Call to topple Christopher Columbus statue from its Barcelona perch

[Sunseeker]

Nice generalization. Did Washington and Jefferson rape and murder people. Did they give them to their supporters as sex slaves?

Jefferson was a known philanderer, and a great deal of indigenous American tribes were destroyed while both were Presidents. They did some great things, but were far from pristine.

[nextormento]

They resisted Franco's Imperialism during the Civil War.

That's fascinating: you think they're fighting what they wrongly imagine Spain to be, while also reinventing their own past?.
Catalonia was subjugated and oppressed. We all were.
They resisted the national advance. We all did.
Spain, and Catalonia within it, had people fighting against each other, not some extraneous party: brother against brother, Spaniards against Spaniards, Catalans against Catalans. It was a civil war, not an invasion.

Rejecting Francoist Spain is not reflective of Catalan culture in any way different than it is for the rest of Spain, or the entire world for that mater.
Just like rejecting Hitler is not part of Polish culture anymore than it is for the vast majority of humanity.

Besides, for such an atrocious regime, Franco was pretty boring for a fascist. He didn't even try and invade Portugal, or retake Gibraltar or something. A regime characterized by isolation is hardly "Imperial".

[spinner981]

You know what. Let's just replace everything with Harriet Tubman. 20 dollar bill? Harriet Tubman. Christopher Columbus statue? Harriet Tubman. Ten Commandments? Nope, Harriet Tubman. Washington Redskins? Not any more, Harriet Tubman. Lincoln Memorial? Well, he was pretty cool, but he was still white sooooo... Harriet Tubman.

Just think of how open-minded America will be.

[Kronik85]

That's fascinating: you think they're fighting what they wrongly imagine Spain to be, while also reinventing their own past?.
Catalonia was subjugated and oppressed. We all were.
They resisted the national advance. We all did.
Spain, and Catalonia within it, had people fighting against each other, not some extraneous party: it was a civil war, not an invasion.

Rejecting Francoist Spain is not reflective of Catalan culture in any way different than it is for the rest of Spain, or the entire world for that mater.
Just like rejecting Hitler is not part of Polish culture anymore than it is for the vast majority of humanity.

Besides, for such an atrocious regime, Franco was pretty boring for a fascist. He didn't even try and invade Portugal, or retake Gibraltar or something. A regime characterized by isolation is hardly "Imperial".

There is nothing revisionary about it lol. What an incredibly myopic grasp of spanish history you have.

[Hooked]

I think the martin luther king statue should be torn down because it offends me.

[brob]

The Columbus statue is fine. Feel free to make additional statues, as opposed to expunging things that hurt your feelings.

ii wonder how the sculptures familys feel.

[nextormento]

There is nothing revisionary about it lol. What an incredibly myopic grasp of spanish history you have.

Let me remind you that the war was nationalists against republicans. Not Catalonia against Franco.
Some Catalans fought on one side, some on the other.
Nationalists won the war. We all lost. It is actually hard to find people who didn't have relatives on both sides. Catalonia is no different in that regard.

Pretending Catalan rejection of Francoist Spain is any different than Spanish rejection of Francoist Spain is not only historical revision: it's frankly stupid.

[Jacpierre]

Jefferson was a known philanderer, and a great deal of indigenous American tribes were destroyed while both were Presidents. They did some great things, but were far from pristine.

A "known philanderer" huh. You have some actual proof to back that up?

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The guys demanding this statue be removed, which is what i thought we were talking about. As far as falling ass backwards, hardly a unique occurrence in history. Francisco Pizzaro's conquest of the Incas would read like slapstick if there weren't so much death involved.

And we do not name cities after him, nor celebrate him on days. There are plenty of people throughout history who are known for their horrors. I don't understand why Columbus is not one of those people. And as someone else pointed out, the people demanding it be removed are not doing so out of white guilt.

[Sunseeker]

A "known philanderer" huh. You have some actual proof to back that up?

