Arms Legion Discussion

[Thaylen]

I'm a terrible warrior.

Is a overpower-in for the kill-trauma-opportunity strikes build terrible?

I struggle with this question as well (am I terrible warrior?) and also run the OP/IFTK/TR/OS build. Many on here call it boring but the truth is... I LOVE the rotation. I have maxed leveled my warrior the last three expansions but only to get the professions it had maxed so I could use them for other toons. I never really *enjoyed* the warrior. In Legion pre-xpac I was watching a vid on the Arms animations and thought that looks pretty cool, maybe I'll give it a shot. And fell in love with the playstyle and it is now my main.

I've been able hold my own the last few weeks in the dungeons grinds (generally top dps; sometimes #2) and last week with *my* raid team being one of the top 3 (depending on boss). But it is relative... because we only cleared Normal. I'm not raiding in the same team as elite geared through the teeth raiders.

So I'm caught in this same quandary - I do "well enough" with the group I'm with and no one is going to throw stones at my numbers. And it is with a rotation I genuinely enjoy. So that should be enough. But... I see what these FR warriors are doing and it's not just a 10% difference, it is a 60k+ difference. And it leaves me very disgruntled. So off to the training dummies I go to once again give the FR rotation a try. Only to once again find I abhor it and feel like I'm just blinding spamming the FR button with my left hand until it hits 3 stacks while trying to do a "normal" rotation with my right hand. It reminds me of one of those phone games where you are just trying to tap the screen as fast as you can for useless reasons; Just pure and utter time waste.

I'll be honest, after I read the FR nerfs announced I was was ecstatic (sorry guys). I felt like it would balance the Arms builds out more and not have FR be such a huge outlier. But as mentioned here, depending on the gear you are stacking, FR is still an extreme powerhouse. And I had my ass heartily handed to me by another arms warrior in the LFR I did last night when he was 10 ilvls higher and running FR. I knew I wouldn't best him... but I thought I could at least be competitive. And I wasn't even close. So that happiness I had going into yesterday evaporated and was replaced by disgust and frustration.

DC/AM is still better than Trauma/OPS, regardless of your other talents.

I read this but I can't seem to experience it. I did 4 5min intervals on the target dummy last night for each build and TR/OPS still provided better results by ~15k consistently each time. Which I have to admit is mind boggling since OPS is based on missing target health (which means it should be useless on a target dummy).

So Coedbleidd you may be a terrible warrior. But you aren't alone.

[jettzypher]

... snip ...

The basic build with Overpower/In for the Kill/Trauma/Opportunity Strikes is only a bad build if you're trying to tackle the hardest content of the game (Mythic raids and likely Mythic+ dungeons after a certain level). When it comes down to heroics, regular mythic dungeons, and normal raids, it can compete just fine in comparison. Is the FR build still better? Sure, but it's a bit more negligible at these lower levels, where playing what you enjoy is perfectly acceptable (and in the case of the Arms Warrior, still competitive on the numbers).

At the end of the day, if the boss dies, who cares who did what numbers? People tend to get caught up in the wrong things sometimes...

[Thaylen]

<snip>Is the FR build still better? Sure, but it's a bit more negligible at these lower levels, where playing what you enjoy is perfectly acceptable (and in the case of the Arms Warrior, still competitive on the numbers).

At the end of the day, if the boss dies, who cares who did what numbers? People tend to get caught up in the wrong things sometimes...

I hear you and appreciate the support man. Let me give you more detail on this LFR encounter I reference though to highlight just how extreme the FR gap is (since I logged the fight). To show we were both pretty damn spot on with button pushing (sans FR spam for me), here are the casts and counts:

Him/me:
74 FR pushes vs 0 for me (obviously)
59 Slams vs 58 WWs
41 MS vs 37 MS
24 CS vs 21 CS
13 Exct vs 14 Exct
3 Warbrk vs 4 Warbrk
7 BC vs 3 BC (this is one of the big differentiators)
He also had 3 Avatars (to my obvious none)

So as you can see, minus the left hand spamming of FR, our "clicks" are pretty tit for tat. And sure, you are going to expect a bit of difference in DPS because of the different builds. What's a reasonable difference based on the two rotations above? 10%? 20%? 30%?

Well as close as the rotations were, the end DPS was nowhere near close. I was at 160k and he was at 220k. Nearly 40% more dps than me. I really don't think that is a fair span across two build of the exact same spec.

