacking haste and went for a more balanced, mastery/crit focused build. Ran M+5 and M+6 Eye of Azshara to test without many issues at all. BrM is definitely still viable, but like others have said we have to work harder to achieve the same results in most cases, while we shine in rare situations like Ursoc.

TLDR: Windwalker is great despite all the crying you see from fotm rerollers. BrM is viable and even strong in certain encounters, if you love it, play it. If you love the class but BrM isn't working out for you right now, give WW a shot and be patient. I'd be willing to bet BrM will see some sort of slight buff in the future.

Monk for life.

[Babylonius]

WW - I'm very happy.

[Statix]

Windwalker
Windwalker is great. You have single target burst and great substained AOE. The AOE burst was greatly nerfed, because Strike of the Windlord now deals less damage to any other target than the primary target, but it was justified. Monks are still great at many aspects of the game. Their mobility is awesome. It gives me a clear edge on any fight with movement involved, such as Cenarius. The build in AOE component in our single target rotation is great, because it makes switching between single target and multiple target very easy.

I do find myself waiting for Tiger Palm to become available quite often due to not having enough energy. The spec also feels rather week when Fists of Fury, Strike of the Windlord and Whirling Dragon Punch are on cooldown. Futhermore, substained AOE takes quite a bit of effort because you need to tag as many mobs as possible to buff Spinning Crane Kick.

Questing is a blast. I oneshot mobs with Strike of the Windlord. I'm still capable of pulling 5+ mobs and bursting them down. The healing orbs that spawn from mobs also help. Little to no downtime healing myself back up.

Brewmaster
I've only done heroics and have maybe 5 traits in the artifact, but still, Brewmaster feels very squishy and the rotation is meh. I feel that there's an AOE ability missing. I experienced that pulling a spread out pack of mobs is rather annoying, because there's really only two abilities we can use to do that and they have a cooldown. Sure, our artifact ability, but the cooldown on that is just too high. Also, my DPS seems rather weak.

I find myself using Healing Elixer and my brews quite often. Not sure if that's part of being a Monk, maybe it's just because I am used to Blood Death Knight, but it seems that I spend more time keeping myself from dying than with other tanks. I also think the 7 minute cooldown on Fortifying Brew is absolutely ridiculous.

It seems that WW is more effective at killing large packs of mobs, perhaps even elites, because you deal so much damage. Soloing a 15m health elite is impossible for me, as Brewmaster. Sure, I can't take it down as WW either, but I saw a Blood Death Knight take those down with ease, never dropping below 90% health.

[Densalo]

For BrM, if you're having issues with snap threat in dungeons don't be afraid to take RJW. It' amazing for 5 mans. Also don't be fooled by the 7min timer on fort brew. If you're using your abilities correctly it gets reduced to somewhere in the range of 3.5-4mins. And only having about 5 traits in the artifact is undoubtedly what's hurting your BrM experience more than anything else. OD trait makes you a god at 35% hp when soloing world elites.

[Nihilan]

BrM is a far more rare breed than it used to be. Rare enough that i was actually surprised to see one last night in a 5man Direbrew fight. I enjoy playing mine for WQ, but i would never consider tanking with it myself when my pally and my warrior feel so much more durable. The warrior is an indestructable brick wall, and the pally is a ranged artillery piece spamming massive Avenger shields at everything that so much as glances at him.

At 841 my BrM has no issues tanking any of the WQ warden bosses - but i have not tried any of the actual world bosses. Brew is fun to play mechanically, but to me it feels more like a DPS with delusions of grandeur than an actual tank spec.

[CParker1987]

I off-spec WW (MW main) and WW is the best I have seen in years. Very fluid imo.

[Aseara]

Overall, I'd say I'm quite happy. I can't really speak to PVP though. I have few minor quibbles. The range of our run speed buff. Seems strange to give us that bit of utility to limit it to 10 yards especially considering we have roll and FSK that will likely quickly outrange a DK or Lock for example thus limiting it's effectiveness. Also, I really feel like the roll/FSK bug should have been fixed by now. It's such a pain to die to mechanics because of a bug.

My only other minor quibble is with the level 100 talent. It was my understanding that the design philosophy was that active ability > passive in terms of effectiveness. However, Serenity outperforms WDP. But Serenity is just an active buff that gets rid of another more unique active buff. I just wish that WDP with SEF would be the higher performer on ST especially considering how it interacts with RSK and FoF. But I know that's just personal preference. Oh, and after the SotWL nerf I'd like it to apply the SCK buff on targets.

[Yhcti]

Speaking from the experience of 5/7H EN and Mythic+7 dungeons I personally think we're in a great place. WW moreso than BrM honestly, but even BrM isn't bad.

