Warlocks in mythic+ post buff

[corebit]

I'm very interested to see how Affliction and Demo performs after the hotfix. I'm running Destro and Just started pushing with my guild up to +4 and I feel I'm doing just passable damage compared to my DH and monk guild mates who absolutely wreck the trash mobs.

[Count Zero]

I'm very interested to see how Affliction and Demo performs after the hotfix. I'm running Destro and Just started pushing with my guild up to +4 and I feel I'm doing just passable damage compared to my DH and monk guild mates who absolutely wreck the trash mobs.

Maintain Destro / Afflic for cleave / aoe builds, respectively. Destro cleave build is also a passable single-target build, and many boss fights have adds anyway, so ...

And I've found Afflic aoe build isn't toooo terrible single target. But either way you'll need to tailor to which dungeon you do. Maybe we need more setup than some (most?) other classes for mythic+ but especially with these buffs we'll be in a very good place for them. Afflic aoe was already insane. I can see Afflic winding up being the most-desired spec for many dungeons in higher mythic levels

[Jondar]

Backdraft over Shadowburn?

Yes. Shard generation is fine, and BD + FnB incin is heaps of damage with Gsac. Shadowburn is only really usefull when the mobs are almost dead.

- - - Updated - - -

Instant ROF is amazing. Hitting upwards of 800k if shard generation is nice

[xuros]

I've been doing them as demo and ive been keeping up with the other dps on trash with implosion. With the buff I think it will do even better.

[ThePhantombox]

Unless a warlock doubles a melee's damage on AOE I'm never going to invite one over a good ww/dh/outlaw rogue/uh dk.
The utility that those specs bring(Aoe stuns, single target stuns, sap, interrupts, INSTANT CAST BATTLE RES) are far too important and useful, even if a lock does comparable damage. Soulstone needs to not have a cast time in 2016.

Why does warlock not have an interrupt btw? Makes no sense. Only DPS class without an interrupt, and felhunter doesn't count because you can't use it in dungeons since you need grimoire of sac.

The class is a disaster.

Oh my brain

>Interrupt for aff
>Stun for demo
>Dispel for destro(!)
>two aoe stuns
>Banish (This shit is actually crazy good, it doesn't break on damage, works on a ton of shit in dungeons currently, and fyi, mobs banished don't get buffs from bolstering)
>Enslave demon (Effective insta-kill, dps increase, 12mil+ shield)

And seriously? Double damage!? I think the only one who has a "bias" against warlocks is you. I don't want to play the whole "how old are you" card, but that's one of the most naive and immature things I've seen here in months.

For the sake of fairness, I'll bring up the one problem I do have, and that's mobility, not being able to move between packs quickly, although I am an engineer so I can make myself a fix.

[ShiyoKozuki]

Banish not being bolstered is actually pretty good.
Affliction has an interrupt but destro doesn't unless you use felhunter but then you give up grimoire of sac.
Destro/affl have one stun, and it's a DPS loss to cast it unlike monk/dh's.
Enslave demon is very situational.
Soulstone has a cast time.
Healthstones are just free HP pots.
Warlock utility is subpar still.

[Rykun]

I did +10 COS last week, I did all the dungeons as Destruction since you can't mass aoe with bolstering.

You just do a single target spec setup ut take Cataclysm for ig pulls, and wreak havoc obviously I did service over sac for more meaningful dps. Anything more than that loses you way too much oss damage.

[KrazyK923]

Unless a warlock doubles a melee's damage on AOE I'm never going to invite one over a good ww/dh/outlaw rogue/uh dk.
The utility that those specs bring(Aoe stuns, single target stuns, sap, interrupts, INSTANT CAST BATTLE RES) are far too important and useful, even if a lock does comparable damage. Soulstone needs to not have a cast time in 2016.

Why does warlock not have an interrupt btw? Makes no sense. Only DPS class without an interrupt, and felhunter doesn't count because you can't use it in dungeons since you need grimoire of sac.

The class is a disaster.

Basically this.

The buffs are ok but when everybody is buffed as much or more than the rest of us, we still end up sucking compared to the rest.

They finally did it. Made me just quit my 12 year old character.

[Polyamorous]

Unless a warlock doubles a melee's damage on AOE I'm never going to invite one over a good ww/dh/outlaw rogue/uh dk.
The utility that those specs bring(Aoe stuns, single target stuns, sap, interrupts, INSTANT CAST BATTLE RES) are far too important and useful, even if a lock does comparable damage. Soulstone needs to not have a cast time in 2016.

