"too much timesink" vs "no content"

[Deleted]

Do you think those words are combinable?

If there is nothing to do, we say there is "no content". Because you simply don't have the option to play the game an achieve something.

If there is something to do, you will do it and eventually you will achieve something. You can say "you beat the content".
The problem is now, if you achieve something too fast, you end up with "there is no content anymore".
If you achieve something too slow, you call it "the timesink is too hard".

So what you actually want is: You do the current content and after you beat it, you want new content ASAP.

So let's say: There is a raidtier which should last 3-4 months. But its nhc and hc version is usally cleared in the first ID. Even the mythic version is getting close to it. You can expect this content to be cleared in few weeks and after that, its a more or less senseless grind, because there is nothing else to beat (except m+, but it's loot is capped so its more or less prestige only).

I know, there are alot of guilds, who take much longer to clear hc and even mythic. You can forget about them, or you can specifically target those guilds, because I think alot of these people are actually those guys who say "timesink is too hard"

One of the best examples is the artefactpower. Is it a steady flow of content or just a stupid timesink? If its a timesink, if you would speed it up massively, you would be capped soon hence there won't be anything to do any more aka no content. I took this example, because alot of people say: you didn't complete mythic raiding, so there is still "content" to do. Artefactpower is basically something everybody wants, and everybody will get by doing varius kind of ingame activities.

[K4sk]

There's no such thing as too much timesink, or too much content. It's all a case of entitlement. People feel entitled to get to do everything and experience everything. People that work (myself included) quite often complain about all the world quests etc, it's hard to keep up with it coupled with running mythic+ and maybe raiding or pvping, you can almost forget about running an alt alongside your main these days. BUT THIS IS GOOD. There's content to do! People should be happy. I guess it's a case of OCD wanting everything completed.

[Echo of Soul]

The "I want it now. Now! NOW!!" crowd really shouldn't dictate anything in this game. If anything they could learn a thing or two from working hard for something over a long period of time.
If you can do everything a patch has to offer within the first two weeks those same people will start to complain about no content.

[Sinyc]

The problem is you have millions of people playing the same game. Each one of those unique players will play the game at a different pace.

The design challenge is to make as many of those people happy as you possibly can. 100% satisfaction is unrealistic and unobtainable.

People also feel entitled to gear, titles, skins, mounts, reputation factions, etc. And that is just not how this game, or the real world, works.

[Lei]

I think most people who want to be done with stuff asap are in different group to who then start whining that there is nothing to do. I would say people who eat all the cake on the first day and then cry for more are simply trolls, or their relationship with the game is unhealthy, and developers should not design the game for them. You are done with "everything" (what is everything?)? Good for you, now sit down and chill, 2 months and you'll get something. (BUT THEN GIVE US SOMETHING, unlike in WoD)
I, for one love being DONE with something and enjoy the fruit of my work before I start to work on something new and big. I patiently wait for new patches, well if there is any, so let's not count WoD. In mop, my only gripe with starter dailies were is 1. they gave little to no rep (well, hey, Legion ones give even less), and that they were gated behind GL.
I loved being done with my gear and then just do raids for guild fun. Being done is one of the most satisfying feelings. At least for me. Not anymore when the gear can proc, the outdoor content is gated, even pofessions are gated, rng is like 80% part of everything now. You can't be done, you can't sit and enjoy your work, there is always more (mostly factor to rng).

[Feindy]

WQs giving 75 rep is bullshit. can we finally have rep tabards back and work as fast as we want? rep rewards are useless before i get to them.
professions rank recipes is another bullshit. its useless for most items, slows down leveling professions (sometimes you cant even get skillups).

i think those 2 were added to slow down your progression and prolong the content. just like raids are being delayed by a month so they have more time to do some new shit

[Halicia]

Do you think those words are combinable?

Yes. I won't argue the specifics of this expansion, though... but in theory...