WW - amazing cleave if you plan for pulls well, single target shines a lot once you get tornado strikes and transfer the power artifact talents. Some people may not realize, when using SEF your clones' abilities add to your SCK stacks as well, meaning you can get to 9-12 stacks pretty easy on trash packs and SCK spam for 1mil+ dps. Hell, even using it at 6+ yields crazy dps in most cases. I've had quite a few dps classes in mythic pugs ask me if we're going to get nerfed after seeing 1.5mil+ on bolstered trash. Just work on never letting your 8-stack buff fall off.

BrM - I run with a disc priest all the time, not ideal i know, but he agreed that i became a lot sturdier and smoother to heal when i stopped stacking haste and went for a more balanced, mastery/crit focused build. Ran M+5 and M+6 Eye of Azshara to test without many issues at all. BrM is definitely still viable, but like others have said we have to work harder to achieve the same results in most cases, while we shine in rare situations like Ursoc.

TLDR: Windwalker is great despite all the crying you see from fotm rerollers. BrM is viable and even strong in certain encounters, if you love it, play it. If you love the class but BrM isn't working out for you right now, give WW a shot and be patient. I'd be willing to bet BrM will see some sort of slight buff in the future.

Monk for life.

Loving these replies!! I'm just picking my Monk up again from having not played it since MoP, I felt it was a bit "meh" in WoD, it was my main for majority of MoP and it was such an amazing class to play both WW, BrM and MW. Hoping it remains so (your comments claim WW is still great, which is music to me!) when I ding 110

[Raincrow]

As a WW main, I'll add that I agree with everyone. Windwalker is in a really good place right now. The SotWL nerf put us in a good but not overwhelming place for AOE, and even taught WW how to put Spinning Crane Kick back on our bars. Single target damage is really good, and we are currently enjoying a healthy place in that space.

Brewmaster is...interesting. It's in a weird place. It's very friendly to heal, with smooth damage intake and the ability to purge a large amount of damage from massive hits, which makes BrM great in fights that require taking very big swings. A well timed Fortifying Brew and/or Zen Meditation along with a Purify and a good healer can allow BrM to take hits that no other tank could manage. But Brewmaster completely lacks the self-sustain of...well, essentially every other tank in the game. We have a single heal with a cast time, and an orb that drops only after you've already taken massive damage (multiple of 100% of your health unmitigated), so any truly challenging tank content can't be soloed, because a BrM loses the war of attrition. They are a tank that HAS to be healed to be successful, whereas many other specs have "Oh crap!" buttons that allow them to manage a few moments of hectic raid healing, for instance.

[Deleted]

as a brewmaster monk I'm very happy, i love the class the feel. some of the game play feels a bit disjointed but that's not enough to put me off. I wish we were slightly stronger on the dmg reduction side. but even then i keep getting told how easy i am to heal so I'm not too upset. I had no real problems with much content apart from M+ chain pulling where i believe that was more me doing it wrong.

as for WW it seems a nice off spec i hardly use it tho tbh...

[Powell]

I had decided to play my WW and Outlaw alongside eachother to see wich one i would main.
Eventually I choose to play Outlaw instead of Windwalker.

This isn't because WW is bad, but i found that everything is abit too natural. If you're really into tryharding, i found WWs to have very little to offer in terms of min-maxing potential. Everything flows really nicely the way it does, even the mastery and hit combo required little thought, wich made it boring to me after a while.

Outlaw is far more chaotic, and while it may not appeal to alot of people, theres a certain kind of involvement dealing with an Outlaw Rogue that Windwalkers just seem to miss.

[Aseara]

Building up to a 5 point finisher to roll for a buff is the most unsatisfying mechanic they've ever come up with. Outlaw is boring as hell.

[Raincrow]

I had decided to play my WW and Outlaw alongside eachother to see wich one i would main.
Eventually I choose to play Outlaw instead of Windwalker.

This isn't because WW is bad, but i found that everything is abit too natural. If you're really into tryharding, i found WWs to have very little to offer in terms of min-maxing potential. Everything flows really nicely the way it does, even the mastery and hit combo required little thought, wich made it boring to me after a while.

Outlaw is far more chaotic, and while it may not appeal to alot of people, theres a certain kind of involvement dealing with an Outlaw Rogue that Windwalkers just seem to miss.

To be honest, I like that the game offers both types of specs. There are specs that have, while not SIMPLE rotations, smooth priority systems that allow for good damage potential, but they sort of come "pre-optimized". WW is very close to this, and only in a few situations (AOE, Serenity v. WDP) does the class reward optimization. With a little work, it's possible to play a WW within a few percentage of the top-most players, allowing differences to be made up mostly by consumable decisions, proc timing, etc, rather than class gameplay.

Then there are specs where it seems like there are ALWAYS a few percentage points that you can squeeze out. Look at Shadow priest, a spec that wavers all over the place on the warcraft logs, but only begins to climb near the top in the upper 95th+ percentile, where the best players are. I'm glad specs like that exist, too. Enjoy your Outlaw, my friend.

