First presidential debate - September 26: Trump vs Hillary

[satimy]

She was great last night - not sure which debate you watched. Trump started well, Clinton started quiet and reserved. Clinton ramped up strong with good attacks. Trump, about 20 minutes in, forgot all his debate advice and just went off the rails with every question - including rudely interrupting her. He was awful. Clinton won that debate solidly.

Nah Clinton looked robotic and fake as shit, trump wasn't good but Clinton was dreadful

[Elegiac]

Okay well cast your vote for the banker's candidate and you'll be so poor in 20 years you'll have no other option but to exclusively shop there

Unlikely, the cost of living adjustment I get from general schedule pay is more than adequate to maintain a Costco membership.

Oh and a side note, under excessive regulations and obamacare, employees are receiving even more financial abuse largely in part because these companies have no other choice, it's either screw over the little guy or go out of business

Companies that small are exempt from the relevant ACA provisions, but nice try.

Yet another reason I support single payer rather than private healthcare.

[Zolaris192]

Lol.

Sticking the word fact onto the end of sentence doesn't make something a fact.

Here let me show you what I mean -

I'm going to mine the moon for cheese. Fact.

Doesn't mean its a fact that I'm going to mine the moon for cheese.

And that's all you are doing. But I'm not surprised that you are unable to debate like an adult and provide proof for statements you are claiming as fact. You are a Trumpist after all.

Wow you are obviously very inexperienced in the real world lol

[Elegiac]

Nah Clinton looked robotic and fake as shit

Is that what you call being prepared and speaking in an educated manner?

- - - Updated - - -

Wow you are obviously very inexperienced in the real world lol

Where is this "real world" that conservatives keep banging on about?

[alexw]

Are you even aware of the reason most companies operate over seas?

Yes. The average wage in these places is a fraction of that in the US. For example in China the average worker wage is roughly 1/10 of that of the US.

Tax rates are irrelevant.

[Annoying]

Regulations and excessive taxes holding America back? Fact

Fluctuations in global temperatures throughout history? Fact

Where is my opinion buried in my above paragraph? I can't find it

That second part is a fact. What you said previously wasn't the same as what you just said.
You said "global warming, a phenomenon that has fluctuated throughout earth's entire existence". That's not a fact. The natural temperature fluctuations have very little to do with the phenomenon of global warming. We have a gigantic amount of proof that humans are causing it and thus need to be regulated to prevent a very serious worldwide ecological disaster.

[Elegiac]

Yes. The average wage in these places is a fraction of that in the US. For example in China the average worker wage is roughly 1/10 of that of the US.

Tax rates are irrelevant.

And just to preempt the argument that 'minimum wage regulations drive jobs overseas' - if they weren't sending them overseas, they'd be automating.

[Zolaris192]

That second part is a fact. What you said previously wasn't the same as what you just said.
You said "global warming, a phenomenon that has fluctuated throughout earth's entire existence". That's not a fact. The natural temperature fluctuations have very little to do with the phenomenon of global warming. We have a gigantic amount of proof that humans are causing it and thus need to be regulated to prevent a very serious worldwide ecological disaster.

Another example of indoctrinated youth spouting off exactly what the global elites want you to believe

While you are being carbon taxed into oblivion they will continue to fly around in their jets and live in excess while laughing at you lol

[Elegiac]

Another example of indoctrinated youth spouting off exactly what the global elites want you to believe

The global elites want me to believe the businesses and industries -they- own and run are causing a global climactic problem?

[alexw]

Wow you are obviously very inexperienced in the real world lol

Again unable to back up claims you make and start onto personal attacks in a childish manner as a way to try to discredit me. How old are you?

[Dextroden]

And just to preempt the argument that 'minimum wage regulations drive jobs overseas' - if they weren't sending them overseas, they'd be automating.

Yes. Neither side gives a shit about jobs coming back. Both sides are just going to give lip service. Both sides will tell you you go to school if the factory closes or gets replaced by a factory that only needs five people.

[Yvaelle]

And just to preempt the argument that 'minimum wage regulations drive jobs overseas' - if they weren't sending them overseas, they'd be automating.

^ The only jobs outsourcing takes are the jobs of good, hard-working, honest robots.

Outsourcing was pretty much complete by the start of this millennia, all jobs that can be outsourced - now are outsourced. What remains tends to be jobs that have to be done in the developed world.

Example: It would be cheaper for taxi companies to hire Indians in India to drive taxis in India, but - they wouldn't be able to serve the US market if they were living in India - so they have to hire local (within North America) drivers to operate taxis here. It would be cheaper to hire Chinese coal workers to produce coal, but Chinese coal workers can't simultaneously live and work from China - while extracting coal from a mine in the US - so US mines need US workers.

