1. #3161
    Anyone else had issues tanking mythic+ 9-10s our aoe threat is literally garbage when dealing with skittish, compared to Dks, DH, Pallies it feels like we need a huge threat boost put on thunderclap otherwise it doesnt seem possible.

  2. #3162
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Opeth69 View Post
    Anyone else had issues tanking mythic+ 9-10s our aoe threat is literally garbage when dealing with skittish, compared to Dks, DH, Pallies it feels like we need a huge threat boost put on thunderclap otherwise it doesnt seem possible.
    Just make it apply deepwounds again... Not sure why they removed that to begin with looking at my AOE threat at least.

    However, aiming revenge does do wonders

  3. #3163
    Quote Originally Posted by Opeth69 View Post
    Anyone else had issues tanking mythic+ 9-10s our aoe threat is literally garbage when dealing with skittish, compared to Dks, DH, Pallies it feels like we need a huge threat boost put on thunderclap otherwise it doesnt seem possible.
    Not that this is an ideal solution, but as a temporary bandaid... if you feel your survivability is high enough that you can drop a bit of Shield Block, and it's just threat you're having issues with, you could give Ravager a shot. The parry buff it gives is pretty welcome for large packs and Revenge procs, too. Long cooldown, but it'll do wonders for your short-term AOE threat.

    Can even use Battle Cry with it (cooldowns match), if you want a huge bump to AOE threat.

  4. #3164
    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulfe View Post
    Not that this is an ideal solution, but as a temporary bandaid... if you feel your survivability is high enough that you can drop a bit of Shield Block, and it's just threat you're having issues with, you could give Ravager a shot. The parry buff it gives is pretty welcome for large packs and Revenge procs, too. Long cooldown, but it'll do wonders for your short-term AOE threat.

    Can even use Battle Cry with it (cooldowns match), if you want a huge bump to AOE threat.
    I've tried it but it just doesn't do enough threat, skittish is horrible when you have 3 high aoe dps, you lose aggro so fast, compared to dks our aoe is a complete joke, we really need a substantial threat or damage buff to thunderclap

  5. #3165
    "The class changes listed in this hotfix update, as well as those from the previous update will be applied during weekly maintenance in each region."

    they are still in the notes below the new ones.

  6. #3166
    Yeah, I misread it. Hence why I deleted my post.

  7. #3167
    Scarab Lord Vestig3's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands, Amsterdam
    Posts
    4,621
    But they didnt list any ignore pain nerf as they previous stated to do but i wish they did and gave us our rage back.
    - Vanilla was legitimately bad; we just didn't know any better at the time - SirCowDog


  8. #3168
    Soooo, any change in stat prios / talent with the tuning changes. Noticed on another thread some discussion about wether hast was on top again.

  9. #3169
    Quote Originally Posted by Peukst View Post
    Soooo, any change in stat prios / talent with the tuning changes. Noticed on another thread some discussion about wether hast was on top again.
    Haste and Versatility are worse than before due to Shield Slam generating 33% less rage and having overall less IP generation. Crit probably has a slightly higher relative weight when paired with Ultimatum, but is still the worst stat. Mastery is unchanged in absolute value and probably relatively more valuable now that IP is a lower portion of your mitigation. Overall I think Mastery > Versatility >> Haste > Crit is the current accepted priority. Mastery has a big benefit in the fact that it also smooths your damage out much more than Vers buffed or haste buffed IP, since IP will just be far less reliable now.

    People saying Haste is best now just have a big misunderstanding of the nerfs. Haste had value for two primary reasons. The first reason was that it lowered the CD of SB. The next reason is that it lowered the CD of SS (and allowed more devs, which effectively lowers the CD as well). If SS generates less rage, then haste is just much worse in absolute defensive value now. You don't want to intentionally try and buff up your weakest links here, that's doesn't make any sense. As far as weights go, mastery is unchanged, and versatility is still a decent stat even with less IPs, so it's not like haste would skyrocket here either.

    As for talents, you can make an argument for Booming Voice, esp with the third gold trait. Vengeance + Ultimatum is still probably more overall rage generation, though. 21 rage per SS crit vs 31 or 50 rage per minute with Booming Voice. Not hard to beat. And Into the Fray is worthless for rage generation (it's like 10 extra rage a minute at 5 stacks), so it would only be worth consideration if you really needed the extra SB uptime (It's like a 11.3s CD instead of a 13s CD I think with 15% haste?)
    Last edited by Larynx; 2016-09-27 at 11:36 PM.