Why does warlock not have an interrupt btw? Makes no sense. Only DPS class without an interrupt, and felhunter doesn't count because you can't use it in dungeons since you need grimoire of sac.

The class is a disaster.

Spot on, but the blizz apologists will tell you to improve your own play before asking for buffs or utility. Warlocks are gutted this expansion. No utility, average dps, uninteresting rotation.

[Turturin the Warlock]

[QUOTE=Jondar;42529721]Yes. Shard generation is fine, and BD + FnB incin is heaps of damage with Gsac. Shadowburn is only really usefull when the mobs are almost dead.

[COLOR="#417394"][SIZE=1]

cataclysm is a pretty strong way to guarantee shard generation. with castable RoF you'd end up capped a lot and then starved after 18 seconds, but with instant RoF (been at work haven't tried it) I'd expect it will be very strong synergy.

and Reverse Entropy just isn't that good a talent now. the cast time reduction is also reduced by haste, so this talent gets worse as gear scales. shard generation as gear scales is also better, so more time casting spenders and less time on stuff that costs mana = less life taps.

so for me on dungeons with lots of AoE I've started to run BD/cataclysm/F&B/Sacrifice. I'm willing to use either Soul Conduit or Wreak Havoc depending on the dungeon's boss fights and pull variety.

But all that said, I don't actually think there's any one right answer. Group comps vary a lot, so the strengths of your comp vary a lot too. Affixes matter a lot. EU got teeming last week (lol), US got bolstering (which is just fucking way harder). If you do a +10 and get tyrannical, you're going to care a lot more about boss dps. If you get fortified you're going to care a lot more about trash and CC.

So yeah, claims of there being a single right answer all the time are sort of.....Trumpish.

[ShiyoKozuki]

On four targets at ilvl 791 and no 3rd relic FnB adds 15 DPS to my 220 DPS (4 targets) for me. Seems bad.

[Jondar]

quote got messed up

Cataclysm is a strong way to guarantee you only doing good numbers on every other pull while helping gimp your already average single target. It's also only good for a chunk of damage - which, with the modifiers in Mythic+, is not as good of an option as more sustained damage (that Reverse Entropy helps provide). Casting Immolate is very easy with Havoc, so if you're using Cataclysm to spread immolate.. well..

With the way we itemize right now, Cataclysm isn't worth it, nor is Shadowburn (which the person who quoted me was asking about). Reverse Entropy is a great talent for Mythics, for both single target and AoE/cleave situations. Combined with Backdraft, it's even better.


It's not "trumpish" (whatever that means) to suggest that there is a 'best' general use talent setup for Mythic+'s. I sincerely don't think there is a better options for Warlocks - I've tried them all, and across many different Mythic+ dungeons/levels, and none of them provide as good of sustained damage in both 2 target, 3 target, AoE, and Single Target situations. I'd like to see your numbers with other specs that you think are better (and not just right when a Cataclysm lands :P)



also, why are people saying we don't have interrupts? Of the ones commonly used, Fear can be used to stop casts, Shadowfury is an AoE stun, and Banish is a situational CC.

[Unlockmyhrt]

350K-400K is definitively a very impressive number for a pack. That is about 150-200K less than the ilvl 845 DH and ilvl 847 rogue are doing I run with.

What is your ilvl?

854 10Chars

[Turturin the Warlock]

Cataclysm is a strong way to guarantee you only doing good numbers on every other pull while helping gimp your already average single target. It's also only good for a chunk of damage - which, with the modifiers in Mythic+, is not as good of an option as more sustained damage (that Reverse Entropy helps provide). Casting Immolate is very easy with Havoc, so if you're using Cataclysm to spread immolate.. well..

With the way we itemize right now, Cataclysm isn't worth it, nor is Shadowburn (which the person who quoted me was asking about). Reverse Entropy is a great talent for Mythics, for both single target and AoE/cleave situations. Combined with Backdraft, it's even better.