[LoKSET]

Then there are specs where it seems like there are ALWAYS a few percentage points that you can squeeze out. Look at Shadow priest, a spec that wavers all over the place on the warcraft logs, but only begins to climb near the top in the upper 95th+ percentile, where the best players are. I'm glad specs like that exist, too. Enjoy your Outlaw, my friend.

Arcane mage is even more all over the place. Just look at it - near the bottom at 50th percentile. At the top at 99 -just...

[Deleted]

I leveled as WW, I'm main spec MW and found myself recently playing a lot of BrM for fun/WQ elites etc;

I've done mythic 5 & 6+ as WW/MW & BrM and cleared 7/7 and 1/7 EM (MW)

WW is just so much cleave fun even post aoe burst "nurf" <3 SCK so we're a shoe in for any mythic + really as trash dps specifically with Teeming is key. However I did 3 x 4-6+ yesterday as BrM and we are so sturdy!

I went for a mixed gear set of haste/mastery and felt you only really run into issues on large pulls with 1-2 brews down, then you just stun and kite a tad. But literally over 3 instances I only had 2 oh shit moments and only died on a group wipe to boss/trash mechanics killing members.

The only thing that is odd is getting used to the playstyle, a 7min cd is utterly nuts in my eyes. I do miss guard but weaving your healing elixirs to keep yourself lit seems part and parcel now. Also I tend to run rushing jade wind instead of SD for mythics +, consistent good aoe for trash.

All in all, I find Monk as a whole, very viable and anyone claiming otherwise needs to get off whatever nonsense posts they are reading.

[Yhcti]

Actually sounds like you guys are enjoying Monk still, I love this! I'm level 106 at the moment mainspeccing Windwalker but i'll offspec Brewmaster like my DH. It's handy having a tank spec for anything the DPS spec can't handle...!

Good to know WW and BrM are fine in Mythic+ also as that's where most of my time will be filled outside of world quests. I saw the Sotw nerf, it was just for secondary targets right? so for the initial target itll stil hit for its 4500%? that's fine by me.

[Deleted]

23 WW 17 MW 14 BM

WW and MW play very fine but BM... I can't really enjoy BM, with RJW it is ok, without it ..... managing the brews is not fun, don't really see why they made 2 brews that share charges. Purifying Brew would be enough and the other turned and tuned into passive.

[LoKSET]

WW is pretty good. I've always been a WW main and even after the changes enjoy it quite a bit. Brewmaster however even as an offspec I don't like as before. Maybe it's because I am trying to get the most of the combo talent, but it feels as though you juggle a whole bunch of abilities just to do slightly worse compared to other tanks. But it's simply the more interesting talent, HT doesn't appeal to me at all. MW however I have never used but since triple spec is now a thing I tried it a bit and actually liked it. I have never healed before which is why I have to setup some addons in order to be more effective and then I'll definitely try some dungeons using both the BoK talent and Rising Thunder since this seems the most interesting to me.

[Trinich]

Speaking from the experience of 5/7H EN and Mythic+7 dungeons I personally think we're in a great place. WW moreso than BrM honestly, but even BrM isn't bad.

WW - amazing cleave if you plan for pulls well, single target shines a lot once you get tornado strikes and transfer the power artifact talents. Some people may not realize, when using SEF your clones' abilities add to your SCK stacks as well, meaning you can get to 9-12 stacks pretty easy on trash packs and SCK spam for 1mil+ dps. Hell, even using it at 6+ yields crazy dps in most cases. I've had quite a few dps classes in mythic pugs ask me if we're going to get nerfed after seeing 1.5mil+ on bolstered trash. Just work on never letting your 8-stack buff fall off.

BrM - I run with a disc priest all the time, not ideal i know, but he agreed that i became a lot sturdier and smoother to heal when i stopped stacking haste and went for a more balanced, mastery/crit focused build. Ran M+5 and M+6 Eye of Azshara to test without many issues at all. BrM is definitely still viable, but like others have said we have to work harder to achieve the same results in most cases, while we shine in rare situations like Ursoc.

TLDR: Windwalker is great despite all the crying you see from fotm rerollers. BrM is viable and even strong in certain encounters, if you love it, play it. If you love the class but BrM isn't working out for you right now, give WW a shot and be patient. I'd be willing to bet BrM will see some sort of slight buff in the future.

Monk for life.

I don't want to derail, but is there a video or something out there showing a good way to weave abilities to keep it up? And does chi burst (the ball you throw, not sure if that's the right name) if it hits every mob, does it give you all those stacks, or do you have to individually attack to get stacks? I was reading over on Babylonius' site, but I didn't get a good feel for how to manage those things. I just started playing monk a little while ago, and it feels really good, I just don't have a clear understanding of the more nuanced mechanics of it.

Aside from that, I leveled WW, and it was great. I have a 110 war that I leveled as fury, 104 dh as havoc, and 103 mage as fire, and the monk was the most fun by far.