I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[Snuffleupagus]

Thats why they brought tier back into lfr.. ooops....

835 tier with a chance to titanforge vs. 850... gosh, tough call. Unless they go back on their promise to stop tier breaking some classes, it's a token gesture at best to blind you to what they are trying to pull.

I hope it works, but we'll see.

- - - Updated - - -

EN Normal difficulty is basically MoP LFR difficulty so what's the problem here? Grab that bull by the horns and join a PuG group.

They want to be carried.

[Glorious Leader]

source? or just biased bullshit to keep your denial running how you're always right? blizzard doing anything to encourage people into normal mode raiding is a failure, then those people don't want normal mode raiding, they can stay away from all it's rewards. but where do you prove that no-one has made the step up?

The fact that relatively so few people have ever opted into the raiding experience despite a near monopoly on just about every form of progression over the years. They likely will stay away from all it's rewards as they've done in the past. The question becomes is how much of that reward can be placed in content they will opt out of before they opt out of the game entirely. It may be that the cosmetic reward strikes a balance that Blizzard caves but it was something totally misread in wod.

[Jtbrig7390]

Ha ha ha! Of course they lied. It must be nice being that naive.

They know current implementation is cancer, the only reason it is still there is to pander to tryhards who are still parting ways with their money while only playing 1/3rd of a game. And that's not by choice, they report to shareholders.

They are weaning you off, that's why there are non-queueable dungeons. Thats why Mythic and Normal raids are easy and give you roughly the same level of gear.

Regardless, it's cosmetic items that are behind this wall, so git gud or miss out.

I want what your smoking. Legion was the perfect time to kill off LFR and they didn't do it. Has zero to do with weaning anyone off anything. They want to keep raiding in WoW and LFR funds it.

They can't lie because it involves money and a big company lying about money is illegal. Them lying to us is them lying to there share holders. That is a massive no no in the US and most country's.

really give me what ur smoking.

[Socialhealer]

Thats why they brought tier back into lfr.. ooops....

thats crap anywhere in the world can currently drop 895 loot, so they're encouraging you to simply play 24/7 the more you do the more chance you get better loot, it's literally endless, world quests heroics mythics, mythic+ and all raid difficulties can drop upto 895, and nearly all those sources can drop a legendary as well.

yet you see this as a failure of normal mode? and LFR the savior of raiding, what utter bullshit.

- - - Updated - - -

The fact that relatively so few people have ever opted into the raiding experience despite a near monopoly on just about every form of progression over the years.

and do you have numbers for people who don't even hit max level or clear all dungeons or pvp, or go do all the quests in a zone? nope just grasping at straws because we can actually see raid participation huh, yet you don't have a clue where else content is being "ignored" or "failing"

[Paula Deen]

I'm sorry but not being able to get the Dreamer title in LFR is bullshit.

[Glorious Leader]

thats crap anywhere in the world can currently drop 895 loot, so they're encouraging you to simply play 24/7 the more you do the more chance you get better loot, it's literally endless, world quests heroics mythics, mythic+ and all raid difficulties can drop upto 895, and nearly all those sources can drop a legendary as well.

yet you see this as a failure of normal mode? and LFR the savior of raiding, what utter bullshit.

895 loot does unfortunately not include set bonuses and trinkets. The likely hood of "anywhere in the world" dropping said loot is incredible small as well. They were explicit about some rewards stayign with some content and that includes tier which they decided stays IN RAIDING. Clearly they consider lfr a form of raiding and furthermore the idea that they will try to get rid of it is humorous but not based on any observable evidence or rational thought process. Of what purpose would it server to get rid of it? It fulfills its function perfectly.

[Snuffleupagus]

I want what your smoking. Legion was the perfect time to kill off LFR and they didn't do it. Has zero to do with weaning anyone off anything. They want to keep raiding in WoW and LFR funds it.

They can't lie because it involves money and a big company lying about money is illegal. Them lying to us is them lying to there share holders. That is a massive no no in the US and most country's.

really give me what ur smoking.

LOL.

Killing off LFR like that would be suicide, hence weaning you off. Keep up. They don't want the LFR crybabies leaving en masse, they want to wind it down and transfer as many as possible to normal mode. It's almost like designers and management have differing views!

And PR spin is the same as lying, but also legal if you do it right.

[Glorious Leader]

thats crap anywhere in the world can currently drop 895 loot, so they're encouraging you to simply play 24/7 the more you do the more chance you get better loot, it's literally endless, world quests heroics mythics, mythic+ and all raid difficulties can drop upto 895, and nearly all those sources can drop a legendary as well.

yet you see this as a failure of normal mode? and LFR the savior of raiding, what utter bullshit.

- - - Updated - - -



and do you have numbers for people who don't even hit max level or clear all dungeons or pvp, or go do all the quests in a zone? nope just grasping at straws because we can actually see raid participation huh, yet you don't have a clue where else content is being "ignored" or "failing"

I imagine those numbers are just as bad yes. But that doesn't argue that raiding percentage increases with enormous incentive. Rather it just buttresses the argument that even with raiding as end game content having that enormous reward behind it people could still not be arsed to lvl, progress through the dungeons, do all the quests or any of that shit that lead up to it. Raiding is the ULTIMATE failure in trying to appeal to people and efforts to lure people to participate in NM+ (largely by gutting the rewards of mythic as they did in WoD) were abject failures. Sorry.