Old research I did years ago, and pages and pages and pages of google results: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...rson%20affairs

[JohnBrown1917]

Isn't that exactly the problem for this party? He represents Spanish Imperialism which has nothing to do with the culture of Catalonia but serves as a reminder of their historical and current oppression. I know you guys love to tilt at these imagined SJW Dragons but whilst the culture of Barcelona is definitely leftist this petition has nothing to do with SJWism, it's actually nationalism.

Has been repeated a few times here(in other wording), but just keeps getting ignored.

[Deleted]

I doubt 1 person in a thousand could name the guy standing on that of that statue when walking by it.

Also, very tired of these left-wing anarchists with nothing to live for but annoying others.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

A "known philanderer" huh. You have some actual proof to back that up?

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And we do not name cities after him, nor celebrate him on days. There are plenty of people throughout history who are known for their horrors. I don't understand why Columbus is not one of those people. And as someone else pointed out, the people demanding it be removed are not doing so out of white guilt.

I was calling attention to the accidental and near miraculous nature of Pizzaro's success, not the killing, which happens in any conquest. We pay less attention to him because conquering a small empire, while no small feat, pales in significance to discovering two new continents.

As to this particular case, I conceded the point the motivations of these separatists are less contemptible than the larger white guilt crowd. They are however still using the standard white guilt argument, so the arguments themselves are subject to the same eye-roll.

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Has been repeated a few times here(in other wording), but just keeps getting ignored.

Except when it hasn't, but I'll allow for the possibility you didn't read every post on this thread and might not have seen it. You aught to give the same benefit of the doubt to the people who are responding to the original post and may not know the particulars of this situation.

[nextormento]

Has been repeated a few times here(in other wording), but just keeps getting ignored.

It's not ignored. But it's major bullshit salted with highly debatable opinions.

In their cultural struggles, Catalonia has tried to appropriate Columbus. Particularly through the hypothesis that he was born there and spoke Catalan. It is an obscure hypothesis, and very detached from any consensus, mind you. But its veracity is of no concern. What's interesting is that the -nationalist- Catalan government endorses and publicizes it.
This view, of course, is not representative of all Catalans. But it throws a wrench into the whole "Columbus is nor part of Catalan culture": he is, and they've worked to secure his figure as part of their heritage.

Their "historical and current oppression" is a matter of opinion and a matter of constitutional procedures. Catalans are divided on the issue, as are all Spaniards.

[JohnBrown1917]

Except when it hasn't, but I'll allow for the possibility you didn't read every post on this thread and might not have seen it. You aught to give the same benefit of the doubt to the people who are responding to the original post and may not know the particulars of this situation.

Already did.

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It's not ignored. But it's major bullshit salted with highly debatable opinions.

In their cultural struggles, Catalonia has tried to appropriate Columbus. Particularly through the hypothesis that he was born there and spoke Catalan. It is an obscure hypothesis, and very detached from any consensus, mind you. But its veracity is of no concern. What's interesting is that the -nationalist- Catalan government endorses and publicizes it.
This view, of course, is not representative of all Catalans. But it throws a wrench into the whole "Columbus is nor part of Catalan culture": he is, and they've worked to secure his figure as part of their heritage.

Their "historical and current oppression" is a matter of opinion and a matter of constitutional procedures. Catalans are divided on the issue, as are all Spaniards.

And it should be obvious what camp those who want it torn down are it, and its unrelated to sjw-nonsense.

[satimy]

Trump will be their reckoning

[Liftbrul]

What a bunch of witless ninnies.

[JohnBrown1917]

Trump will be their reckoning

You're going to have to explain that one.

[Shadowferal]

Columbus is worth remembering for the impact he's had in history. But there needs to be less glorifying and more vilifying, and remembering his victims.

[Deleted]

An incompetent dickhead?

Yet he achieved more than you can ever dream to do.

When you're dead, no one will give a shit. At least people remember his name.

[Zecora]

Just add a plaque at the bottom explaining what he really was.

This, basically. There's nothing wrong with having imagery of awful people from history, so long as you make it clear that they were awful.