Let's talk about Il'gynoth and his whispers (various spoilers)

[Maletalana]

Interesting read. The one real exception I take is that you seem to think every story element has to be an M. Night Shamalamadingdong curveball. Sometimes the most obvious path is, in fact, the best path.

Specifically, in regards to Anduin/Wrathion, If either of these if the boy-king in question, it would make more sense that it's Anduin. Regardless of whose agenda we may think Wrathion is more against, I can't imagine that he would be like "Yo, let me just cuddle up to all these mofos who corrupted and nearly completely obliterated my entire race." Especially when both sides are essential after the same thing; Azeroth's destruction. That's a twist that doesn't make sense.

Now maybe Wrathion is corrupted too. Well, that's boring as hell also, having to worry about Deathwing Jr.

And Dragons don't refer to their leaders as kings, typically.

I just don't see an interesting and feasible way that Wrathion is that boy-king in question.

I like this idea. I will admit my wrathion = boy-king is my weakest argument. Not based on what i laid out but how i really feel about that one. I'm iffy on my own one there... 60/40 wrathion/anduin.

thanks for the reply, everything else i talked about sound decent?

[Kallisto]

But what Old Gods also say, is things to come or things that have passed. These aren't threats, they're hints to the future. And they're usually always true.

When have they been true?

"The night elves will end the world." To Nelfarion? Nope.

Seriously people say "They usually tell the truth." yet don't give a truthful quote. Hell the only clearly truthful thing they have said is that they will help Azshara survive the collapse of her palace.

[Supersomething]

When have they been true?

"The night elves will end the world." To Nelfarion? Nope.

Seriously people say "They usually tell the truth." yet don't give a truthful quote. Hell the only clearly truthful thing they have said is that they will help Azshara survive the collapse of her palace.

Well in regards to Yogg'Saron all of the visions we saw in there either previously happened or were in the process of happening. Old gods are agents of chaos and discontent so naturally not everything they say or show us will be true but some of it will be or is actually happening in a way that is beyond our control. The idea being that the mere thought of this being true is supposed to break your will and cause you to submit to the madness.

[3DTyrant]

"Flesh is his gift. He is your true creator."
"From the earth, he draws strength. Our earth. Our strength."

Have we established who "he" is? N'Zoth?

[Kallisto]

"Flesh is his gift. He is your true creator."
"From the earth, he draws strength. Our earth. Our strength."

Have we established who "he" is? N'Zoth?

Chronicles put that as mostly a Yogg-Saron thing

[Deleted]

Hehe , just registered for this topic .. I already apologize for my poor English , it's not my native language ^^ Anyway , are you ready for some crazy theories ?

What about some of those whispers are linked ? I mean Il Gynoth is a two part entity , made with a big Eye and a Heart , we may need to read two by two some of his "revelations". Here we go :

"Five keys to open our way. Five torches light our path." and "The Lord of Ravens will turn the key." => Seems obvious that Khadgar will use the 5 pillars of creation and causes something unexpected.

"To find him, drown yourself in the Circle of Stars." and "Its surface blazes light, masking shadow below." => Could be the Nighwell ? Surface blazes , liquid so you could drown, and if you go deep below , you could find "him" ( N zoth ? ) ..

"The boy-king serves at the master's table. Three lies will he offer you." and "The King of Diamonds has been made a pawn." I first thought that the boy-king was obviously Anduin , but .. How old is a boy for the Old Gods ? Can't it be Magni ? May be he already offered us a lie , by the Azeroth speach bout the pillars to close the portal ? And how they know about he's a pawn , if they are not part of ? And remember , "lies" are not always words. It might be an item or something like that.

"Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it." and "At the hour of her third death, she ushers in our coming." Even if I love the theory about Azeroth's heart for the first one, i can't link those two part if I consider "she" as Azeroth ( and it would mess up my crazy theory xD ). Crazy stuff here , but "she" could be Jaina. The first part is obvious , we all know what happened in Theramore. But , if we continue with her heart , can't we tell she died twice, when she lost her first love Arthas and after Rhonin ? If i'm right , she will lose a 3rd beloved person, and do something wrong , leading to the old gods's goals.


