[Speculation] I wonder how the Nightborne will regard the Night Elves post Elisande

[Friendlyimmolation]

you mean expressing my speculation/opinion on a speculation thread I begin - and you want to give me grief for it...right

Because you being to submit your suspicions as fact and then flood every other lore thread with it that is remotely related to Night elves.

[Wildmoon]

Which is precisely why Tyrande doesn't like them, which is awesome, I missed this attitude.

The problem is some people have this image of Tyrande that I have never known. She has always been arrogant and aggressive. In WC3, she wanted to slaugther any outsider and did not even agree with sacrificing Nordrassil initially.

[Mehrunes]

Because you being to submit your suspicions as fact and then flood every other lore thread with it that is remotely related to Night elves.

They become facts after the initial thread, duh.

[Mace]

Well, if I am a night elf I would not regard the nightborne too well. Not only they are addicted but they refused to help fight the legion when everyone was risking everything in WotA.

technically they're not addicted, but dependent, and these lot did fight the Legion in the WotA, if itwasn't for their efforts, the deomons pouring out of the second portal would have outflanked Ravencrest and the army that left Suramar to confront Queen Azshara. It's the Eldre'thalas highborne that did nothing till the last moments, and were the ones tha twere addicted capturing a demon to fuel their addictions. That was not how the night elves of Suramar behaved. Which is probably why Tyrande is very upset with recent developments, that Elisande just let them in.

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Because you being to submit your suspicions as fact and then flood every other lore thread with it that is remotely related to Night elves.

really, I guess the words, "i wonder if" or "I suspect that" or "maybe" or "what if" weren't clear enough to indicate that this was speculation or suspicion. You don't have to like it ofc, but to complain about it in a topic that is created to do exactly that seems like you're in the worng place.

[Zulkhan]

you mean expressing my speculation/opinion on a speculation thread I begin - and you want to give me grief for it...right

You know, there is a monumental difference from saying "would be cool if Elisande and Tyrande were to be related in some way" and saying "guys these two could be sisters, I have suspicions based on who knows what that subtly implies that"; if you present the same exact topic with the first approach than you would offer actual room for light-hearted discussion, but since you present your "theory" following the second approach all you get is people pointing out how nothing in canon lore suggests what you believe.

[Combatbutler]

Which is probably why Tyrande is very upset with recent developments, that Elisande just let them in.

Unless blizz changes some quest texts then no, she hasn't forgiven the nightborne for hiding under their shield.

[Zulkhan]

you're in the worng place.

Yeah, this is definitely the wrong place for someone unable to discern speculation from fanfiction.

[Enthralled]

really, I guess the words, "i wonder if" or "I suspect that" or "maybe" or "what if" weren't clear enough to indicate that this was speculation or suspicion. You don't have to like it ofc, but to complain about it in a topic that is created to do exactly that seems like you're in the worng place.

I dunno man, when I mentioned to you that the known lore simply does not support the notion that they are related at all, you just flat out rejected it and began inventing new ways that they could be related. In other words, you stopped discussing lore at that point, and started discussing something else -- fanfiction, IMO.

So not to sound harsh, but maybe you're in the wrong place.

[Arrashi]

Unless blizz changes some quest texts then no, she hasn't forgiven the nightborne for hiding under their shield.

Isn't she hiding under her goddess dress her entire life ? Also, not one but two strong males around her, so tyrande is last person to judge anyone.

[Kellorion]

Is Fardonis/Court involved at all in 7.1 or the shen'dralar? I hope, think I'm starting running DM just cause....

[Mehrunes]

Yeah, this is definitely the wrong place for someone unable to discern speculation from fanfiction.

Sayeth wat? Are you telling me there's a difference? What's next, you'll try to argue there's a difference between these two and canon lore or obvious truths? Well, let me tell you something. If speculation was Night Elves and fanfiction was Shen'dralar, then following this analogy canon would be Nightborne (in more than one way), and obvious truths would be Night'dorei. All part of the larger family of descriptive nocturnal night elves of the night, that are just in varying states of night. But their night elven(n)ess is undeniable. Just like both canon and fanfiction are valid pieces of descriptive canon lore (but remember, it's not actually a term, I'm just describing a point here).