Picture a raid with only one boss in it... and an elevator at the beginning. Once everyone is on the elevator, it takes 4 weeks to reach the boss, IRL.

Numbers-wise, its a "long raid"... but in realiity, its just one big timesink lacking any real content.

Content takes longer to develop than to consume, so an MMO has to find efficient ways to get players to grind & repeat content while masking the overall repetitive nature of things. If anything, Blizzard has removed most of the timesinks previously in the game as quality of life issues.

[ItachiZaku]

This is an MMO, you should never and will never be "complete", even if you have 100% of the achievements, there is still more you can do. Always.

[Lei]

This is an MMO, you should never and will never be "complete", even if you have 100% of the achievements, there is still more you can do. Always.

I think you and I have different ideas about mmos.

[Cæli]

This is an MMO, you should never and will never be "complete", even if you have 100% of the achievements, there is still more you can do. Always.

You can be "complete" at a point of time if you're good and insane. Of course you'll miss things that gets retired, called "missable". And it's worth it. But realistically as long as they add content you'll always have things to do.

As for the game, feels like they're trying to find the right spot, the right balance, too much content vs too little content, now there is for sure a LOT of content, but I think the solution for them is to play with temporary content. Make collectible (permanent) content actually possible to achieve + make gear and entertaining content, gear, raiding, leaderboards (temporary) and make a LOT of that. That's how they'll achieve the best balance in my opinion.

[Samin]

Interesting, I just think there's too much to do. Not in terms of timesink, but just in available content. It's not really something I'm used to especially not from WoW, that I just don't do everything available to me. I started out doing that and it burnt me out quickly once I had 3 characters with world quests unlocked.

I don't want to have to do less for more rewards in turn though. That's silly. I just realize how fine the line between "nothing to do" and "too much to do" can be. I think this expansion is tuned for playing a main and maybe an alt. Altoholics will have to seriously adjust and "profession-alting" also isn't as lucrative as it used to be (that's half the reason I have so many alts). Please note that I talked about adjusting, not "omg make everything account wide to support my altoholism".

[Cæli]

I, for one love being DONE with something and enjoy the fruit of my work before I start to work on something new and big.

I loved being done with my gear and then just do raids for guild fun. Being done is one of the most satisfying feelings. At least for me. Not anymore when the gear can proc, the outdoor content is gated, even pofessions are gated, rng is like 80% part of everything now. You can't be done, you can't sit and enjoy your work, there is always more (mostly factor to rng).

That's what I call being a collector. And I'm sure a lot of players are collector. And a lot are potential collectors. Maybe we can all be collectors. Those who are not collectors don't know what they are missing out. Such satisfaction is truly good, maybe it's some kind of drug created in the brain : P

That said I don't think we should consider gear as something to collect or to aim for, you can't be done on gear, and you don't need to in order to feel that satisfaction, because gear will always be temporary. No matter how good your gear, some better gear will come out. Achievements or other collectable on the contrary are permanent.
If you really want to max your gear and be done, I think this is where you should consider you're a human and human have limits, it's like on racing game, the best possible time is 00:00:00, but as a human you can only try to do your best.

[Lei]

I was kind of happy with WoD, Log in, Raid, Log off "design choices". I've played this game for so long it was just a nice change, not having to do stuff every day.

Now in Legion it just feels too different, when there are so many World Quests and if you don't do them they'll stack up for couple of days (Emissary's). And then you have a ton more stuff to do. I kind of feel like Legion would be a much more fun expansion back then when everyone had so much more time to commit in a game.

Maybe have less World Quests every day, like 10-15 at max, which would still stack up to 30-45 in the following days..?

People haven't realised that they don't need to do all WQs. For what? Order hall resources? 75 rep? Well 75 rep is not that bad (it is, but I get over on myself) till revered, but when you hit reverd, that 75 rep will be worthless.

