I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[Kynario]

Simple solution: PUG Normal.

Stop wanting to get everything on a platter. Normal is simple enough with normal coordination and teamwork. It's not LFR where you can bash your head against the keyboard and still get loot. People like you are what's wrong about LFR and with WoW becoming more and more casual.

Unfortunately this casual state of mind isn't only a matter of difficulty only anymore, but is also having an impact on questing, loot acquisition, and lore/story writing in WoW.

[Deleted]

If there is an unlock via a world boss and I killed the world boss I should get the appearance.

Except you don't. Not before you have the Balance of Power one.

[Glorious Leader]

Because participation numbers are skewed with characters that haven't leveled to max, or leveled to max and are banished to profession bots.

Which doesnt answer the question or explain away the fact that clearly raid participation is still abysmall. Yes people quit. Clearly raiding was not keeping them around.

[Deleted]

anyway this is what's wrong with the playerbase nowadays.
hurr, I can tag/afk a boss and I should be rewarded equally.

Global tags are good in theory, but they allow this sort of asshat behavior to grow and flourish

I kill the WB properly. All the elitist heroic raiders are the one that think they can just afk in LFR and still finish it. People who actually go into LFR are doing the fight properly.

[xChurch]

Because participation numbers are skewed with characters that haven't leveled to max, or leveled to max and are banished to profession bots.

Would seem kinda silly to check participation numbers while including people who can't even raid or have barely any play time. Perhaps you're right and they just count every active character and see if they raid but that seems kind of unbelievable. Either way I don't think anyone is arguing that raiders shouldn't get special raider specific stuff like some seem to be suggesting, it's just how Blizzard did this that is creating confusion and irritation. Like I said, should have just given a raider only skin set instead of trying to mix Mythic and Raid content when those two end games are designed with different players in mind.

[kary]

Would seem kinda silly to check participation numbers while including people who can't even raid or have barely any play time. Perhaps you're right and they just count every active character and see if they raid but that seems kind of unbelievable. Either way I don't think anyone is arguing that raiders shouldn't get special raider specific stuff like some seem to be suggesting, it's just how Blizzard did this that is creating confusion and irritation. Like I said, should have just given a raider only skin set instead of trying to mix Mythic and Raid content when those two end games are designed with different players in mind.

They don't check active chars, they check active accounts with max level chars. I raided every lockout on 2 of my 10 characters. That would obv skew numbers because it would say 2/10 chars at max level raid.

And I'd argue that mythic 5 man and normal+ raiding are the same playerbase, i.e, players who form groups to do content.

[xChurch]

They don't check active chars, they check active accounts with max level chars. I raided every lockout on 2 of my 10 characters. That would obv skew numbers because it would say 2/10 chars at max level raid.

And I'd argue that mythic 5 man and normal+ raiding are the same playerbase, i.e, players who form groups to do content.

So in the 10-11 years since raiding has been going on, they've never found a more exacting way to check for participation? Even Blizzard has said that Mythics are meant to be an alternate progression path for people who don't have time to dedicate to raiding 2-3 nights a week.

[Frostyfire14]

For the OP to brag about his mains and alts with links to armory, and even posting his setup in his signature. He sure complains alot... about LFR...

[Glorious Leader]

So in the 10-11 years since raiding has been going on, they've never found a more exacting way to check for participation? Even Blizzard has said that Mythics are meant to be an alternate progression path for people who don't have time to dedicate to raiding 2-3 nights a week.

Of course they have and that developers have stated on multiple numerous occasions that raid particiaption was abysmall and is in part rhe reason lfr was implemented.


People have a hard time accepting the fact that their favorite past time is not universally beloved and more to the point was increasingly being bypassed at every available opportunity. Its never raiding thats the problem its literally every other possible thing wrong with the game. Raiding can never be at fault, its apparently what made wow and any suggestion that it should take a back seat is tantamount to heresy.

[xChurch]

Of course they have and that developers have stated on multiple numerous occasions that raid particiaption was abysmall and is in part rhe reason lfr was implemented.

Ya I seem to remember them trying to force people into raiding multiple times in WoW's history and it has still yet to do anything other than piss people off, and yet we still having people coming in here acting like "Those damn LFR warriors just want everything handed to them" instead of people just not wanting to be forced to spend time learning a raid, finding a group and downing all the bosses, and all that is if you're lucky enough to find a decent pug that actually can full clear quickly. Raiders should absolutely get unique stuff as rewards for wanting to dedicate all that spare time towards raiding but don't mix match content types to try and force people into content they've already shown they have no inclination towards doing.

[Makabreska]

I understand Blizz reasoning, but it's inconsistant. You can obtain hidden artifact skins from LFR.

[Darkeon]

Could we just stop calling normal raids "hard" or "difficult" ? Because they aren't, and they aren't designed to be. They have even scrapped some of the abilities that encounters usually have. All it really is, is time-consuming. It takes just a little bit more time, to actually look for people, to complete the raid with. And I keep repeating myself: If you can't afford the time, or if you simply don't like playing with other people (in an MMORPG, as strange as it may sound), then the skin is just not for you. It's as simple as that, and none of the pseudo-arguments that were brought up in this thread changes this.