If people weren't willing to lvl, dungeon grind, quest grind in order to run the raids WHEN THOSE RAIDS HAD A NEAR MONOPOLY ON END GAME PROGRESSION what makes you think putting a skin behind it will drag them out?

[kary]

I imagine those numbers are just as bad yes. But that doesn't argue that raiding percentage increases with enormous incentive. Rather it just butresses the argument that even with raiding as end game content having that enormous reward behind it people could still not be arsed to lvl, progress through the dungeons, do all the quests or any of that shit that lead up to it. Raiding is the ULTIMATE failure in trying to appeal to people. Sorry.

People who actually like to play this game, and don't play it out of some sad addiction actually like playing with, and progressing with friends.

[Socialhealer]

895 loot does unfortunately not include set bonuses and trinkets. The likely hood of "anywhere in the world" dropping said loot is incredible small as well. They were explicit about some rewards stayign with some content and that includes tier which they decided stays IN RAIDING. Clearly they consider lfr a form of raiding and furthermore the idea that they will try to get rid of it is humorous but not based on any observable evidence or rational thought process. Of what purpose would it server to get rid of it? It fulfills its function perfectly.

didn't say LFR wasn't raiding, it's not but i never mentioned it you just feel the need to bring your own personal agenda about LFR being the savior of raiding in.

also i didn't say get rid of it either, why remove content? you we're trying to prove they failed to get people into normal mode raiding got any numbers or just more LFR is the best bullshit? removing LFR wouldn't change that, people would likely just never see the content, lazy ppl who don't try will never change in game or in real life, they either decide the want the reward and do it or won't same for any other mount reward in the game or pvp reward or pets gold etc etc, it's not unique or limited to raiding or LFR.

[Deleted]

Good news finally.

[Neudgae]

And that's the fault of the community not the game.

This thread is a perfect example of how shit the community has gotten. To be clear I mean the whole online gaming community not just wow.

i mean that goes beyond gaming community, its every where that people can talk shit behind their monitor, put two people face to face and i doubt they would say anything, but since i could call anyone here a shit eating fuck faced faggot and get away with it, but it is partly blizzard fault for cross realms, LFR/LFG contribute to an extent but with cross realms there is a very high chance i will never see you again so having this toxicity exist on the internet as well as that, theres no reason for me to care about how i treat others.

If i was stuck with the same 30k-50k or however many people eventually it would bite me in the ass

[Glorious Leader]

people would likely just never see the content,

precisely which is why lfr exists and why efforts to mitigate it's utility are foolhardy. It's also ironically expressly why efforts to encourage NM+ raiding would be and are ultimately failures. If tmmrw you removed it that would only INCREASE THE INCENTIVE TO RUN NM+ and in large part it would be a failure. I"m sure a handful of people may but on the whole very few individuals would. As you suggested yourself they would just likely never see the content because EVEN WITH THE GREATER INCENTIVE raiding just has so little appeal.

- - - Updated - - -

People who actually like to play this game, and don't play it out of some sad addiction actually like playing with, and progressing with friends.

Is this a response to something? It's incredible vague and not clear.

[Socialhealer]

I imagine those numbers are just as bad yes. But that doesn't argue that raiding percentage increases with enormous incentive. Rather it just buttresses the argument that even with raiding as end game content having that enormous reward behind it people could still not be arsed to lvl, progress through the dungeons, do all the quests or any of that shit that lead up to it. Raiding is the ULTIMATE failure in trying to appeal to people and efforts to lure people to participate in NM+ (largely by gutting the rewards of mythic as they did in WoD) were abject failures. Sorry.

If people weren't willing to lvl, dungeon grind, quest grind in order to run the raids WHEN THOSE RAIDS HAD A NEAR MONOPOLY ON END GAME PROGRESSION what makes you think putting a skin behind it will drag them out?

again you've completely missed the point i asked for some numbers, not whatever you imagine.

you can call whatever you like a failure, thats just an opinion, i can call you a failure thats an opinion it's what i imagined, is that now correct or pointless babble? i think you know it's the latter.

[RoKPaNda]

It's their game, they're entitled to fuck it up however they want. They certainly did in WoD.

EN Normal difficulty is basically MoP LFR difficulty so what's the problem here? Grab that bull by the horns and join a PuG group.

Nope. Not jumping through hoops for some delusional idiot in the group finder and his idiotic requirements for a group, and certainly not making my own group because I've never been much of a raid leader. Manual group finding is an archaic system, and punishing players for not letting that nonsense die is beyond stupid.

LOL.

Killing off LFR like that would be suicide, hence weaning you off. Keep up. They don't want the LFR crybabies leaving en masse, they want to wind it down and transfer as many as possible to normal mode. It's almost like designers and management have differing views!