It's not "trumpish" (whatever that means) to suggest that there is a 'best' general use talent setup for Mythic+'s. I sincerely don't think there is a better options for Warlocks - I've tried them all, and across many different Mythic+ dungeons/levels, and none of them provide as good of sustained damage in both 2 target, 3 target, AoE, and Single Target situations. I'd like to see your numbers with other specs that you think are better (and not just right when a Cataclysm lands :P)



also, why are people saying we don't have interrupts? Of the ones commonly used, Fear can be used to stop casts, Shadowfury is an AoE stun, and Banish is a situational CC.

I think about it instance by instance, pulls by pull, boss by boss, depending on my group comp, and depending on affixes. I don't believe in one size fits all when the challenging aspects come in different shapes and sizes depending on circumstances. To me, nuance is important.

Its clear you didn't get my point (I don't mean that antagonistically - I prob didn't explain well) b/c you are asking me what other specs I think are better. I don't think any are better or worse. That's my point. I think almost every spec combination can be the best choice depending on the situation. I'm not a binary thinker.

[Jondar]

I think about it instance by instance, pulls by pull, boss by boss, depending on my group comp, and depending on affixes. I don't believe in one size fits all when the challenging aspects come in different shapes and sizes depending on circumstances. To me, nuance is important.

Its clear you didn't get my point (I don't mean that antagonistically - I prob didn't explain well) b/c you are asking me what other specs I think are better. I don't think any are better or worse. That's my point. I think almost every spec combination can be the best choice depending on the situation. I'm not a binary thinker.

Why are you thinking about it pull by pull and boss by boss when you can't change your talents in the dungeon? I think you're trying to overthink something that doesn't need to be overthought - general use builds are important, and I'm curious what you think needs to be shifted around on a pull by pull, boss by boss basis in Mythic+? AoE is always going to be important no matter the comp, and having single target is important no matter the comp. So I'm curious why you think it's that complicated.

[Twilightcrescent]

854 10Chars

At ilvl 850+ it is relatively easy to pull 350k+ damage using Wreak Havoc on packs if you havoc one, tab-immolate through the pack then continue your rotation on one of the non-havoc'ed targets. You don't even need RoF or Cataclysm. I haven't specced AOE at all and I've been doing Mythic+ dungeons like that.

I'm ilvl 857 right now 30% haste, only 18% crit 45% mastery but I'm working on the crit and have a ring I can swap to if I can get more haste on my other items. My gear isn't enchanted yet for the most part but I do have a feretory of souls which helps with shard generation. I'm on my guild's progressive raiding team (we downed normal Xavius last week and dipped our toe into heroic)

I used to do pretty good dps on packs using just cataclysm and RoF at lower gear levels and even the long casting time on RoF. Basically I'd open with cataclysm once the tank had the stuff drawn in around him (hopefully I wouldn't miss!) then RoF. The immolates on everything would keep my shards generating. I'd throw up another RoF on top of the last one once I had the shards for it and keep pew pew pew on one of the targets with a few havocs thrown in for good measure. I could often beat melee aoe that way doing 400-800k on big packs. If your immolates drop though, you have to put them back up or you won't have enough shard generation to keep RoF going. It doesn't take that long to tab-immolate through them all. Tab will cycle through everything you're looking at with your camera.

Pro Tip: If you have trouble with Tab selecting stuff you don't want to hit then adjust your camera to just look at the mobs you are interested in. As long as their nameplates are not 'visible' to your camera, tab shouldn't select them.

And for anyone having issues with 150k damage in dungeons, use your havoc for heaven sake! Double that sucker up to 300k or so easy by using havoc. I can do 350-400k dps on most encounters in a dungeon. I have a macro I wrote to help me keep track of my havoc target. It sets it to my focus target, takes a mouse-over target and I just have to tap it again to put a fresh havoc on my focus. When I hit a new encounter in the dungeon I select a target and havoc it before anything else, then I quickly tab off it and start wailing on one of his buddies while I figure out what I'm going to do next. I was killing the meter this morning with a few guildies and a pug hunter we'd picked up to do a mythic in Violet Hold. I would venture to say that havoc is better than 'pack' aoe in there anyway because a lot of times the mobs trickle in. You can have 2 of them dead before another one spawns.

Now I do notice I tend to be challenged more on the meters when it comes to ST damage, but that's partly because I like to spec wreak havoc in there except on raids. I never use shadowburn because it doesn't seem worth it (except maybe in pvp).. I'm kind of addicted to the speed offered by Backdraft and Reverse Entropy which leads to more mobility and survivability (without sacrificing DPS). I may try to play around with some of the other ones more eventually.