But I think the problem here is that someone didn't notice the link between Khadgar and khaleesi first and is putting the more perceptive users down. Take a chill night elven(n)ess pill Zullan.

[Mace]

Or it might be awesome.

(And I say that in a non-fangirly way. I mean awesome for the story.)

.

nothing wrong with being fangirly - those who mock others for that are such hypocrites, they shoudl explain why they're on here.

[Frontenac]

it's worrying, you're not the only one that has noticed it. We're making excuses for her, because it's plausible atm, they need to have us spend a bit more time with her, like we do with Thalyssra, most people have not played WC3, and therefore Tyrande is coming off as very unlikeable especially if you do not explain the context.

For me, her reaction here is not surprising, as predicted, she'd be furious at first, then she'd come to really like and admire how the Nightborne handled the state of corruption, but at first it would be anger which will later subside.

Indeed. Here's what she said when she saw the orcs and humans for the first time:

So, these orcs and humans presume to run rampant through our lands? They will regret ever stepping foot into Ashenvale. We will establish a base and deal with these outlanders as they deserve.

When meeting Thrall and Jaina:

You are not welcome here!

Then at the Battle of Hyjal, to Jaina:

Your plan is a bold one, girl. Perhaps I have misjudged you outlanders. May Elune shine upon you!

What we have in Suramar is typical Tyrande. A Tyrande we have not seen yet in WoW.

[Mace]

I dunno man, when I mentioned to you that the known lore simply does not support the notion that they are related at all, you just flat out rejected it and began inventing new ways that they could be related. In other words, you stopped discussing lore at that point, and started discussing something else -- fanfiction, IMO.

So not to sound harsh, but maybe you're in the wrong place.

I disagreed, and pointed out my reasons why, that is what a discussion does, if you disagree with those reasons why, you say so. As long as you don't become uncivil or rude name calling like "fanwanking" etc, which is out of line. It's accpetable to state your opnion or speculation and it's acceptable to disagree with it. Disagreeing about something especially opinion or speculation is nothing anyone should get offended at, especially in a fantasy world where literally anything is possible. And if a person doens't like it, they don't hae to respond to it, and if they don't like a person at all, or anything they say, they can always ignore.

It's okay to talk about other things, if discussing speculation or fan theories is offensive then why respond to it? or courteously comment on it, and then draw issue with a response to it. This thread was started to discuss possibilities and specualtion, I wlecome anyone's opinion on how things could go, or what they think might be possible. .what on earth are fansites for if you all of a sudden cannot discuss your thoughts? For fact checking only on lore? who gave you that idea? Did the forum creator say that you cannot speculate nor give opinions or theories on their boards? and if they didn't say so, why would you let someone else control what you can or cannot say? That's a subtle way of speech oppression and manipulation, do not let anyone silence you if you ahve something to say, if your opinion matters to no one else, it matters to you. And if this becomes a place where opinions aren't welcome then those in charge should make it abundantly clear that you're not to freely express opinions, give speculations, discuss theories etc.

Don't think twice about it, expect people to give their suspicions and thoughts, and expect some people to rubbish them because they don't like them and be rude about it or simply disagree for the same reasons. But don't let anyone ever stop you from expressing your thoughts, or tell you you can't because of some fabricated reason that sounds legit but is totally bogus.

[Zandalariprelate]

Do we know what happens for Elisande? I hope she dye slowly or being disintegrated by the aman'thul eye, i mean damn that character is even more evil, hateful than Gul Dan, sacrifice his own people to just gain power and move his own agenda, allow the kidnapped of kids to sacrifice them to full the portals of the legion but I remember seeing a picture in this forum about her with a dialog helping us against gul'dan but honnestly with the scrap of alleria in the turalyon message for his son i wont be surprised if elisande die in a nasty manner

[Mace]

Indeed. Here's what she said when she saw the orcs and humans for the first time:



When meeting Thrall and Jaina:



Then at the Battle of Hyjal, to Jaina:



What we have in Suramar is typical Tyrande. A Tyrande we have not seen yet in WoW.

Yeah, sounds like Tryande, and strangely a little like Elisande too - who also tries to kill you on first meeting, and also insults you telling you you're not welcome.. then after you beat her, commends your boldness and teams up with you.