"Flesh is his gift. He is your true creator." and "From the earth, he draws strength. Our earth. Our strength." Well , i have no clue right now , but at least both of those quotes speak about "He". Even if the flesh is Yogg stuff , i can't imagine Yogg coming again and be the "He' , at least in the 2nd part.

So , tell me about the last one and the others ! Remember, it's still just my ideas , and even if the "two by two" idea is 99% sure wrong , there is still some points I want to hear you on , like Magni for the boy-king and the Jaina's two deaths ^^

[Engal]

" To find him , drown yourself into a circle of stars "

Maybe he's talking about... Illidan? Since apparently Guldan want's to channel the spirit of Sargeras inside him and his using the Nightwell for that, he could really be that we will find " him " inside the nightwell... ?

[MikeBogina]

When have they been true?

"The night elves will end the world." To Nelfarion? Nope.

Seriously people say "They usually tell the truth." yet don't give a truthful quote. Hell the only clearly truthful thing they have said is that they will help Azshara survive the collapse of her palace.

The night elves invited the Legion into the world...


And we're talking about the cryptic mysteries they tell us.

[DesoPL]

" To find him , drown yourself into a circle of stars "

Maybe he's talking about... Illidan? Since apparently Guldan want's to channel the spirit of Sargeras inside him and his using the Nightwell for that, he could really be that we will find " him " inside the nightwell... ?

If this might be true... Then demon hunters should move on to Suramar as well to save his senpai. :P

[shadowblazr]

Jaina is one of the most important characters of warcraft's modern era.
She historically was pretty peaceful (even with all the shit happening to her).
With varian and Tirion dead (or at best vanished), she is the last historical and important figure of the Alliance.

Bring her down, and I'm pretty sure the Alliance would fall.

Even if she's anfry with Kadghar's choice, she also is an eminent member of the Kirin Tor and one of the most powerfull mages on Azeroth. She really looks like a suitable target for the Old gods, imo.

I mostly get my lore from WoW although I do try to read up on stuff from books or the original Warcraft trilogy and watching Nobbel's vids so maybe Jaina's importance is just something that hasn't struck much significance to me, or at least not significant enough for Old Gods to have major plans for corrupting her.

Going off topic now, I kind of wish Jaina was more relevant in Legion. I liked how during the Broken Shore event her and Greymane kind of shared similar distrust of the Horde and they seemed close. They have so many similarities and what not with their home towns being destroyed and their hatred for the Horde. Would have been nice to have Genn search for her or at least be concerned about her and have the two of them form some sort of friendship.

[Deleted]

I dont see problem where she could be both.

Then you have issues with spotting obvious contradictions.

I wouldn't pursue a career as an attorney or a detective if I were you.

[Grenzstein]

Could N'zoth be under the nightwell? That would be fun. We kill Gul'dan and Elisandre only to have N'zoth rising from the Nightwell. That would be a great start for the next raid tier.

[steelballfc]

the possibility of jaina being kidnapped 2 exp ago is too damn high

[Uyuic]

but I live peacefully, in the barrens, alone in the desert.

Why not.. in the mountains?

[steelballfc]

Why not.. in the mountains?

I'm female orc who is afraid of heights

[Crashen]

Hehe , just registered for this topic .. I already apologize for my poor English , it's not my native language ^^ Anyway , are you ready for some crazy theories ?

What about some of those whispers are linked ? I mean Il Gynoth is a two part entity , made with a big Eye and a Heart , we may need to read two by two some of his "revelations". Here we go :

"Five keys to open our way. Five torches light our path." and "The Lord of Ravens will turn the key." => Seems obvious that Khadgar will use the 5 pillars of creation and causes something unexpected.

"To find him, drown yourself in the Circle of Stars." and "Its surface blazes light, masking shadow below." => Could be the Nighwell ? Surface blazes , liquid so you could drown, and if you go deep below , you could find "him" ( N zoth ? ) ..