- - - Updated - - -

Cataclysm is a strong way to guarantee you only doing good numbers on every other pull while helping gimp your already average single target. It's also only good for a chunk of damage - which, with the modifiers in Mythic+, is not as good of an option as more sustained damage (that Reverse Entropy helps provide). Casting Immolate is very easy with Havoc, so if you're using Cataclysm to spread immolate.. well..

With the way we itemize right now, Cataclysm isn't worth it, nor is Shadowburn (which the person who quoted me was asking about). Reverse Entropy is a great talent for Mythics, for both single target and AoE/cleave situations. Combined with Backdraft, it's even better.


It's not "trumpish" (whatever that means) to suggest that there is a 'best' general use talent setup for Mythic+'s. I sincerely don't think there is a better options for Warlocks - I've tried them all, and across many different Mythic+ dungeons/levels, and none of them provide as good of sustained damage in both 2 target, 3 target, AoE, and Single Target situations. I'd like to see your numbers with other specs that you think are better (and not just right when a Cataclysm lands :P)



also, why are people saying we don't have interrupts? Of the ones commonly used, Fear can be used to stop casts, Shadowfury is an AoE stun, and Banish is a situational CC.

I kind of agree with you on this. I don't like using Cataclysm because it might work well for one fight only to be unavailable the next. You also have the added problem that it offers a false sense of 'done-ness' in the sense that you put that big thing out there and then you might forget to re-up your immolates after they expire (which are critical). In a very long aoe fight it's useless because the initial damage from it will get diluted by the later RoF dwindling out.

Shadowburn is also lousy. One thing I hated in WoD was having to hunt for shadowburn targets to keep embers up. Screw that, keep your immolates up. This worked well for me even before I got a feretory. Shadowburn, to me, is a pvp ability. You can't stand there and cast at player characters because they'll stun/interrupt/kill you before you can get anything off so instant-casts are a must. In PvE though, put that stuff away.

[Deleted]

At ilvl 850+ it is relatively easy to pull 350k+ damage using Wreak Havoc on packs if you havoc one, tab-immolate through the pack then continue your rotation on one of the non-havoc'ed targets. You don't even need RoF or Cataclysm. I haven't specced AOE at all and I've been doing Mythic+ dungeons like that.

I'm ilvl 857 right now 30% haste, only 18% crit 45% mastery but I'm working on the crit and have a ring I can swap to if I can get more haste on my other items. My gear isn't enchanted yet for the most part but I do have a feretory of souls which helps with shard generation. I'm on my guild's progressive raiding team (we downed normal Xavius last week and dipped our toe into heroic)

I'm ilvl 857 right now 30% haste, only 18% crit 45% mastery but I'm working on the crit and have a ring I can swap to if I can get more haste on my other items. My gear isn't enchanted yet for the most part but I do have a feretory of souls which helps with shard generation.

My gear isn't enchanted yet for the most part but I do have a feretory of souls

Oh no. My heart can't take it anymore :<

[Turturin the Warlock]

Why are you thinking about it pull by pull and boss by boss when you can't change your talents in the dungeon? I think you're trying to overthink something that doesn't need to be overthought - general use builds are important, and I'm curious what you think needs to be shifted around on a pull by pull, boss by boss basis in Mythic+? AoE is always going to be important no matter the comp, and having single target is important no matter the comp. So I'm curious why you think it's that complicated.

Because I'd rather not wipe on things like a fortified scorpion at end of nelths lair because my group didn't have enough single target when the aoe pulls in that instance are a joke.

I'd rather not wipe to a tyrannical hymdall because we all wanted to Aoe the packs after hymdall.

I'd have heavy aoe focus on bolstering in black rook hold, because aoe packs are more likely to wipe you than anything else in there.

If I have two spriests in my group I'm much more likely to go full aoe than if I have two BM hunters.

How many more examples would you like me to provide?. You may call it over thinking, but to me it's just thinking.

[Twilightcrescent]

Oh no. My heart can't take it anymore :<

My heart nearly died when it dropped on my first kill in Emerald Nightmare. I wish you all the best luck on legendaries.

[Deleted]

My heart nearly died when it dropped on my first kill in Emerald Nightmare. I wish you all the best luck on legendaries.

thanks. I take all the luck that people wish me with open arms.

"I'd rather be lucky than smart" <3