FWIW here are the attribute breakdowns (Note crit difference (he was crit chanted))
Me: Strength: 24,137 Stamina: 29,097 Crit: 4,270 Haste: 2,900 Mastery: 7,816 Versatility: 1,755
Him: Strength: 25,049 Stamina: 31,379 Crit: 5,754 Haste: 2,946 Mastery: 6,246 Versatility: 3,252

I'm ilvl 844, he is 854

[Targis]

I'm getting Mortal Combo siming higher than IFtK in an OP, DC, AM build. Anybody else getting the same results?

[Tatsujin]

I struggle with this question as well (am I terrible warrior?) and also run the OP/IFTK/TR/OS build. Many on here call it boring but the truth is... I LOVE the rotation. I have maxed leveled my warrior the last three expansions but only to get the professions it had maxed so I could use them for other toons. I never really *enjoyed* the warrior. In Legion pre-xpac I was watching a vid on the Arms animations and thought that looks pretty cool, maybe I'll give it a shot. And fell in love with the playstyle and it is now my main.

I've been able hold my own the last few weeks in the dungeons grinds (generally top dps; sometimes #2) and last week with *my* raid team being one of the top 3 (depending on boss). But it is relative... because we only cleared Normal. I'm not raiding in the same team as elite geared through the teeth raiders.

So I'm caught in this same quandary - I do "well enough" with the group I'm with and no one is going to throw stones at my numbers. And it is with a rotation I genuinely enjoy. So that should be enough. But... I see what these FR warriors are doing and it's not just a 10% difference, it is a 60k+ difference. And it leaves me very disgruntled. So off to the training dummies I go to once again give the FR rotation a try. Only to once again find I abhor it and feel like I'm just blinding spamming the FR button with my left hand until it hits 3 stacks while trying to do a "normal" rotation with my right hand. It reminds me of one of those phone games where you are just trying to tap the screen as fast as you can for useless reasons; Just pure and utter time waste.

I'll be honest, after I read the FR nerfs announced I was was ecstatic (sorry guys). I felt like it would balance the Arms builds out more and not have FR be such a huge outlier. But as mentioned here, depending on the gear you are stacking, FR is still an extreme powerhouse. And I had my ass heartily handed to me by another arms warrior in the LFR I did last night when he was 10 ilvls higher and running FR. I knew I wouldn't best him... but I thought I could at least be competitive. And I wasn't even close. So that happiness I had going into yesterday evaporated and was replaced by disgust and frustration.



I read this but I can't seem to experience it. I did 4 5min intervals on the target dummy last night for each build and TR/OPS still provided better results by ~15k consistently each time. Which I have to admit is mind boggling since OPS is based on missing target health (which means it should be useless on a target dummy).

So Coedbleidd you may be a terrible warrior. But you aren't alone.

Find that sweet button that you feel very comfortable on hitting. Mine is on the keyboard, number 4. Used to be my execute button but it is very easy considering I use QWES to move around (I don't use AD, or rarely ever) and I turn around with my mouse. I got the Logitech G600. Once you find that sweet button it's all about practice, get on the dummies for an hour then go heroics. I struggled big time for two days until I got it down, about I would say 70-80% I was doing very well on my second day.

--

Guys, what is that simulation addon or program you all talk about? I want to try it out.

[globezorz]

I hear you and appreciate the support man. Let me give you more detail on this LFR encounter I reference though to highlight just how extreme the FR gap is (since I logged the fight). To show we were both pretty damn spot on with button pushing (sans FR spam for me), here are the casts and counts:

Him/me:
74 FR pushes vs 0 for me (obviously)
59 Slams vs 58 WWs
41 MS vs 37 MS
24 CS vs 21 CS
13 Exct vs 14 Exct
3 Warbrk vs 4 Warbrk
7 BC vs 3 BC (this is one of the big differentiators)
He also had 3 Avatars (to my obvious none)

So as you can see, minus the left hand spamming of FR, our "clicks" are pretty tit for tat. And sure, you are going to expect a bit of difference in DPS because of the different builds. What's a reasonable difference based on the two rotations above? 10%? 20%? 30%?

Well as close as the rotations were, the end DPS was nowhere near close. I was at 160k and he was at 220k. Nearly 40% more dps than me. I really don't think that is a fair span across two build of the exact same spec.

FWIW here are the attribute breakdowns (Note crit difference (he was crit chanted))
Me: Strength: 24,137 Stamina: 29,097 Crit: 4,270 Haste: 2,900 Mastery: 7,816 Versatility: 1,755
Him: Strength: 25,049 Stamina: 31,379 Crit: 5,754 Haste: 2,946 Mastery: 6,246 Versatility: 3,252

I'm ilvl 844, he is 854

Stop using FoB, even if you want to use a nonFR build (which is understandable), FoB is simming awfully for single target, being worse than slam and sadly anything other than Avatar in that tier is not good.