That said I don't think we should consider gear as something to collect or to aim for, you can't be done on gear, and you don't need to in order to feel that satisfaction, because gear will always be temporary. No matter how good your gear, some better gear will come out. Achievements or other collectable on the contrary are permanent.

To me this thought is weird. Up till...................... ToT you could be done with your gear. You went to raid, you had a "shopping list", you got everything, and then 1-2 months later (depending on how good your guild was) a new raid came. Then you started over. But now you can't get a normal bracer and say THANK GOD at least this slot is done, no, next week you maybe get a warforged, oh oh but then how about a socketed warforged? And now in Legion, it can even superproc and it's ilevel can be anything.

[Otimus]

There's something to be said as time gating existing as a way to just keep you subscribed longer and nothing more. Other than that, most complaints are pretty merit-less. (I really don't get how people can defend time gating (or weekly limits, or anything of that nature, you'll often see some people chalk that up as protecting people from themselves, too, but that's just silly and just a secondary reason, and you totally know it.) in a subscription game. It's something you -accept- as reality, as a reality of the genre and the model, but hardly something you defend. That's just a weird mix up of priorities, IMHO, yet, we get TONS of people defending that. It's not something one should COMPLAIN about. But defending it? That's just weird).

[ItachiZaku]

I think you and I have different ideas about mmos.

An MMO is a world. Just like IRL, you can get more. You can always get more.

[Cæli]

An MMO is a world. Just like IRL, you can get more. You can always get more.

No, there is a limit because the number of collectible in the game is finite. Until they add more. Which is why the game interests completionist so much. For a MMO it's a good one to pour time into because you can actually complete a collection with efforts, and in the end it's worth it.

[purebalance]

Timesink isn't content. If they wanted the content to last they should have made it hard and also gotten rid of all of these easy modes. Inb4 "oh that worked well in Cata/Wildstar" when cata sub loss had nothing to do with difficulty and Wildstar's failure had nothing to do with difficulty. The days when you actually had to work on a boss over weeks is what we need to bring this game back to for ALL players. If you don't like it, perhaps this isn't the game for you rather than people perverting the game.

[Lei]

An MMO is a world. Just like IRL, you can get more. You can always get more.

In real life when you get something, it's real. Not in it's original meaning, hear me out. Killing the same boss for the 13th time and then getting a superprocced/titanforged/socketed gear is not getting more. It's the illusion of getting more. And seems like this illusion is okay for some people. In old days killing the boss itself was the getting more, not chasing rng gear for the next tier. When you killed a boss, and it dropped gear, you got that gear and you were golden. Now? "Fuck this, Jason (the other hunter who is usually a tard in these examples) got 2 socketed titanforged gear and I only got a basic!".
Putting everything behind rng is not motivating to get more. Some elements with rng is perfectly fine, but when everything has rng in it, that's just heartbreaking.

Why couldn't they pace Legion reputations in a way whre they give 250 rep per WQ, and then maybe require exalted for pathfinder? In effort, both would take the same time, but when you get 250 rep, you feel accomplished. YEEEY 250 rep! Getting 75 rep is like, meh.

[Lochton]

This is an MMO, you should never and will never be "complete", even if you have 100% of the achievements, there is still more you can do. Always.

That I have to agree with, and even at that, this is an MMO and you will, and should never be able to consume content too fast, so time gating is fine at sections.

[Cæli]

To me this thought is weird. Up till...................... ToT you could be done with your gear. You went to raid, you had a "shopping list", you got everything, and then 1-2 months later (depending on how good your guild was) a new raid came. Then you started over. But now you can't get a normal bracer and say THANK GOD at least this slot is done, no, next week you maybe get a warforged, oh oh but then how about a socketed warforged? And now in Legion, it can even superproc and it's ilevel can be anything.

This is why you can't be "done" with gear. If you really want gear to be part of a "collection", try to think of it as a power amount, and try to reach maybe 90% of your maximum possible power, since 100% is not possible, it's not something a human can do.