Who else is pissed about the nerfs to prot?

[szandos]

Seems the changes will go through, at least I didn't see any reverts to them in the latest patch notes.

[Herogamer555]

Seems the changes will go through, at least I didn't see any reverts to them in the latest patch notes.

Sometimes I just fucking hate this game.

[Vestig3]

But there is no Ignore pain nerf, still would have wanted them to give us our rage back and nerf ignore pain.

[Deliverer]

I would trade 50% ip absorb for mop/wod rage generation.

[Sethanor]

consistend rage-gen would be a blessing...

everytime you get into a situation where the mobs dont hit you hard enough for rage to flow steady BUT ALSO hit harder than you can stack up IP your fucked and can only sit there looking stupid while shieldslam doesnt proc for 20+ seconds.

and that situation happens OFTEN in mythic and the lower mythic+ levels and it just feels like shit.

our non-IP survivability seems too low and IP seems to high... yet they decide to nerf rage-gen

[Deleted]

But there is no Ignore pain nerf, still would have wanted them to give us our rage back and nerf ignore pain.

Have you even looked into your logs? I checked the rage i got from heroic bosses this week and then calculated how much rage i would have lost with the nerfs active. It was 10-16% less rage. Especially on bosses like ursoc, that truck you down all the time, the amound of rage we active generate (ss/rev/inter) is really low compared to the rage we gain from damage taken.

You guys behave like we are losing 33-50% of our rage, because 2 abilities got nerfed by this amound.

[Vestig3]

Have you even looked into your logs? I checked the rage i got from heroic bosses this week and then calculated how much rage i would have lost with the nerfs active. It was 10-16% less rage. Especially on bosses like ursoc, that truck you down all the time, the amound of rage we active generate (ss/rev/inter) is really low compared to the rage we gain from damage taken.

You guys behave like we are losing 33-50% of our rage, because 2 abilities got nerfed by this amound.

Ye but rage effects other things like Shieldblock and Focused rage aswell....

[Deleted]

Ye but rage effects other things like Shieldblock and Focused rage aswell....

But thats what he is saying. This rage generation nerf is actually relatively tiny on anything where we are actually in danger of dying, because of how ridiculous RPDT is right now.You could literally not press buttons at all and your rage generation would drop by only about 30% on a fight like Ursoc. Right now, you press Shield Slam for the Dragon Scales proc much more than you press it for the rage. It is not balanced at all. The issue is the nerfs they have given us don't fix this, they make the problem worse. Even more of our rage (relatively) will come from damage taken now.

The nerf should have either been to our RPDT, or to Ignore Pain values. They are nerfing playstyle without actually hurting the broken part of the class that much.

[Deleted]

The nerf should have either been to our RPDT, or to Ignore Pain values. They are nerfing playstyle without actually hurting the broken part of the class that much.

Why are they nerfing the playstyle? You will still press ss/intercept and vengeance was overpowered, because it made IP cost WAY to little rage over the whole fight. It made every IP we used cost 45 instead of 60 rage and increased our single target DPS. Vengeance/Ultimatum will probably still be the best single target talents.

The only things that changes is that you will have less rage for IP, which is a nerf to our performance thx to IP and that we NOW have the posibility to use other talents than vengeance/ultimatum. Without the vengeance nerf we would stick to this stupid talent until 8.0, because it was probably 10 times stronger than the other talents in this row. Its not "nerfing" our playstyle, we are getting more options to play with.

[hyperhyve]

Have you even looked into your logs? I checked the rage i got from heroic bosses this week and then calculated how much rage i would have lost with the nerfs active. It was 10-16% less rage. Especially on bosses like ursoc, that truck you down all the time, the amound of rage we active generate (ss/rev/inter) is really low compared to the rage we gain from damage taken.

You guys behave like we are losing 33-50% of our rage, because 2 abilities got nerfed by this amound.

+

Alright, you're halfway there to actually understand it. You've already checked the rage you would have lost. That's good, that's a start. Now check the number of times you've cast IP.
Now think about the changes to Vengeance, apply the new numbers for IP + FR to your new number of rage generated.
What do you see ?
Yes, the rage change is minor, but paired with the cost increase of abilities due to Vengeance nerf (which was the optimal talent setup to raid with), you'll see a major shift in the number of times you would have been able to cast IP.

[Deleted]

Why are they nerfing the playstyle? You will still press ss/intercept and vengeance was overpowered, because it made IP cost WAY to little rage over the whole fight. It made every IP we used cost 45 instead of 60 rage and increased our single target DPS. Vengeance/Ultimatum will probably still be the best single target talents.

The only things that changes is that you will have less rage for IP, which is a nerf to our performance thx to IP and that we NOW have the posibility to use other talents than vengeance/ultimatum. Without the vengeance nerf we would stick to this stupid talent until 8.0, because it was probably 10 times stronger than the other talents in this row. Its not "nerfing" our playstyle, we are getting more options to play with.