[Orquitis]

Yeah, sounds like Tryande, and strangely a little like Elisande too - who also tries to kill you on first meeting, and also insults you telling you you're not welcome.. then after you beat her, commends your boldness and teams up with you.

Yeah they might have some things in common but... Tyrande was always in the good guys side. Elisande and her nightborne are both cowards and traitors, they didn't helped their kaldorei brethen in the wota and now they sided the legion in this expansion.

I don't understand the Tyrande hate. Destroy the nightwell would be a good thing, since it corrupt the people and we have bad experience with powerful magic wells and demons. Thalyssra didn't objected when Tyrande stated the nightwell must be destroyed (they don't need it anyways, arcan'dor fruit cured their nightwell and mana addiction). Suramar is next to the tomb of Sargeras, we need the eye of aman thul and run.

Anyways I think Maiev would have been a better choice to be the night elf character that distrust arcane magic users (she even murdered some highborne in Darnassus lol), since Tyrande was fine with the Illidari in the Stormwind keep (Malfurion was the cautious one), giving Illidan freedom and helping the blood elves back in warcraft 3 (Although they were not horde members yet)

[Beloren]

Yeah they might have some things in common but... Tyrande was always in the good guys side. Elisande and her nightborne are both cowards and traitors, they didn't helped their kaldorei brethen in the wota and now they sided the legion in this expansion.

I don't understand the Tyrande hate. Destroy the nightwell would be a good thing, since it corrupt the people and we have bad experience with powerful magic wells and demons. Thalyssra didn't objected when Tyrande stated the nightwell must be destroyed (they don't need it anyways, arcan'dor fruit cured their nightwell and mana addiction). Suramar is next to the tomb of Sargeras, we need the eye of aman thul and run.

Anyways I think Maiev would have been a better choice to be the night elf character that distrust arcane magic users (she even murdered some highborne in Darnassus lol), since Tyrande was fine with the Illidari in the Stormwind keep (Malfurion was the cautious one), giving Illidan freedom and helping the blood elves back in warcraft 3 (Although they were not horde members yet)

I agree on points 1 and 3,

but it feels right they should have a nightwell, they and their night elf kin - sort of like at long last, the Well of Eternity they lost, they get a second chance, corruption free to do the right thing with such power - they've had 10k years of discipline. It should be a joint night elf/nightborne thing too, it's almost poetic, has a nice symmetry being the night version of the Sunwell.

The nightborne despite having to overly rely on the nightwell, did use it responsibly and for good for the 10k years they employed it. Now with the resistance showing it's worth by fighting the Legion, and by being cured by the arcan'dor, add that to the night elves tie to the world tree and 10k years of discipline to not use the arcane, I think there would be no better stewards.

Even though I don't like the Night elves nor the nightborne much, and I'd prefer the blood elves to be running Suramar, if I put that aside for a moment and consider it from a night elf perspective.. why would I destroy the Nightwell instead of cleanse it so I can use it for good, now in responsible hands? Would be an amazing end to see Night elves get a proper power source back after 10k years, and Tyrande of all people should understand that you don't destroy the Emerald Dream because of the Nightmare corruption, you destroy the corruption that has made the druids and even demi-gods all mad, once you fix it you use it for good. Corruption of the nightwell made a lot of bad happen, with healing achieved now, they can now use it for good.

I wonder if the nightwell would turn night elves who use it into nightborne? minus the addiction because that has been cured now

[Orquitis]

But if they start to drink arcwine the nightborne will probably become manaddicts again. Also, night elves dont want a super powerful magic well, if they wanted so, they would have burned Nordrassil.

I don't see a reason of why commoner night elves would want to have a giant arcane well (the only ones that would want that are the shen'dralar highborne since they're already manaddicts)

[Zandalariprelate]

But if they start to drink arcwine the nightborne will probably become manaddicts again. Also, night elves dont want a super powerful magic well, if they wanted so, they would have burned Nordrassil.

I don't see a reason of why commoner night elves would want to have a giant arcane well (the only ones that would want that are the shen'dralar highborne since they're already manaddicts)

They dont need it. they have the sunwell of light which can repels demons unlike the nightwell, with the new tree they only need new generations to erradicate the mana addiction