1. #2461
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    yes, its not the fault of illegal immigration, but because business hire those people.
    That's some primo grade 'perspective' going on.
    Well, yes. If businesses didn't offer jobs at below minimum wage, undocumented immigrants wouldn't take them. Crack down on those businesses and there would be less incentive to immigrate.

  2. #2462
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dren The Black View Post
    Yes, and no. You cut out the source of cheap disposable labor, and you force companies to raise wages to attract legal workers.
    Are you sure they won't switch to corn production subsidies as many have done after Reagan's farm aid solution? Because that's what they actually do...

    How about you actually punish employers for doing it, so illegals have no jobs to come here for? You know, when cheese attracts mice, unless it's inside a mouse trap... You should really put it out of reach of mice...

    No... it doesn't. You're literally telling me why what I said is correct.
    On what planet does amnesty removing undocumented labor, assist in business seeking undocumented labor? Because there aren't enough and business need to encourage more to come? There is a reason Trump points at the people and not corporations like him self, who creates the demand by employing them.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  3. #2463
    I honestly watched the debate and tried to be a neutral as possible.

    Trump painted himself as a terrible scrooge who does anything to save himself money, and cares little about others. He didn't deny about his businesses going bankrupt, he didn't deny about not paying people who did work for him, and he boasted about not paying any federal taxes.

    In the latter half the debate, Trump also seemed to be talking gibberish and nonsense (probably tired?), and then ironically complained that Hillary didn't have stamina.

    Trump also painted an extremely grim and negative image of the black communities; it's pretty clear he's racist and it would be of no surprise if he did deny blacks into his hotels or did not pay them for work appropriately.

    While I thought it was amusing how poorly Trump was answering questions towards the end (like is this really a candidate?), I still thought it was in bad taste Hillary to smile and laugh at time.

    I don't think Hillary's answers seemed scripted, rather than she was prepared. Trump too did seem to make some preparation, since he keep mentioning key states he needed to win electoral votes in. I don't think Trumps poor performance at the end was ill preparation, but rather a sign of his stamina, since his logical reasoning completely vanished. Kind of how one feels after a long hour and 30 minute Test. He was definitely more convincing during the first half of the debate.

  4. #2464
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Duval View Post
    it would be of no surprise if he did deny blacks into his hotels
    Is this a thing he is accused of? Because I've never heard it and that would be pretty illegal.

  5. #2465
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    South Park is cute and all but gross oversimplification only appeals to the lazy and small minded.
    Actually it's about simplifying things so it's more understandable/relatable, it does not mean the one making the gross oversimplification or using it is simple minded. It's sad you couldn't understand that, should I simplify it for you, or was this too complicated to understand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    You want a dishonest and disrespectable candidate?
    damn you auto-correct *shakes fist* should have proof read...

  6. #2466
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Actually it's about simplifying things so it's more understandable/relatable, it does not mean the one making the gross oversimplification or using it is simple minded. It's sad you couldn't understand that, should I simplify it for you, or was this too complicated to understand?
    Simplifying things doesn't usually make it easier to understand; rather it makes it easier to misunderstand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  7. #2467
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    yes it is, and in regards to farm labor, its not even debatable.
    Agricultural labor is pretty much statistically irrelevant, if you're worried about wage depression in general in the USA. The CIA World Factbook lists farming, forestry, and fishing as a whopping 0.7% of the US labor force. It's about a million jobs, total; http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-...d.aspx#Numbers Almost half of those are seasonal or part-time, to boot.

    While there's some effect on agricultural labor, the overall effect on the rest of the labor market is pretty much irrelevant.


  8. #2468
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    yes, its not the fault of illegal immigration, but because business hire those people.
    That's some primo grade 'perspective' going on.
    I don't think the perspective that employment causes those who seek it to migrate to it, is that far fetched. It's pretty much the definition of migrant workers. If there is no migrant work, let's say because we focus on employing illegals, why would migrant workers migrate?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  9. #2469
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    Simplifying things doesn't usually make it easier to understand; rather it makes it easier to misunderstand.
    Part of the reason I link the IPCC's Working Group 1 report when people question climate change. It's a massive document, but if you want to be thorough, you can't break it down any more simply, not without leaving out significant factors. And doing so just opens the door for people to say "well, what about X, huh?" Which is covered in the full breakdown, of course, but they ignore that, because they just want the overly simplified example so they can attack that oversimplification itself for being incomplete.


  10. #2470
    On Trump bragging about how he let minorities and Jews into his Mar A Largo places is somewhat grey. Basically he was having a hard time in getting the permits after he purchased the property and turning it into a private club. So since Palm Beach is 40% Jewish he used as a business strategy claiming that he was all inclusive.

    Trump wasn't some pioneer in civil rights. Basically bragging more about something than he actually accomplished.

    http://www.snopes.com/so-you-think-y...-donald-trump/
    Last edited by Paranoid Android; 2016-09-27 at 07:03 PM.

  11. #2471
    Quote Originally Posted by alexw View Post
    So are you saying that Obama wasn't born an American citizen?
    I believe Hillary started that one.

