[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Fiddlesnarf]

With Templar's Verdict doing flat out more damage than Justicar's Vengeance. I suppose going JV+Crusade is the suboptimal route.

[Daveydave]

How are the buffs helping now? After hating the ret playstyle I am actually kind of enjoying it now. I do wish there was a bit more weight behind the attacks though. That 5 holy power spender makes no noise at all. Like swinging air >.>

[Ahrimal]

I held off leveling my Pally too much because it felt kind of slow but changes today sure make getting things down faster at least for the PvE grind. Did Justicar's Vengeance not get a buff though, making it better to just use TV again?

[Taven]

I held off leveling my Pally too much because it felt kind of slow but changes today sure make getting things down faster at least for the PvE grind. Did Justicar's Vengeance not get a buff though, making it better to just use TV again?

Unless you need a heal it's almost always better in Dungeon/raid/boss situations to us TV over JV. The only time I use JV aside from an emergency heal because I stepped in stupid is world questing and getting a stun off.

[PointerToAddress]

I held off leveling my Pally too much because it felt kind of slow but changes today sure make getting things down faster at least for the PvE grind. Did Justicar's Vengeance not get a buff though, making it better to just use TV again?

Pretty much you do JV if you need the quick heal and have 5HP at the moment and don't care about the slight DPS drop. It's now a sorta-survival-tool only. Before it was ok for DP but even with DP, if you choose it, after the buffs, TV will deal more if you have the points on Artifact.

EDIT: Taven beat me to it

[Morally Grey Storm]

I reeeeeally don't feel like going back and quoting everyone who said they liked the new iteration just for this post, so I won't. You're free to go back to the few pages where it was discussed heavily yourself though and see that I was most definitely not the only one.

we can always go a little further back and find a decent amount of people extremely happy with legion Ret.
Will it prove a thing?
So lets stop appealing to mass claims as it won't do no good.
Let's talk facts.

Fact is, current iteration of PTR Crusade is not viable, as in you are unable to reach max stacks.
Fact is, current iteration of PTR Crusade forces you into Greaater Judgement.
Fact is, current iteration of PTR Crusade does in no way solve our sustained aoe/cleave issues.
Fact is, current iteration of PTR Crusade will create one or two many a problem in PvP, sure as sure.

I'm not talking about pvp. Not sure why you keep trying to force that topic

because looking at any change done towards any spec only from one edge(Dragonslaying/PvP) instead of both is unwise.

For example they could buff our FoL healing by 540% and it wouldn't change feth in Dragonslaying. But in PvP?..

We must stress, we must check, we must provide different angle feedback.
If we care, that is.
If we don't , then sure, do not talk about PvP.

[Taeldorian]

we can always go a little further back and find a decent amount of people extremely happy with legion Ret.
Will it prove a thing?
So lets stop appealing to mass claims as it won't do no good.
Let's talk facts.

Fact is, current iteration of PTR Crusade is not viable, as in you are unable to reach max stacks.
Fact is, current iteration of PTR Crusade forces you into Greaater Judgement.
Fact is, current iteration of PTR Crusade does in no way solve our sustained aoe/cleave issues.
Fact is, current iteration of PTR Crusade will create one or two many a problem in PvP, sure as sure.



because looking at any change done towards any spec only from one edge(Dragonslaying/PvP) instead of both is unwise.

For example they could buff our FoL healing by 540% and it wouldn't change feth in Dragonslaying. But in PvP?..

We must stress, we must check, we must provide different angle feedback.
If we care, that is.
If we don't , then sure, do not talk about PvP.

But I've already talked about pvp! There's a few sides you can sit on when looking at Crusade in a pve scenario. I could combat all of the negative points you made with positives but we've already done that.

There's only one seat when looking at it from a pvp standpoint. It's just bad in pvp. That's all. There's nothing else to discuss aside from how to fix it. Can't really discuss it any further, objectively it's just useless in pvp especially because judgement already lasts longer in pvp. Aside from fixes and ideas there's nothing much to talk about regarding crusade in pvp.

