Where are the fire nerfs?

[Deleted]

Also they have the most boring level 100 talent choice. It's like, StM or some passive shit.

Like Arcane's is any better, ditch the Arcane Power extending one and give us back Prismatic Crystal.

[Deleted]

This thread in its current form is nonsense. Arguing over mage AOE without knowing a lot of very important details.

What talents? How many mobs? Using RoP and/or Combustion? How much mastery do you have?

Surely you can talent and gear with fire mage so that you perform really good on big packs but then you won't be very good on single target. I personally build my character to focus mainly on single target dps. So if we pull a group with 2-4 mobs and I don't use RoP nor Combustion I have similar dps as the tank ... (I know I suck .. don't need lecture about it )
I think fire is fine.

[Charge me Doctor]

Like Arcane's is any better, ditch the Arcane Power extending one and give us back Prismatic Crystal.

I would fucking love my PC back instead of any talent.

[Pandacally]

Because fire scales horribly after the critical mass changes. It made them a good spec at low levels but scale alot worse... Mythics are opening this week once people have 870-875 ilvl you will start seeing mages slowly dropping to middle of the pack.


Also hunters are not really amazing single target lol they are getting dragged up by xavius pad logs and AOE fights.... I can keep up with hunters on my boomkin (We are a top 20 US guild) and I'm the one getting buffed next week if that tells you what hunters are looking like.

Interesting, usually the scaling issue was the other way round for fire mages, they scaled crazy once more gear improved their crit.
This is a argument I can understand.

Usually, arcane is one of the speccs that profits the most from increased gear, and it will probably also happen here with the adjusted mastery value and the slight buffs, so maybe at 880+ arcane will be able to to pull ahead on certain fights!

One more thing about some people talking about 99th % logs; these were arcane mages abusing the NT spam built that is not a legitimate rotation but a blizzard oversight, and it got immediatly hotfixed today to only go to 50 stacks of quickening and then expire. So these few parses (I think it is less than 20) are just outliers.

Regarding hunter balancing, there is too much focus on the raid environment and not enough on mythic+.

One more re-iteration of what I said throughout: I only talk about the respective balancing of range dps classes to each other.
Too many people go: "But warri, DH, rogue is also OP in single target that why fire needs to be OP there too", but you are comparing apples to potatoes.
especially in a raid environment, you need both ranged and melee dps. So if all the melees are "op" in single target or cleave fights, they compete with each other, not with the range dps spots.
It is different if you have only 2 range dps speccs that outperform all othe range dps speccs. Since it is easier to -nerf- 2 speccs than to buff 7 speccs to be on par with each other, this would be the argument for a fire nerf.
If blizzard decides to buff the 7 others instead, that is fine with me as well. But those buffs have to be real balancing buffs, not band-aid fixes that makes the specc from unplayable to underperforming.

[Deleted]

Recently it was my first time in legion to kick someone from m dungeon group, this SP refused to use his void form on trash and spammed mind seer or whatever their AoE ability is called.

Void form is not a CD though. It's part of your rotation. It's where your damage comes from. It's not like me not using Avenging Wrath. It's more like me not using Templar's Verdict.

[juhi]

I am absolutely surprised that fire did not get a nerf.

Their performance is over the top in single target and AoE, as well as in movement heavy fights. Even their burst potential is better than most classes.
If you compare this to what frost or arcane can bring, even after the buffs, I wonder if blizzard wants all mages to be fire?

So far, the "hotfix" balance patch mostly hit DHs and Monks AoE, and shadow and MS warri single target, but they really need to bring down MM hunter, fire mage and maybe some rogue speccs.

If you look at the raid environment (7/7 hc so far), it is plain stupid that elemental shaman and arcane/frost mage as well as most warlock speccs get to eat shit, trying to do dps when every encounter has little ramp-up time, burst windows and tons of movement, and then get shit on in dps by fire mages and hunters, where the latter only need to find 2 buttons.
Fire mages are also way to easy, but not as bad as hunters.

You wanna talk about mythic+ dungeons? Then delete frost immediatly. And if you are arcane, have fun relying on your tank to do crazy pull strats so you get some decent aoe off, because single target you are shit. And yeah, have fun sitting down drinking after every trash pack.
Oh yeah and fire, just hit that one button living bomb, will do enough.

Srsly either nerf the shit out of fire or give frost/arcane some better buffs.
The fairer option would be to nerf fire mages and hunters, so that all range speccs would be equally good/bad.

/rage over

are u high !? fire mages is easy !? yes probally the whole wow game is easy! when ur quesiting.. get into the van man :P
Everything is based on ur skills, i seen some 860 mages doing 150k dps in single. fire mage is not op. probally needs some buff on fireball dmg and Mastery, as a hunter u will use A BARRAGE ! OMG IM TOP DPS GGEZWP

[Sam the Wiser]

Mods delete this!