Because in difficult content this is a very minor nerf to Rage gen, essentially we're still gonna have ridiculous uptime on IP, it just means screwing up you GCD rotation is more forgiving, and solo content like world quests will be boring because we won't generate the rage to really do anything.

I want IP nerfs
I want passive Rage Gen nerfs

I want the active rotation to be important, the reason Vengeance was so good is because on trivial content (or off tanking) we rage starve it allows to have some AM and on non-trivial content massively cheapens they play style so allows us to spam IPs. the problem isn't Vengeance the problem is the massive difference in Rage gen across different content. or the same content. starve when off tanking, solo questing, daily dungeon. Feast when doing mythic raids/dungeons.

Rage from damage taken is an unbalancable mechanic. Get rid of it, and then you can have a nice Ilvl=~RPS and then you can just tune IP numbers to adjust prot survivability.

I'd also rather like not get rage from intercepting someone who doesn't have aggro.

[Ozzyorcborne]

Instead of what they are planning to do, I would to see something closer to this (my opinion)
- ignore pain reduced to 60% or 50%
- Leave SS rage gen as normal
- devastate now generates 1 - 3 rage (3 sounds like overkill)
- reduce the amount of rage generated by taking damage.

Again this is wishful thinking purely my opinion. This feels like it might solve some issues
while making the prot a little more interesting. I dont know about you but being rage starved isnt a fun experience.

[DisposableHero]

+

Alright, you're halfway there to actually understand it. You've already checked the rage you would have lost. That's good, that's a start. Now check the number of times you've cast IP.
Now think about the changes to Vengeance, apply the new numbers for IP + FR to your new number of rage generated.
What do you see ?
Yes, the rage change is minor, but paired with the cost increase of abilities due to Vengeance nerf (which was the optimal talent setup to raid with), you'll see a major shift in the number of times you would have been able to cast IP.

My heroic Ursoc kill last week had 45 ignore pain casts with an average cost (factoring in the cost of the FRs that trigger Veng:IP) of 41 rage. With the changes to rage generation and veng I would have had 33 casts at an average cost of 54 rage using veng/ulti. This translates to 17 million additional external healing required over the course of the fight. I self healed for ~60 million with IP during the encounter so this is equivalent to a 28% nerf to Ignore Pain.

For comparison of the different nerfs, the shield slam nerf cost me 175 rage over the fight. The intercept nerf costs me 125 rage over the fight (I have the JC amulet that makes it 25 rage a cast). The vengeance nerf costs me 585 rage over the course of the fight which is more than i would have lost if they had nerfed shield slam to generate 0 rage.

[hyperhyve]

My heroic Ursoc kill last week had 45 ignore pain casts with an average cost (factoring in the cost of the FRs that trigger Veng:IP) of 41 rage. With the changes to rage generation and veng I would have had 33 casts at an average cost of 54 rage using veng/ulti. This translates to 17 million additional external healing required over the course of the fight. I self healed for ~60 million with IP during the encounter so this is equivalent to a 28% nerf to Ignore Pain.

For comparison of the different nerfs, the shield slam nerf cost me 175 rage over the fight. The intercept nerf costs me 125 rage over the fight (I have the JC amulet that makes it 25 rage a cast). The vengeance nerf costs me 585 rage over the course of the fight which is more than i would have lost if they had nerfed shield slam to generate 0 rage.

I know that. I was trying to explain the exact same thing to another user in the thread

[DisposableHero]

I know that. I was trying to explain the exact same thing to another user in the thread

Yeah, just adding some actual log numbers to reinforce your point =D

[megabutts]

Did a couple of dungeons with the changes and yikes, rage is scarce now

[heyitsqi]

Did a couple of dungeons with the changes and yikes, rage is scarce now

In dungeons and anything not mythic+4+ feels really rage starved.

[Zortorai90]

In dungeons and anything not mythic+4+ feels really rage starved.

I ran a plus 4 and it was alright. Ran a heroic with a guildie, I was using rage potion on bosses.

Wonder how long Blizzard will "collect data" before they tune things again.

[nicbizz]

Ultimatum + Vengeance is still good. Or do you think that 3% haste outweight's 35% cheaper Ignore Pains?

There is no 35% cheaper IP. FR+ IP comes up to 58.5 rage, so a saving of only 1.5 rage.

The comparison is between 3% haste and +50% SS. Keep in mind that if you use V:IP on anything less than 40 rage, you're worst off in mitigation I.e. A 20 rage V:IP nets you a 30 rage IP, for a total cost of 40 rage (20 FR + 20 V:IP).

You'll need Ultimatum more than ever to make this work.

[Deleted]

Are you whining as a viable Mythic tank?

Try be a DK or monk then.