  10. #3170
    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    Haste and Versatility are worse than before. Crit probably has a slightly higher relative weight when paired with Ultimatum, but is still the worst stat. Mastery is unchanged in value and probably relatively more valuable now that IP is a lower portion of your mitigation. Overall I think Mastery > Versatility >> Haste > Crit is the current accepted priority.

    As far as talents go, you can make an argument for Booming Voice, esp with the third gold trait. Vengeance + Ultimatum is still probably more overall rage generation, though. 21 rage per SS crit vs 31 or 50 rage per minute with Booming Voice. Not hard to beat. And Into the Fray is worthless for rage generation (it's like 10 extra rage a minute at 5 stacks), so it would only be worth consideration if you really needed the extra SB uptime (It's like a 11.6s CD instead of a 13s CD I think with 15% haste?)
    Mastery is useless apart from increasing IP Value after a certain haste level cause you literally have to fail hard not to keep Shield Block up, unless they change values, lost 9-10% mastery and only lost 1% Block and around ~70k of IP value?

    Running around with 31% Haste right now, it might not the -optinal- way, but dear god 1 sec GCD instead of 1.5 is godly fun xD, not to mention that 6.9s SS and 10s Shield block.

    Everything seems a mess, i have like 50 items with all stats in the bank from 840 to 855 waiting to see what the hell is going on.

    Right now playing Haste>Mastery=Versa but i would prefer to switch to Haste=Versa > Mastery, just dont have the items dropping.
    Last edited by potis; 2016-09-27 at 11:39 PM.

  11. #3171
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Mastery is useless apart from increasing IP Value after a certain haste level cause you literally have to fail hard not to keep Shield Block up, unless they change values, lost 9-10% mastery and only lost 1% Block but around ~70k of IP value?
    Mastery is not useless inside SB... Do you think all mastery does is increase your passive block chance? The difference between 0% and 100% mastery in SB is enormous with critical blocks. You mitigate half as much damage with 0% mastery.

    31% haste is also not a 1s GCD btw. It's 1.15. 50% is the cap.
    Last edited by Larynx; 2016-09-27 at 11:47 PM.

  12. #3172
    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    Mastery is not useless inside SB... Do you think all mastery does is increase your passive block chance? The difference between 0% and 100% mastery in SB is enormous with critical blocks. You take twice as much damage with 0% mastery.
    Never said the opposite, neither forgot it, thats why i am playing Haste >Mastery critical block was and is OP, problem is i am so rage starved i literally cant enjoy the game

    Even during H Ursoc i didnt have rage to refresh anything, it felt so desperate and pathetic.

    What i am saying is, ever since i took my Haste to 30%, gameplay seems more fluid, while my damage intake, at least up to M+5 seems about the same, i feel more squishy during pull thats for sure, while i feel like i can pump more frequent IP's out during boss tanking.
    Last edited by potis; 2016-09-27 at 11:45 PM.

  13. #3173
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Never said the opposite, neither forgot it
    Mastery is useless apart from increasing IP Value after a certain haste level cause you literally have to fail hard not to keep Shield Block up
    I'm not sure how else anyone could read that sentence.

  14. #3174
    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    I'm not sure how else anyone could read that sentence.
    Bad editing changes that i didnt catch (I tend to type, rethink but change after what i want to say D, combined with not getting out what i wanted to express, ^ said above what i meant.

    Critical Block is awesome for most right click boss swings, and a few special physical attacks, everything is combined with magic damage nowadays.

    What i meant is, Mastery apart from critical block, seems to have less of a value compared to Versatility about overall damage taken, critical block wont absorb the Breath, the bleed dot or whatever other magical damage seems to exist a lot around lately.
    Last edited by potis; 2016-09-27 at 11:54 PM.

  15. #3175
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Bad editing changes that i didnt catch (I tend to type, rethink but change after what i want to say D, combined with not getting out what i wanted to express, ^ said above what i meant.

    Critical Block is awesome for most right click boss swings, and a few special physical attacks, everything is combined with magic damage nowadays.