So if that's what you wanna discuss then I'm game. Ill throw around some ideas that could help crusade work in pvp. Aside from that though there's not much to discuss with this topic.

[Hellfury]

How are the buffs helping now? After hating the ret playstyle I am actually kind of enjoying it now. I do wish there was a bit more weight behind the attacks though. That 5 holy power spender makes no noise at all. Like swinging air >.>

idd bring templers veredict animation back I miss swinging that massive hammer

[Morally Grey Storm]

But I've already talked about pvp! There's a few sides you can sit on when looking at Crusade in a pve scenario. I could combat all of the negative points you made with positives but we've already done that.

and if you aknowledge the PvP side of this change is not good for us, how can you still be happy about this unpolished wreck of a talent? And it does nothing to help our sustained aoe/cleave. Getting aoe bonus at the cost of St damage is not something we should be getting, yet you're ok with such a trade for some reason.

There's only one seat when looking at it from a pvp standpoint. It's just bad in pvp. That's all. There's nothing else to discuss aside from how to fix it.

It should be taken into consideration nonetheless, even regarding Dragonslaying and shiny rainbow beams of happiness, is what I'm saying all this time.

So if that's what you wanna discuss then I'm game. Ill throw around some ideas that could help crusade work in pvp. Aside from that though there's not much to discuss with this topic.

Pah, there is indeed not much to discuss.

[Deleted]

With Templar's Verdict doing flat out more damage than Justicar's Vengeance. I suppose going JV+Crusade is the suboptimal route.

That was never even a viable route to begin with. JV doesn't make sense outside of DP procs. But now, not even that. You can take it for questing. I have been playing with Word of glory on mythic +. Theres no real great choice in that tier, but eye for an eye is the default choice. An extra defensive is always useful, even if its only physical.

[Ryuji]

So it's safe to assume Execution Sentence is now worse than Final Verdict for talent choices, yes? Because I hate ES so much. ._.

[Deleted]

So it's safe to assume Execution Sentence is now worse than Final Verdict for talent choices, yes? Because I hate ES so much. ._.

It already was. Now, even more so.

[Deleted]

Unless you need a heal it's almost always better in Dungeon/raid/boss situations to us TV over JV. The only time I use JV aside from an emergency heal because I stepped in stupid is world questing and getting a stun off.

So just out of curiosity, now knowing this, how accurate is the Icy veins guide. I generally take a quick look at those guides when levelling up a new alt for messing around on, but based on the comments it seems to be entirely unreliable. Is it worth actually using any of that or just stick to the stuff in this thread?

[Deleted]

do you actually believe that part?

.

I do. I'm sure they will finish fixing it 2 expansions down the line, until the point where they will redesign and break it from scratch again. Its the patern so far.

Vanilla to Wrath.
Cata to WoD.
Legion to ????

[Vanderhuge]

Buffs definitely feel nice. Also great to see a usual suspect hiding off in the corner of a world first shot!

[grossbard]

Hey guys how do I macro faulty countermeasure to crusade?

[Donalld]

Ran a mythic still was dead last on dmg lol not really noticing the buffs at all.

[snackfeat]

Hey guys how do I macro faulty countermeasure to crusade?

#showtooltip
/cast Crusade
/use Faulty Countermeasure

[Fiddlesnarf]

That was never even a viable route to begin with. JV doesn't make sense outside of DP procs. But now, not even that. You can take it for questing. I have been playing with Word of glory on mythic +. Theres no real great choice in that tier, but eye of an eye is the default choice. An extra defensive is always useful, even if its only physical.

Yea, Divine Purpose is what I meant to type.

[Daveydave]

Ran a mythic still was dead last on dmg lol not really noticing the buffs at all.

With that information we get nothing. How far was the gap between, what were you running, were you bad etc.

I feel that as long as the dps is even or not massively far apart thats fine. I feel people when changes come cry murder if there not first on the meter 1000% ahead.