  12. #2472
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Actually it's about simplifying things so it's more understandable/relatable, it does not mean the one making the gross oversimplification or using it is simple minded. It's sad you couldn't understand that, should I simplify it for you, or was this too complicated to understand?
    But, you missed the point of Garrison trying to lose. You don't understand what that implies. Think of what it means to choose a guy who repeatedly scores in his own goal, over someone who doesn't try to lose. According to South Park and the point you seem to be missing, is that these elections are not a giant douche vs turd sandwich. It's a turd sandwich versus someone who intentionally tries to be incompetent, not giant douche.

    If this was same ol' giant douche v turd sandwich, Trump would have succeeded in losing. That's what Southpark is saying...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    I believe Hillary started that one.
    Quote it... Trump said she did... As usual, Trump is alergic to truth...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  13. #2473
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    I believe Hillary started that one.
    Is that what Alex Jones told you?

  14. #2474
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Or, as is more accurate, it encourages automation which leads to no net change in the employment rate or wage levels.

    Whereas simply increasing the minimum wage cascades upwards to increase buying power for the vast majority of consumers.

    Mmmm.... Fantasy land. When you increase the min wage you force companies to automate.(see McDonald's in California). Besided, whole industries have risen with the need to automate labor. However, we still need techs and mechanics to repair and maintain the machinery. And we even need people to run them.

    Leaving the min wage alone ( or even removing it) allows workers to compete based on pay. It allows them to say "I'll do that job for less". I've gotten jobs because I've said I'd take less than the other people trying for the same job. but if you raise the min wage, you take away the only real weapon some people have when looking for a job.

    And that's why illegal labor beats out legal labor. Why it's so dangerous to the somestic worker. We can't compete when we can't even offer to work for the same price. So if you really want to help the poor, you have to take away what they compete against. With out the illegals keeping the construction and agricultural industry wages low, they have no choice but to rise because they will HAVE to hire American citizens or go out of business.

  15. #2475
    Quote Originally Posted by LaserSharkDFB View Post
    Honest question, zenkai. If you don't really have a horse in this race, don't care about who won the debate, and don't have any actual issues other than 'I don't like these candidates'... why are you here?
    Because I made one statement to poke fun at both candidates and then got replies by different Hillary supporters, funny how none of the Trump supporters chimed in.

  16. #2476
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    CNN reports Clinton "gloating" over her victory.

    "We had a great, great time last night," Clinton said. "So I am looking forward to the next debate and the one after that."

    Clinton, though, left the door open about whether Trump would show up.

    "Well, I'm going to show up," Clinton said. "He gets to decide what he wants to do. ... If I'm the only person on stage, well, you know, I'm the only person on stage."

    Meanwhile, Trump had a rougher morning. He blamed Holt for not asking Clinton tougher questions than he got (incidentally, Trump didn't bring Benghazi up either), he blamed his mic for not working and asked if it was off on purpose (when...was it off?), and decided to defuse the Miss Universe Alicia Machado issue, the one where he was accused of saying some fairly sexist things, by saying even more sexist things.

    "That person was a Miss Universe person, and she was the worst we ever had. The worst. The absolute worst," Trump said. "She gained a massive amount of weight and it was a real problem. We had a real problem."

    The statement was unprovoked. Incidentally, not only has Ms. Machado accused Trump's mean comments of leading her to depression and eating disorders -- which, if you don't know anything about clinical depression like I don't, it's hard to judge, but that's what she claims -- but Trump is himself overweight, probably obese. Regardless of how you feel about this being PC, Trump doubling down on an attack used against him and adding a side of hypocrisy is counterproductive.

    And Trump has yet to deny calling her "Miss Housekeeping", either. Wanna see the video?

  17. #2477
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    Those are not political issues.

    Things like, gun control, marriage rights, national security, the economy, abortion rights, voting rights, etc.. Those are political issues.

    See you're not answering the question because you're not stupid, and you can tell what I'm doing. The position of "both are stupid so I don't care" is completely untenable. This isn't a choice between Pepsi and Coke. These candidates are incredibly different.
    Economy is always top on my list.

    Abortion and Gun control are just distractions, that shit never changes.

  18. #2478
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Part of the reason I link the IPCC's Working Group 1 report when people question climate change. It's a massive document, but if you want to be thorough, you can't break it down any more simply, not without leaving out significant factors. And doing so just opens the door for people to say "well, what about X, huh?" Which is covered in the full breakdown, of course, but they ignore that, because they just want the overly simplified example so they can attack that oversimplification itself for being incomplete.
    It applies to all science.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  19. #2479
    Legendary! TZucchini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Because I made one statement to poke fun at both candidates and then got replies by different Hillary supporters, funny how none of the Trump supporters chimed in.
    Voting for Hillary doesn't make someone a Hillary supporter. Just an FYI.
    Eat yo vegetables

  20. #2480
    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Lover View Post
    Is this a thing he is accused of? Because I've never heard it and that would be pretty illegal.
    Hillary brought it up during the debate. I don't remember Trump's exact response/wording, but sounded like he settled, but did not admit fault. He also claimed a lot of hotels got prosecuted with the same thing without any proof (strawman argument), but that's such an easy thing to bullshit about without any proof.

    I recommend watching the recording though, to get the exact wording and response, since I might be fudging the details.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanknasty View Post
    That's hilaroius....and untrue.
    "well that's just your opinion man."

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