New prot warrior playstyle is horrible

[Herogamer555]

Title says it all. Without the vengeance talent to make things interesting, Prot Warrior is now the most braindead tank of legion, and honestly the most braindead tank of the last several expansions. GG blizz, way to fuck everything up while ignoring the proposed fixes that everyone has been giving you for several months, all the way back to alpha.

[Jakisuaki]

Title says it all. Without the vengeance talent to make things interesting, Prot Warrior is now the most braindead tank of legion, and honestly the most braindead tank of the last several expansions. GG blizz, way to fuck everything up while ignoring the proposed fixes that everyone has been giving you for several months, all the way back to alpha.

They REMOVED Vengeance? D: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Herogamer555]

They REMOVED Vengeance? D: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

They made it pointless for mitigation and it is purely a dps talent.

[Bethrezen]

Still using Vengeance. Just because it's DPS only doesn't really change how I play it in pvp or pve mythic+ or raiding. Feels fine to me, just less expect rage income from your own actions, which is a QOL negative change more than anything.

[Deleted]

They made it pointless for mitigation and it is purely a dps talent.

They reduced its rage reduction to 35%. 39 rage max ignore pains are hardly pointless for mitigation.

[hyperhyve]

They reduced its rage reduction to 35%. 39 rage max ignore pains are hardly pointless for mitigation.

plus the 19 rage for FR that you need, makes 58 rage max IP. tell me, how exactly is that not pointless ? right, we save 2 rage. hoooooray!

[Shieldarm]

They made it pointless for mitigation! Unless you use Ultimatum. Which is still the only mitigation-based (when paired with Vengeance) talent in its tier. And the two tiers Vengeance competes with are pretty meh. But they made it pointless for mitigation! Totally. Obviously.

Just because something gets nerfed doesn't mean it's no longer a good choice. I still use Veng/Ulti. I still stroll through content. I just have to take a TINY TINY bit longer before pressing IP, and I float at 2/3 total, instead of full total AND 50 rage to spare.

[MasterDinadan]

The fact that veng/ulti is still the best mitigation combo in their respective rows even after the nerf just makes it more apparent why it was nerfed.
That said, I wish they'd just roll the two together into one talent (where veng is placed now) and give us a different talent where ultimatum is now. It's weird for Ultimatum to share a row with talents that offer no mitigation, and it's weird for Vengeance to share a row with talents that don't depend on another talent to provide mitigation.

[Beowulfe]

plus the 19 rage for FR that you need, makes 58 rage max IP. tell me, how exactly is that not pointless ? right, we save 2 rage. hoooooray!

You're forgetting to take free FR procs from Ultimatum into account. It won't always be available, but it does provide an overall rage cost reduction when it procs.

[nicbizz]

The fact that veng/ulti is still the best mitigation combo in their respective rows even after the nerf just makes it more apparent why it was nerfed.
That said, I wish they'd just roll the two together into one talent (where veng is placed now) and give us a different talent where ultimatum is now. It's weird for Ultimatum to share a row with talents that offer no mitigation, and it's weird for Vengeance to share a row with talents that don't depend on another talent to provide mitigation.

The only issue I have is outside of Ult procs, Vengeance can end up a net Rage loss if you don't pool 35-40 rage for it (pre nerf, the break even was 15 rage I believe). In PUGs, where the healer is an unknown quantity, going without any IP at all is just dangerous living.

Using it only on Ult procs, as have been suggested before, seems like a waste of talent.

[Anuibus]

The fact that veng/ulti is still the best mitigation combo in their respective rows even after the nerf just makes it more apparent why it was nerfed.

They're the best combo because their competition is complete garbage when looking for defensive value. Avatar and renewed fury both do nothing, and into the fray/booming voice have almost no value single target.

[Herogamer555]

They're the best combo because their competition is complete garbage when looking for defensive value. Avatar and renewed fury both do nothing, and into the fray/booming voice have almost no value single target.

Exactly. Being king of a pile of shit is not something to be proud of.

[Eninya]

They're the best combo because their competition is complete garbage when looking for defensive value. Avatar and renewed fury both do nothing, and into the fray/booming voice have almost no value single target.

Into the Fray is garbage under current tank mechanics unless you can keep it maxed. Previously, it was godly for speedrunning dungeons.

[Deleted]

The fact that veng/ulti is still the best mitigation combo in their respective rows even after the nerf just makes it more apparent why it was nerfed.

No, it makes makes it apparent that the other talents are utterly useless.

Ulti/Vengeance should be core mechanics, not talents.

[Darkke]

I tried playing without Vengeance/Ultimatum and wanted to just quit playing after one Mythic+ run, unless Vengeance build becomes clearly inferior to other builds I'll keep using it.

[Deleted]

I dont understand why people say it isnt fun playing without this combo? I dont play with it and i have fun.

[Anuibus]

I dont understand why people say it isnt fun playing without this combo? I dont play with it and i have fun.

because fun is subjective.

[hyperhyve]

You're forgetting to take free FR procs from Ultimatum into account. It won't always be available, but it does provide an overall rage cost reduction when it procs.

Nope, not forgetting it, just leaving it out and looking at vengeance alone. Before the nerfs, vengeance was a good choice in its own right. Now it pretty much only seems viable if paired with ultimatum.

I dont understand why people say it isnt fun playing without this combo? I dont play with it and i have fun.

well, fun is a subjective term which can hardly be argued about. I myself, as a lot of others players on this board as well, feel like the rotation without vengeance-weaving feels too slow and "dumbed down". But that's subjective as well. So if you're having fun, good for you.

[lordzed83]

hyperhyve after gutting so many skills from classes without vengeance im bored to shit. Like nothing to press feeling :/
Thats why i play fury not arms. I like its button spam mode

[Deleted]

I just have to take a TINY TINY bit longer before pressing IP, and I float at 2/3 total, instead of full total AND 50 rage to spare.

Do you always wait for 2/3 total now? Or does it depend on various situations?