I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[Deleted]

Wow u actually have to do something to improve your charakter and you can t just afk leech it on LFR, how cocky ist that?

[Otimus]

So, if a new player kills 1 npc, logs off, deletes his accouut he's a pve player? You wish.

Yes. Of course. What the hell else would they be? Seriously. PVE is player versus environment. Not "Doing raids". What in the world? Are you making up weird new definitions?

[Veshx]

You're half right, Cata was when the subs started dropping, however LFR wasn't introduced until the end of Cata. The effect of LFR was actually to temporarily stop the sub loss (subs the quarter after LFR was introduced were roughly the same as they were the quarter it was released, the first time subs hadn't dropped in a year). The subs started dropping again later (as endless dragon soul killed people).

The trend is: Subs have been going down since Cata.

There for the tool of LFR to "save sub count" didn't and hasn't worked.

[purebalance]

What the hell else would they be? They're certainly not PVPing. Someone who only quests and never does a single dungeon or levels above level 50 is a PVE player :x

They're more like PwE(with) rather than versus. I did get a laugh last night at the 90% of the LFR group dying to Il'gynoth because they stayed in and then on the next attempt they left at like 50% time left because they were just too horrible to time a cast bar filling up. Meanwhile after they all died the first time I stayed alive with 1 healer as a destro lock for about a good minute or so(healer died after 30 seconds of that minute). Also love the tanks comment of "This just came out today how am I supposed to know what they do?!?" even though the information has been in DJ in game for a month now and the info itself has been around for months. So I guess in reality I guess they are PvP since they are holding others back.

[Propainn]

Yes. Of course. What the hell else would they be? Seriously. PVE is player versus environment. Not "Doing raids". What in the world? Are you making up weird new definitions?

Gotta agree on this. It might be trivial content, but it's definitely PvE. Though I guess it could be PvP if they mean pixel vs pixel.

[purebalance]

Yes. Of course. What the hell else would they be? Seriously. PVE is player versus environment. Not "Doing raids". What in the world? Are you making up weird new definitions?

Sorry that's on the level of calling a water boy a football player. I mean technically he's taking part in the game isn't he. He MUST be a football player.

[Otimus]

They're more like PwE(with) rather than versus. I did get a laugh last night at the 90% of the LFR group dying to Il'gynoth because they stayed in and then on the next attempt they left at like 50% time left because they were just too horrible to time a cast bar filling up. Meanwhile after they all died the first time I stayed alive with 1 healer as a destro lock for about a good minute or so(healer died after 30 seconds of that minute). Also love the tanks comment of "This just came out today how am I supposed to know what they do?!?" even though the information has been in DJ in game for a month now and the info itself has been around for months. So I guess in reality I guess they are PvP since they are holding others back.

Now you're just twisting reality so you can make fun of people.

[Nokami]

Like paying 1000 gold?

That would be more effort than LFR...

All these crybabies, how would you play in something like Vanilla, BC or even Wotlk?
There you could not get good Gear or cool looking items without Raiding or time consuming activitys and being a decent Player.
Now you get all your lovely gear through faceroll World Quests and LFR and even now you cry for a COSMETIC... holy.

This Generation of "give me anything for not any fuck of effort or riot" is simply laughable.

[Igi]

Yes. Of course. What the hell else would they be? Seriously. PVE is player versus environment. Not "Doing raids". What in the world? Are you making up weird new definitions?

Great, new addition to my "top 10 idiotic comments on mmo-champion". I guess I'm also an astronaut because i own a telescope, barber because i shave, chef because i cook 1 meal every week, banker because i have my own money, etc...

[Otimus]

Sorry that's on the level of calling a water boy a football player. I mean technically he's taking part in the game isn't he. He MUST be a football player.

No, that's not how that works. PVE isn't raids only, dude. It's a gameplay design.

You're arguing emotions, and I'm arguing the facts of the way the game functions. Might as well say if you didn't level to cap, you've never played WoW or something, which is just silly.

[Deleted]

The trend is: Subs have been going down since Cata.

There for the tool of LFR to "save sub count" didn't and hasn't worked.

Thats a dump argument even tho i also think LFR is destroying the game. But this is like arguing that there are way more deaths in car accidents than 100 years ago in 1916 and there for the tool of security belts and airbags to "save lifes in car accident" hasn t worked.

[Deleted]

I did N EN on launch day as a warm up, the difficulty of the challenge isn't the issue. It's the fact it's so out of keeping with the rest of the skin unlocks, not only does it block 82% of the player base from getting that skin it blocks them from the entire skin row and it's not even the most awkward one to obtain on that row.

You shouldn't have to do organised raiding in order to unlock the ability to unlock the skins form dungeons and world elite. That's just stupid. It would be like if unlocking dungeon set 2 had required players to be in full tier.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Blizzard shat the bed royally on this one.

#1 - It's not blocking 82% of players from getting it. Just because ~18% of players cleared a normal raid in previous expansion, nothing is stopping people from raiding in this expansion except their own decision not to do so.
#2 - This is what' unlocks that SKIN. Then there are other things that can unlock different RECOLORS of this specific skin. I say it makes perfect sense to have something harder unlock the actual skins, and then having smaller things unlock a different color for that skin. Don't see what's stupid about that?

[Otimus]

Great, new addition to my "top 10 idiotic comments on mmo-champion". I guess I'm also an astronaut because i own a telescope, barber because i shave, chef because i cook 1 meal every week, banker because i have my own money, etc...

How in the hell is someone killing an NPC not PVE? What in the world else is it? They're killing NPC's, dude. He's not a raider, but he is actively participating in what is defined as PVE content. He is engaged in PVE combat. What in the world else are they doing?

You don't get to make up definitions for things.

Like, seriously, if he isn't PVEing, what the hell else is he doing?

Nothing-ing?

[caervek]

The trend is: Subs have been going down since Cata.

There for the tool of LFR to "save sub count" didn't and hasn't worked.

It temporarily stopped the sub loss and the following sub loss would have been much higher without it.

Seriously, subs hit what 5.5m in WoD? (honestly cannot remember), only 40% of that 5.5m was doing normal or higher.

Do you think 2.2m subs alone would have enticed Blizz to spend as much time/money on Legion and make it as good as it is?

[Socialhealer]

Raiding did exist prior to lfr as a gross inequity with raiders and the content they participated in largely being subsidized by the masses who never participated in it or even saw it. It was of course largely unsustainable, nobody likes it when the golden goose gives up it's last egg and only existed so long as subscriber churn was on the upswing and the people were taking their long slow time lvling which they promptly neutered. Basically at some point around wotlk more and more folks started hitting max lvl and needed to be entertained at max lvl. How would you propose they be entertained if not for lfr? Note that any non lfr suggestion will require the developers take time, money, manpower away from making raids.

Again you still have yet to address the point. If as you suggest lfr were removed and people by and large will simple not see that content how can you also suggest increased incentives work? Removing lfr would be a fairly large incentive to run NM+ i should think but according to you it would simple result in nobody seeing that raid content instead of jumping up presumably.

still on your own agenda i never said remove LFR you just think everyone says that, keep just making up what other people said to support your own bias though.

[K4sk]

If LFR rewarded the skin, you might as well remove the quest chain and have it be a clickable object in the class hall, just about the same amount of effort required.

[Otimus]

Sorry that's on the level of calling a water boy a football player. I mean technically he's taking part in the game isn't he. He MUST be a football player.

Except it isn't like that at all. It's like calling a person in the football stadium a person in the football stadium (PVEer in PVE content) and the football player a member of the football team. (Raider in raiding content, but is also a person in the football stadium as well.)

This is seriously the weirdest argument I've ever seen. PVE = players killing NPC's in the environment.

Raiding = organized groups killing NPC's in an organized environment.

They're both the same thing, but the other is not the ONLY thing.

Might as well say that someone who hasn't gotten to line 100 or something hasn't played Tetris. It makes virtually no sense. You're putting arbitrary limits on things to define something that's just a game design concept by associating it with activities.

[Xenodrake]

It temporarily stopped the sub loss and the following sub loss would have been much higher without it.

Seriously, subs hit what 5.5m in WoD? (honestly cannot remember), only 40% of that 5.5m was doing normal or higher.

Do you think 2.2m subs alone would have enticed Blizz to spend as much time/money on Legion and make it as good as it is?

I have not sub in this game since the token has come out. Using gold for account time is way easy and no money out of pocket to me just say 30 minutes of herb farming.

[Ilnezhara]

Then pug normal?

I'm so happy about this, something that us raiders get that not everyone will have makes the time invested in organizing a raid feel a little more worth it.

[caervek]

I have not sub in this game since the token has come out.

You still have a paid sub, it's just somebody else paid for it then gave it to you for some gold.