[Uruvsuurt]

Below 20 % inside BC you spam Execute only (and FR meanwhile ofc), you already want to have Colossus up when pressing BC. In BC you don't refresh Colossus and you don't use MS, not even with 3 Stacks FR.
Outside of BC you still use MS over Execute, you just don't use FR anymore, whatsoever.
When MS is on CD you use Execute, regardless of rage level (assuming Colossus is up of course).
Use Colossus when it's not up and/or when MS is on CD/no Rage for Execute available.

Man, you are a saint. I'm not sure why I have been having trouble understanding Arms this expac, but somehow how you just spelled this out may have lit the light bulb. I sincerely appreciate your patience. No offense to all the other gurus, and thanks to you all also for all the help.

Now the next thing to tackle is to find a comfortable button to spam for FR. I wish that was built into a passive that stacked on something like crits or whatever, and we could drop the spamming. Oh well.


Thanks again all.

[quickoats]

Man, you are a saint. I'm not sure why I have been having trouble understanding Arms this expac, but somehow how you just spelled this out may have lit the light bulb. I sincerely appreciate your patience. No offense to all the other gurus, and thanks to you all also for all the help.

Now the next thing to tackle is to find a comfortable button to spam for FR. I wish that was built into a passive that stacked on something like crits or whatever, and we could drop the spamming. Oh well.


Thanks again all.

I've found that binding the scroll wheel to up or down for FR has worked best. I use up for just FR and down for FR+Hamstring (used during Battle Cry).

[lurj]

Hey everyone. I'm still trying to decide what class I want to play this expansion and I wanted to know what you guys thought. I started out as arms warrior but the dry spells you get with CS really turned me off the class. I then switched to mage but it feels very repetitive outside of combustion window. I've been thinking of returning to my arms warr but even hitting target dummies I'm still getting really frustrated watching my DPS drop to zero during cs dry spells. It's made me curious about Fury Warr.

Anyway, how do you guys who've played Fury enjoy the spec? It seems less reliant on procs but I don't have a great understanding of the spec right now. More fun than arms? Less fun? Let me know what you think.

[amarathy]

In regards to Execute phase:

What would you use your SD proc on, MS or Execute? I presume if you still had 3xFR still lingering that would be the highest dump, but surely a 40 rage Execute beats a MS? and if so, is there specific breakpoints to decide which is the better ability to use on your SD?

[Uruvsuurt]

I've found that binding the scroll wheel to up or down for FR has worked best. I use up for just FR and down for FR+Hamstring (used during Battle Cry).

I need to find something. I am used to using a gamepad and the left hand to press buttons while I run forward and use long cd abilities with the mouse. It is awkward using a spammable button and still grip the mouse with my right hand. I'll just have to start trying things and get used to it.

Thanks

[Deleted]

I just put my warrior into simcraft for the very first time. I am pretty shocked to see that I am supposed to simply wait for about 25% of the fight.
Did I miss something while setting up simcraft or is this a result you're getting too?

edit: Cant post pictures - imgur.com/a/RSDka

[Paszo]

This is mostly true and its sad, I went into this week not looking forward to being outdpsed by a mile since I only had a weaksauce legendary but then lucked out this morning and pulled the ring from the weekly class hall M+ chest

I have a question, what do you mainly use while in BC 5 sec frame?

[jjbarea]

seems like its really intense healing fight, strange how serenity is stuck on it since they have all the best healers from method

[Deleted]

so what potion do arms warriors use?
wowhead and icy veins kinda contradict each other.

[Valkors]

so what potion do arms warriors use?
wowhead and icy veins kinda contradict each other.

Old War /10 characters

[Anuibus]

I just put my warrior into simcraft for the very first time. I am pretty shocked to see that I am supposed to simply wait for about 25% of the fight.
Did I miss something while setting up simcraft or is this a result you're getting too?

edit: Cant post pictures - imgur.com/a/RSDka

abilities not on the gcd don't count towards your active time.

[Archimtiros]

I just put my warrior into simcraft for the very first time. I am pretty shocked to see that I am supposed to simply wait for about 25% of the fight.
Did I miss something while setting up simcraft or is this a result you're getting too?

edit: Cant post pictures - imgur.com/a/RSDka

abilities not on the gcd don't count towards your active time.

Neither do auto-attacks. This is time in which you can be using Heroic Charge, which the sim does do, but you can do it even more without Heroic Leap by simply walking out of melee range and charging back in.

[Deleted]

Should arms prioritize Execute with SD before MS? I feel like with FR nerf Execute hits harder sub 3 stacks

[cszsolt3]

Has anyone else been getting really disappointing results today? I honestly don't really see a point of staying arms any longer.