    What i meant is, Mastery apart from critical block, seems to have less of a value compared to Versatility about overall damage taken, critical block wont absorb the Breath, the bleed dot or whatever other magical damage seems to exist a lot around lately.
    If you look at the damage taken logs from EN, unless they take tons of avoidable damage, the normal melee damage will be the majority of damage taken in every encounter.

  16. #3176
    Scarab Lord Vestig3's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands, Amsterdam
    Posts
    4,621
    So looking at Exorsus's tanks and some other top ranked warrior tanks they went fuck haste and mastery and put everything including their proffesion (aka alchemy stone) into versatillity, i gonna test it tonight to see how it works as i already had both sets ready but i wonder what the outcome is gonna be aswell as checking the logs.
    - Vanilla was legitimately bad; we just didn't know any better at the time - SirCowDog


  17. #3177
    Dreadlord Bethrezen's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    On the fields of eternal battle.
    Posts
    969
    vers + mastery is fine. dont overnuke it just to c/p the #1 topper warriors going all in vers.

  18. #3178
    Pasting something I wrote in another thread about the Vengeance nerf:

    So not only is the reduction on IP seemingly 45% (33 rage max) instead of 35% (39 rage max), but it's giving a larger absorb than if you were to spend 60 rage. For me, a 33 rage IP (with V: IP) gave me a 1.25 mil absorb, while a 60 rage IP gave me a 1.14 mil absorb (these are effective absorb values). I tripled checked this and made sure I didn't have a trinket proc or anything.

    Just to see how much rage I would need to spend to get a 1.25 mil absorb if I didn't have V: IP (calculating effective absorb here): 25.2 * 31337 (AP) * 1.0874 (Vers) * 1.06 (Dragon Skin) * 1.25 (Indom) * (X / 60) = 1.25 mil

    X = ~66

    In addition to that, the minimum rage cost isn't what it should be if IP was actually being reduced by 45%. It should be castable at 11 rage: 20 - (20 * .45) = 11, but the minimum rage cost is actually 13 rage.

    From these two things, we can see what's actually going on. Without Vengeance: Ignore Pain, Ignore Pain costs the normal amount and gives you the correct absorb amount.

    With Vengeance: Ignore Pain, the game thinks IP's original cost is 26 to 66 rage, and then applies a 50% reduction, which is what makes it seem like IP is being reduced by 45%. To put it in simpler terms, essentially all they did to IP was increase the base rage cost by 6 when you have Vengeance: Ignore Pain. It's still being reduced by 50% like it was before.

    This means for Ignore Pain itself (ignoring the fact that we also have to spend rage on FR), we're still receiving the same amount of absorb per rage spent.

    Let's compare this to IP if the rage cost was actually being reduced by 35% and to IP before the hotfix. (Using the same absorb values from above)

    Before hotfix: 15 + 30 = 45 rage spent for a ~1.14 mil absorb. ~25333 absorb per rage spent.

    Remember, since the 35% reduction is being applied properly to FR, this means I spend 20 rage on FR.

    Currently: 20 + 33 = 53 rage spent for a ~1.25 mil absorb. ~23660 absorb per rage spent.
    35%: 20 + 39 = 59 rage spent for a ~1.14 mil absorb. ~19322 absorb per rage spent.

    As you can see, we're actually getting more absorb than we should (assuming all of this isn't intended).

    Finally, let's look at how big of a nerf to Vengeance this actually is (in terms of absorb).

    Currently, we're looking at a ~6.6% reduction to Ignore Pain's absorb. If they fix V: IP to reduce IP's cost by 35%, it's a 23.73% reduction.

    That's a pretty significant difference. Unfortunately, it's likely that Blizzard intended to nerf it more than the initial 6.6%.

  19. #3179
    Scarab Lord Vestig3's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands, Amsterdam
    Posts
    4,621
    Quote Originally Posted by Bethrezen View Post
    vers + mastery is fine. dont overnuke it just to c/p the #1 topper warriors going all in vers.
    What i meant was that i want to test it out for myself and see how it works out currently i got 22% haste 46% mastery and 7% versatillity.
    - Vanilla was legitimately bad; we just didn't know any better at the time - SirCowDog


  20. #3180
    Dreadlord Bethrezen's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    On the fields of eternal battle.
    Posts
    969
    Yeah, trying something similar myself. Since I have blacksmithing and a load of mats and oblit, time to see about putting Demonsteel to work and trash the rest of this excess crit/haste I don't need.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •