Single Target Nerf is unacceptable

[Maletalana]

Thanks. Makes sense, I think.

The 75th percentile is where you end up when you have gear that's enough for the content and perform well. Anything above that is a result of better gear and better perfomance. Top guilds would be looking at the 95% percentile, as they generally put way more effort into their character.

That about it?

Yep! You want to work your way up and progress into the 75th percentile, and once you get higher than that, you are in the hardcore group, mythic raiding, others will seek your builds and coaching.

- - - Updated - - -

confirmed.

woohoo glad I was coherent!

[Novakhoro]

Main DH, Fury of Illidari could be flat out abused. The Fel Mastery nerf is pretty shite, but the DH community brought it upon themselves. They said they felt "forced" to take it. And admit it - Bloodlet was fucking broken. We are fine, we are still amazing damage and if you're worried about losing your spot on a 20man roster the solution can be found in yourself. And.... At least we aren't Frost DK's amirite?

[Shirofune]

Main DH, Fury of Illidari could be flat out abused. The Fel Mastery nerf is pretty shite, but the DH community brought it upon themselves. They said they felt "forced" to take it. And admit it - Bloodlet was fucking broken. We are fine, we are still amazing damage and if you're worried about losing your spot on a 20man roster the solution can be found in yourself. And.... At least we aren't Frost DK's amirite?

Yeah, but even taking all those "broken" talents, our ST was middle of the pack. Without them, we wer even shittier.

And yes, Bloodlet was overtuned, but it was the only thing we had to do DPS. Is not our fault the other two were underperforming at all. Nerfing Bloodlet without buffing the other talents ain't an option, not if they want to leave DH ST as it was.

[Deleted]

Main DH, Fury of Illidari could be flat out abused. The Fel Mastery nerf is pretty shite, but the DH community brought it upon themselves. They said they felt "forced" to take it. And admit it - Bloodlet was fucking broken. We are fine, we are still amazing damage and if you're worried about losing your spot on a 20man roster the solution can be found in yourself. And.... At least we aren't Frost DK's amirite?

Really? i`m confused. On ST, we were ok, nothing amazing, but decent. This is a flat out st nerf, moving us lower down, sure we can still compete, but why wern`t other classes who were better than us on ST last week, also nerfed in some way?

If they are going to nerf our ST damage just to cripple our aoe, at least buff our abilities which only hit one target, to balance.

[Raikh]

We lost like 3-4% ST damage. If you lose more than 10% you should check your gameplay instead of blaming the nerfs.

[GuyWithFace]

Last week on H Ursoc, I pulled 262k at 851 ilvl using FEL BARRAGE(https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...test#boss=1841). This week at 857 ilvl with CHAOS BLADES I only did 242k, with no legendaries both times(though I did stupidly die to charge on this week's kill, but was instantly rezzed so I barely lost any uptime). Quite the drop.

[Shirofune]

We lost like 3-4% ST damage. If you lose more than 10% you should check your gameplay instead of blaming the nerfs.

And that's fine but... was the ST hit needed? "It was little, so it doesn't really affect us". Well, sir, it's more than 0, it affects us, and our ST was fine to begin with.

[katyperryxo]

Went from 260k on heroic ursoc (852 ilvl) to 230k (855 ilvl).

Gained 3 ilvls and lost ~30k dps.

Forum won't let me post a link to my logs

[Deleted]

And that's fine but... was the ST hit needed? "It was little, so it doesn't really affect us". Well, sir, it's more than 0, it affects us, and our ST was fine to begin with.

^^ This, all these people saying how "its fine, no need to moan, you still do good dps" . So do most of the other classes who got zero nerfs to their St damage.

Why should we be fine with nerfs when we wern`t at the top anyway? Just to cater for aoe nerfs.

[Specialka]

^^ This, all these people saying how "its fine, no need to moan, you still do good dps" . So do most of the other classes who got zero nerfs to their St damage.

Why should we be fine with nerfs when we wern`t at the top anyway? Just to cater for aoe nerfs.

Maybe because you do good aoe? Can't be good at both.

[Deleted]

Maybe because you do good aoe? Can't be good at both.

So nerf the Aoe, like we expected, But leave the ST damage alone? Makes no sense

[Berndorf]

We lost like 3-4% ST damage. If you lose more than 10% you should check your gameplay instead of blaming the nerfs.