"The boy-king serves at the master's table. Three lies will he offer you." and "The King of Diamonds has been made a pawn." I first thought that the boy-king was obviously Anduin , but .. How old is a boy for the Old Gods ? Can't it be Magni ? May be he already offered us a lie , by the Azeroth speach bout the pillars to close the portal ? And how they know about he's a pawn , if they are not part of ? And remember , "lies" are not always words. It might be an item or something like that.

"Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it." and "At the hour of her third death, she ushers in our coming." Even if I love the theory about Azeroth's heart for the first one, i can't link those two part if I consider "she" as Azeroth ( and it would mess up my crazy theory xD ). Crazy stuff here , but "she" could be Jaina. The first part is obvious , we all know what happened in Theramore. But , if we continue with her heart , can't we tell she died twice, when she lost her first love Arthas and after Rhonin ? If i'm right , she will lose a 3rd beloved person, and do something wrong , leading to the old gods's goals.


"Flesh is his gift. He is your true creator." and "From the earth, he draws strength. Our earth. Our strength." Well , i have no clue right now , but at least both of those quotes speak about "He". Even if the flesh is Yogg stuff , i can't imagine Yogg coming again and be the "He' , at least in the 2nd part.

So , tell me about the last one and the others ! Remember, it's still just my ideas , and even if the "two by two" idea is 99% sure wrong , there is still some points I want to hear you on , like Magni for the boy-king and the Jaina's two deaths ^^

The part about drown yourself in a circle of stars, and its surface blazes light masking darkness beneath almost sounds like it is referencing what we went through to find the light's heart. In fact, the crater the lights heart left looked.... weird.

Also: does anyone have transcripts of the pamphlets the doomsayers handed out during the legion launch event? There may be cryptic, tenuous clues hidden inside.

[nnelson54]

With recent facts collected during Legion we can cleary say she is by 99%. Nope she is not just God or similiar entity she is worshiped by taurens some dwarfs and pandarens as earthmother. Also another reference from emerald nightmare : From the earth he draws strength. Our Earth. Our Strength. can refers to her.

Just your ignorance of lore mate. :-)

There is nothing in Legion that even remotely suggests that Elune is Azeroth.

[Ratyrel]

Could N'zoth be under the nightwell? That would be fun. We kill Gul'dan and Elisandre only to have N'zoth rising from the Nightwell. That would be a great start for the next raid tier.

The Nightwell should be a wound in Azeroth, so an outlet for titan blood. That would mean that N'zoth is in Azeroth's blood, like Leukaemia.

There is nothing in Legion that even remotely suggests that Elune is Azeroth.

In addition, the cutscene in Val'sharah positively shows that Elune is simply the damn moon...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUuy9SYrWJs

[kendro1200]

Theramore left a pretty good crater, and the rest of the lines seems actually very literal..

The Well of Eternity is/was also a pretty good crater, and was filled. Old Gods fell from the sky and landed on Azeroth (create a crater), the Well of Eternity was created when Y'shraaj was pulled out of Azeroth and then filled with life blood of a titan. When the waters of the Well were about to consume Azshara and her highborne, whispers came to Azshara that were assumed to be from the Old Gods telling her that they could remake her better and stronger.

Jaina is probably the most likely, but Azeroth herself, as Magni refers to Azeroth as female, may be what the whisper from Il'gynoth refers to. The literal translation fits just as well.

[Samin]

There is a lot of discussions about which Lord of Ravens and whose Crater the whispers are talking about.

But one thing everyone seems unquestioning adamant(hehe) about is The King of Diamonds being Magni. What if he isn't. If you assume the whispers aren't so straight forward that Lord of Ravens = Lord Ravencrest, then why go with the waaay too obvious choice of Magni for the King of Diamonds. Maybe it's a metaphor. Or some other character. Seriously, I'm not trying to reverse psychology an argument that Lord of Ravens is Lord Ravencrest, I think the other interpretations all have merit. But Magni is eaten up too easily by the community.

I love the speculation (even though I think it's not as complex/twisted as many assume :P), I want more of it. Don't be deceived by the obvious choices, they're too easy and only there to distract you from the true path!