[Goldielocks]

I don't get the "i don't use CDs on trash" mentality. Why would you hold them back? You can use 3m CDs at least once inbetween boss fights in dungeons, and it makes the run significantly smoother and faster.
Recently it was my first time in legion to kick someone from m dungeon group, this SP refused to use his void form on trash and spammed mind seer or whatever their AoE ability is called.

Because it doesn't matter and I'm lazy. I do use 2m CDs occasionally but only if there's more than one pack being pulled.

[Traxwow]

Like Arcane's is any better, ditch the Arcane Power extending one and give us back Prismatic Crystal.

PC was absolute trash in terms of an interesting talent, 30% more damage for hitting another target. Like that's more exciting than extending AP. On top of that, if the tank had happy feet you were screwed.

[Bullarkie]

And fire is on 6th overall if you change to 99%.

And the point was?

Edit: Shadow is above from 90% and up. Blizzard just reverted the nerfs and brought more buffs. So they get buffed, while better than fire. No one over there complaining.

Sooo fire needs a buff?

Quit switching to overall, it's not a good metric due to aoe padding. Look at each individual fight.

Do you even statistic?

[Deleted]

PC was absolute trash in terms of an interesting talent, 30% more damage for hitting another target. Like that's more exciting than extending AP. On top of that, if the tank had happy feet you were screwed.

At least it delivered well, something the AP extension talent never did.

[Deleted]

lol BM is third to last in the latest sims

Good thing sims matter more than actual raid/dungeon performance.

[Doffen]

Quit switching to overall, it's not a good metric due to aoe padding. Look at each individual fight.

Do you even statistic?

Overall on bosses only!! (And yes, check out each fight, not topping one, 2-8 depending on fights, 12th on cenarius)

Do you even statistic?

[Bullarkie]

Overall on bosses only!! (And yes, check out each fight, not topping one, 2-8 depending on fights, 12th on cenarius)

Do you even statistic?

Oh sorry Arcane got buffed...

Stay in school.

[Doffen]

Oh sorry Arcane got buffed...

Stay in school.

This is a thread about fire and them not being nerfed.

Why you bring arcane in here is silly at best.

You got proven wrong, and then you start with sillyness like "stay in school". Ridiculous.

[Deleted]

This is a thread about fire and them not being nerfed.

Why you bring arcane in here is silly at best.

You got proven wrong, and then you start with sillyness like "stay in school". Ridiculous.

What did you expect? That he would suddenly say something smart or logical?

[Bullarkie]

This is a thread about fire and them not being nerfed.

Why you bring arcane in here is silly at best.

You got proven wrong, and then you start with sillyness like "stay in school". Ridiculous.

The density in here...

Nythendra - Fire Mage #2
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=1853

Il'gynoth - Fire Mage #2
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=1873

Renferal - Fire Mage #2
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=1873

Ursoc - Fire Mage #1
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...841&dataset=99

Dragons - Fire Mage #3
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=1854

Xavius - Fire Mage #1
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...864&dataset=90

There area lot of great guides out there to help you understand how to read these numbers. I recommend starting here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics

Your first homework assignment is to figure out why the Arcane parses aren't significant.

"Children have to be educated, but they have also to be left to educate themselves." -Abbé Dimnet, Art of Thinking, 1928

I've done all I can here. Stay in school.

[Deleted]

The density in here...

Nythendra - Fire Mage #2
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=1853

Il'gynoth - Fire Mage #2
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=1873

Renferal - Fire Mage #2
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=1873

Ursoc - Fire Mage #1
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...841&dataset=99

Dragons - Fire Mage #3
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=1854

Xavius - Fire Mage #1
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...864&dataset=90

There area lot of great guides out there to help you understand how to read these numbers. I recommend starting here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics

Your first homework assignment is to figure out why the Arcane parses aren't significant.

"Children have to be educated, but they have also to be left to educate themselves." -Abbé Dimnet, Art of Thinking, 1928

I've done all I can here. Stay in school.

Then, dear friend, I urge you to follow your own advice, for the links you just posted disprove your own ludicrous claim. Thanks for that, by the way

[Doffen]

The density in here...

Nythendra - Fire Mage #6
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=1853

Il'gynoth - Fire Mage #5
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=1873

Renferal - Fire Mage #2
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=1873

Ursoc - Fire Mage #6
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...841&dataset=99

Dragons - Fire Mage #4
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ty=4&boss=1854

Xavius - Fire Mage #1 HEY YOU GOT 1 RIGHT!
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...864&dataset=90

There area lot of great guides out there to help you understand how to read these numbers. I recommend starting here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics

Your first homework assignment is to figure out why the Arcane parses aren't significant.

"Children have to be educated, but they have also to be left to educate themselves." -Abbé Dimnet, Art of Thinking, 1928

I've done all I can here. Stay in school.

Fixed for you.

Funny that I need to learn statistics and have to go to school, when you are reading 5 of 7 logs wrong

You even linked the same fight twice.

Clever.


mascarpwn, indeed, more of those would be nice

[zimi]

Guys I think we want to see what happens after today (wednesday) raiding sesions. See those logs. Then debate. RIght now any comment that we can do is imagination and speculation, not reality.