So everyone reporting losses of 10-20% are horrible players? I don't even know what my st loss is atm but I feel like you just pulled that 3-4% number out of your ass just so you could call everyone claiming 10%+ losses are bad players.

[ufta]

Went from 260k on heroic ursoc (852 ilvl) to 230k (855 ilvl).

Gained 3 ilvls and lost ~30k dps.

Forum won't let me post a link to my logs

I haven't run Ursoc yet this week but when I applied the nerf math to my Ursoc numbers from last week, it showed me an expected nerf of only 6.1%.
Your logs are showing twice that. Can you take a closer look at your TG, bloodlet, Fel Rush, and FOTI numbers between the two runs and see if the "per use" dmg numbers are jiving with Blizzard's stated nerf values?

[kaelleria]

I haven't run Ursoc yet this week but when I applied the nerf math to my Ursoc numbers from last week, it showed me an expected nerf of only 6.1%.
Your logs are showing twice that. Can you take a closer look at your TG, bloodlet, Fel Rush, and FOTI numbers between the two runs and see if the "per use" dmg numbers are jiving with Blizzard's stated nerf values?

Potions were also nerfed. People aren't taking that into account either.

[ufta]

Potions were also nerfed. People aren't taking that into account either.

Oh wow, I completely missed that! Thanks for the heads up.

[Specialka]

So nerf the Aoe, like we expected, But leave the ST damage alone? Makes no sense

yes it does. Even with nerfs, your aoe is still top chart. And your ST is too high for such a high aoe class.

[GuyWithFace]

yes it does. Even with nerfs, your aoe is still top chart. And your ST is too high for such a high aoe class.

Now MM hunters, outlaw rogues, fire mages and WW monks beat us on sustained aoe, arms warriors beat us on burst aoe, and all of those(except MM) beat us on ST. Balanced nerfs, right?

[Raikh]

So everyone reporting losses of 10-20% are horrible players? I don't even know what my st loss is atm but I feel like you just pulled that 3-4% number out of your ass just so you could call everyone claiming 10%+ losses are bad players.

Look at the nerfs and look at the damage breakdown or alternatively use simcraft, since its pretty accurate for ST patchwerk dps. Depending on fight length and a bit of down time/movement the nerf might come into the range of 5% but there is no way it amounts to the double or even more. That makes mathemtically no sense at all.

The discussion ehre doesn't even question if something went wrong which mgiht've resulted ina higher loss, which indeed happened for a few hours on US servers, where bloodlet went live with 100% damage instead of 150% which widens the gap ofocurse but that ahs been fixed during the day and never happened on EU servers.
So I can't really assume to have really knowledgable player at ahnd complaining here and chances are high that there is simply player inconsistency + a bit of a nerf resulting in that big of a gap.

On the nerf itself. Sure we didn't need a ST nerf but it isn't breaking us either. The week barely started, feedback averted the full nerfbat, and now we should wait and see how the nerfs worked out. Our niche is not ST, if we stay middle of the pack there while performing strong on AoE and cleave there is simply no reason to buff us, even if there was a bit of collateral damage for ST since we use most of our AoE kit on ST, too. As long as it doesn't become problematic its fine to wait and see what the results of that tuning pass will bring and if we drop to a underperforming position, then you can ask for buffs, but give actual reason to that, instead of complaining about doing 30k dps less on a particular fight on a particular attempt, thats as anecdotal as it gets.

[Hexxidecimal]

yes it does. Even with nerfs, your aoe is still top chart. And your ST is too high for such a high aoe class.

Our burst AoE is God Like. Sustained AoE is good. I also disagree, just because we are good at AoE doesn't mean we should be trash at single target. Now I know you may say, "But look at shadow priests, good at single target but bad at AoE, that is how it works." However in this game, boss damage is THE number 1 priority. You have to have solid single target to be considered for raids.

So no, our ST doesn't need more of a hit, ESPECIALLY when most of us agree out AoE was too good.

[Tobedeleted123]

Our burst AoE is God Like. Sustained AoE is good. I also disagree, just because we are good at AoE doesn't mean we should be trash at single target. Now I know you may say, "But look at shadow priests, good at single target but bad at AoE, that is how it works." However in this game, boss damage is THE number 1 priority. You have to have solid single target to be considered for raids.

So no, our ST doesn't need more of a hit, ESPECIALLY when most of us agree out AoE was too good.

Exactly, that's why in highmaul enh shammy was considered only for imperator since their aoe was godlike, but their st was trash.