I'm willing to bet that there are going to be more wipes on LFR than on normal PUGs, in a healthy amount of weeks once people start out-gearing\knowing the place. Thus making the "time-consuming" aspect of it, the defining aspect that should influence rewards at least by your post, tip towards LFR and not Normal PUGs.

Wanna reconsider your stance on the subject and move some goalposts now?

[Dvaldin]

#1 - The reward for the quest is cosmetic and not a game-changer.

#2 - Encouraging organized grouping in turn encourages meeting people, is a good thing for guilds and supports the overall concept of what an MMO is supposed to be.

[Traveler Voltin]

#1 - The reward for the quest is cosmetic and not a game-changer.

#2 - Encouraging organized grouping in turn encourages meeting people, is a good thing for guilds and supports the overall concept of what an MMO is supposed to be.

for #2
didnt work for WoD with removing tier gear from LFR.
why the hell do they think this will make a difference?

[Dvaldin]

for #2
didnt work for WoD with removing tier gear from LFR.
why the hell do they think this will make a difference?

It worked wonders in vanilla and BC. Agreed the game is different now, but Legion is attempting to bring back some of the old concepts that were really cool.
Really, I don't care one way or the other because I can make it happen either way, and I can and have made things happen for other people too for just about everything except mythic raiding current content which is more dedicated than I care to take part in.
I think the only ones who really have a problem with this just lack social skills.
The only potential real problem I can perceive with it is the gap between having to have 5 people then doubling that to raid which could take more time to develop a true dedicated group with people one knows.

[darklogrus]

#1 - The reward for the quest is cosmetic and not a game-changer.

#2 - Encouraging organized grouping in turn encourages meeting people, is a good thing for guilds and supports the overall concept of what an MMO is supposed to be.

1. Then whats the big deal if its in LFR?

[Dvaldin]

1. Then whats the big deal if its in LFR?

It's not a big deal either way.

[bufferunderrun]

Ya I seem to remember them trying to force people into raiding multiple times in WoW's history and it has still yet to do anything other than piss people off, and yet we still having people coming in here acting like "Those damn LFR warriors just want everything handed to them" instead of people just not wanting to be forced to spend time learning a raid, finding a group and downing all the bosses, and all that is if you're lucky enough to find a decent pug that actually can full clear quickly. Raiders should absolutely get unique stuff as rewards for wanting to dedicate all that spare time towards raiding but don't mix match content types to try and force people into content they've already shown they have no inclination towards doing.

the thing is actually pretty different, lfr and lfg have an enormous participation compared to the other difficulties beside having the advantage of allowing raiding at our personal condition it address on of the biggest problem in wow: toxic community; you only need to ignore the chat and if something go wrong leave and requeue.

Nothing could beat this advantage, but blizzard and many of the haters are seriously concerned that this enormous success will soon eat away normal raiding or more specifically guild only raiding; mind this don't concern competitive guilds who go for world first in general top 50-100 this concern all the other.

FFXIV who is actually the major wow competitor successfully implemented their version of normal/heroic raid with an automatic matchmaker, how much time will pass until until blizzard give up on it's pretentious stance and implement it in wow?

[Otimus]

It worked wonders in vanilla and BC. Agreed the game is different now, but Legion is attempting to bring back some of the old concepts that were really cool.
Really, I don't care one way or the other because I can make it happen either way, and I can and have made things happen for other people too for just about everything except mythic raiding current content which is more dedicated than I care to take part in.
I think the only ones who really have a problem with this just lack social skills.
The only potential real problem I can perceive with it is the gap between having to have 5 people then doubling that to raid which could take more time to develop a true dedicated group with people one knows.

You're kind of deluding yourself with your own personal experiences if you think a lot of people raided in BC. BC wasn't even the height of pre-LFR raiding activity numbers (WOTLK was, and it was still abysmally low. Even when ICC had a 30% nerf, it was extremely low.)

Not defending anything here, just making a point. Raiding isn't popular, and never will be popular. It's a niche activity that Blizzard personally either REALLY loves, or has trouble coming up with better ways to make progression work in an MMORPG. Probably somewhere in between that.

MMORPG's, as a genre, aren't designed to have millions upon millions of players. They're designed to have a dedicated base of about 500,000-ish or so players. WoW's "problem" is in that it attracted a whole lot of people who probably shouldn't have been playing an MMO in the first base, and that's basically like 90% of the playerbase of the game now. and by "now", I don't mean recently. It's basically been that was since around 2005 or so.

Anything otherwise is kind of deluding yourself with your own little circle of experiences in a bubble and ignoring reality and gaming trends of the past decade.

[Rampant Rabbit]

Wow. Up to 70+ pages in less than a day.

It's so simple.

Harder = higher level gameplay = better rewards. This counts for pretty much ANY game.