So there are still lots of blue collar jobs, there are even still manufacturing jobs - but the idea that they're sending our jobs overseas hasn't really been true for 15 years: because by then outsourcing was already complete.

[Breccia]

Yes. Neither side gives a shit about jobs coming back. Both sides are just going to give lip service. Both sides will tell you you go to school if the factory closes or gets replaced by a factory that only needs five people.

Trump has made cutting the department of education part of his platform. So, even if this statement was true, it's still a reason not to vote for Trump.

Oh right, and Clinton's on record as saying she wants tuition dropped at trade schools. So a point in her favor, again, if what you said was true.

[alexw]

Yes. Neither side gives a shit about jobs coming back. Both sides are just going to give lip service. Both sides will tell you you go to school if the factory closes or gets replaced by a factory that only needs five people.

Right now yes. But the democrats are at least somewhat closer to admitting the truth. The republicans are in complete flat out denial and believe the jobs that have been automated away can be brought back.

[Endus]

^ The only jobs outsourcing takes are the jobs of good, hard-working, honest robots.

Outsourcing was pretty much complete by the start of this millennia, all jobs that can be outsourced - now are outsourced. What remains tends to be jobs that have to be done in the developed world.

Example: It would be cheaper for taxi companies to hire Indians in India to drive taxis in India, but - they wouldn't be able to serve the US market if they were living in India - so they have to hire local (within North America) drivers to operate taxis here. It would be cheaper to hire Chinese coal workers to produce coal, but Chinese coal workers can't simultaneously live and work from China - while extracting coal from a mine in the US - so US mines need US workers.

So there are still lots of blue collar jobs, there are even still manufacturing jobs - but the idea that they're sending our jobs overseas hasn't really been true for 15 years: because by then outsourcing was already complete.

The silliest thing about the whole outsourcing issue is that Trump's entire focus was on low-end manufacturing jobs. These are not "good jobs". That's largely WHY they have been outsourced. The USA, along with pretty much every developed nation, moved beyond being a manufacturing-based economy back in the middle of the 20th Century. Service and knowledge sectors have been the primary sectors since that point. Bringing back manufacturing isn't a "fix" to anything. The USA needs new good jobs, high-end jobs, that require skilled employees to fill them.

[Dextroden]

Trump has made cutting the department of education part of his platform. So, even if this statement was true, it's still a reason not to vote for Trump.

Oh right, and Clinton's on record as saying she wants tuition dropped at trade schools. So a point in her favor, again, if what you said was true.

You mean the trade market being overfilled and causing a repeat of people with bachelor's flipping burgers. Only, the burger flipping jobs will be gone.

Lip service and nothing else. Forgetting everybody isn't made for school helps that.

[Elegiac]

The silliest thing about the whole outsourcing issue is that Trump's entire focus was on low-end manufacturing jobs. These are not "good jobs". That's largely WHY they have been outsourced. The USA, along with pretty much every developed nation, moved beyond being a manufacturing-based economy back in the middle of the 20th Century. Service and knowledge sectors have been the primary sectors since that point. Bringing back manufacturing isn't a "fix" to anything. The USA needs new good jobs, high-end jobs, that require skilled employees to fill them.

Why do you think the demographics that support Trump do so? What we are seeing here is the political swan song of the working class white man.

[Annoying]

Another example of indoctrinated youth spouting off exactly what the global elites want you to believe

While you are being carbon taxed into oblivion they will continue to fly around in their jets and live in excess while laughing at you lol

I had absolutely no idea that a huge amount of scientists were the "global elite". I also didn't know you could still qualify as a "youth" at 31.
We have the obvious data. We have an absolutely huge amount of peer-reviewed research that has been thoroughly tested thousands of times over. Unless the global elite has somehow managed to get thousands of scientists from over 80 countries to lie to us, there's absolutely no sense in any kind of denialism.

[Elegiac]

You mean the trade market being overfilled and causing a repeat of people with bachelor's flipping burgers. Only, the burger flipping jobs will be gone.

Lip service and nothing else. Forgetting everybody isn't made for school helps that.

Actually paying people sufficient wages to generate demand also helps.

[Bollocks]

He was pointing out that that is the problem, that Hilary's idea of "higher taxes" will just be circumvented by the people already avoiding it in the first place

I run a business and while I don't practice what trump does (we don't have that level of capital) I can tell you the excessive regulations and taxes in the name of global warming, a phenomenon that has fluctuated throughout earth's entire existence, is killing the United States economy and potential for growth

The man knows business and understands that what Hillary is saying is unrealistic and ineffective, a trend that much of Washington follows nowadays

This is dumb. While I agree that taxes on buisness are dumb, regulations to fight climate change or pollution in general aren't. Because the costs that stem from them are much higher. Although we shouldn't go full Europe.