Lol they had LFR players leave en masse in WoD when they gutted LFR. They wanted those players back. LFR players will NEVER become raiders. There are blue quotes about how LFR players have never been raiders, and how when they're not given the option of casual content (ie LFR) they do NOT rise to the occasion and do organized raiding. They leave the game. LFR is here to stay, and LFR is what funds the creation of organized raiding. It would make far more sense to ween people off Mythic and drop that feature since so few people do it. But you and I both know they won't do that, because there is no reason to. LFR is here to stay for the same reasons.

[Glorious Leader]

again you've completely missed the point i asked for some numbers, not whatever you imagine.

you can call whatever you like a failure, thats just an opinion, i can call you a failure thats an opinion it's what i imagined, is that now correct or pointless babble? i think you know it's the latter.

I'm sure theirs some kind of logical failure being done here. Like you can't argue reason if you don't have the express numbers. I mean i'm a numbers guy personally I like evidence but in absence of that cause we all well know those won't be provided we can use a little bit of reason and logic to make reasonable assumptions. I don't think i've made any unreasonable ones but reasonable individuals may disagree. In any event it appears their would be no way to make you see any side of the argument that is not your own and nothing fruitful would come from such a discourse. Which actually makes me wonder why bother? If you're just going to plug your fingers in your ears and scream and shout BUT YOUS DUNT HAVE DEM NUBERZZZZ then why did you even bother engaging in this? Really it's at least 50% my fault. I should have known better. You know what it's fine. Raiding is the best. Everyone loves it everywhere. The whole world over just wants to be mythic raiders.

[FelPlague]

Yes, providing you earned said appearance while it was current.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/bli.../1100-6443041/

Here's the part
So will all Artifact Weapons disappear completely before the next expansion, even if players invest time in leveling them up?

Garraga: For players that did level up their Artifact Weapons and unlocked the special looks and all that, they earned those transmogs, so they can make future weapons almost like a badge of prestige. Say, "Hey, I was part of Legion, and I unlocked this prestige skin."

so your saying your so casual, 2 raid teirs from now, at the end of the expansion you STILL wont be able to pug normal emerald nightmare?

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, well, that's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it. I'm sure it's also an opinion shared by other raiders, but actual raiders, those who raid with their guild or a raid group, are a minority in this game, and I'm pretty sure quite a big chunk of the people who go to LFR would rather not go there at all.

Blizzard is forcing people into a raid environment in order to get the +20% mount speed, and obviously flying later on, and I'm pretty sure there are quite a few people out there who don't think that's fine at all. I'm not sure what kind of changes they've had over there at Blizzard but it seems someone there definitely seems to have a hard on for raids.

But, this is off topic to this thread, so I suppose we can wait until the shit hits the fan about flying being gated behind raiding and discuss it then.



Didn't someone just post a blue quote about the meta being able to be completed in LFR, hence it requires a raid?

i pugged a full clear of heroic emerald nightmare, so im sure many others can pug normal emerald nightmare at SOME POINT in this expansion

[Socialhealer]

precisely which is why lfr exists and why efforts to mitigate it's utility are foolhardy. It's also ironically expressly why efforts to encourage NM+ raiding would be and are ultimately failures. If tmmrw you removed it that would only INCREASE THE INCENTIVE TO RUN NM+ and in large part it would be a failure. I"m sure a handful of people may but on the whole very few individuals would.

LFR does what it does lets noobs see content, it doesn't need to offer more than that, and people whining they won't get an appearance is a joke, they won't get a mount from mythic, they won't get transmog from normal/hc/mythic etc, they won't get titles, FoS the list goes on.

why you think this is all just an attempt to push ppl into normal+ is a joke, normal+ has always had reasons and always will, they never gave out ANY rewards for LFR before why would they start now? all they allowed was completing of the legendary questline to obtain a legendary item which was very unique and a journey through the expansion, this time the quest is just an appearance not an item, therefore they don't need to give it out in LFR.

[FelPlague]

I am not against blizzards decision on this at all. I just posted a source to their official statement about it.

i know, i was being one of them <_<

[RoKPaNda]

precisely which is why lfr exists and why efforts to mitigate it's utility are foolhardy. It's also ironically expressly why efforts to encourage NM+ raiding would be and are ultimately failures. If tmmrw you removed it that would only INCREASE THE INCENTIVE TO RUN NM+ and in large part it would be a failure. I"m sure a handful of people may but on the whole very few individuals would. As you suggested yourself they would just likely never see the content because EVEN WITH THE GREATER INCENTIVE raiding just has so little appeal.

As a former raider, I understand that. Current raiders though have no idea how unappealing raiding is to someone that doesn't raid. It's not "just four hours a week." or whatever their guild spends raiding. It's the prep work for those raids and the time / schedule commitments as well. For some higher ilevel pixels? Never going to be worth it in the mind of the average player. And pugging normal, same thing, requires far too much effort to meet the requirements. The "form your own group." response is drivel as well, because anyone who has ever set foot in a raid knows that even if the content is easy, leading a group is frustrating.