No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Ordinator]

The gear that drops in raids and LFR trivializes the world content already. Waiting till mid expansion for flying mount return doesn't make logical sense as most of the expansion will be trivialized by the first two months leaving 22 months or even possibly more for the remainder for this expansion.

There's a difference between making world content easier through gearing up and making it fully irrelevant by flying over it.

[Elim Garak]

There's a difference between making world content easier through gearing up and making it fully irrelevant by flying over it.

Yeah, like the former is a thing and the latter is not.

[clevin]

I am glad they mentioned flight will be coming to the expac, but not necessarily available at launch. I am certainly in favor of flight, and use it whenever I am out in the world. I was likely one of the first to get the Draenor Pathfinder, and the same will be said for Legion. What's nice about Legion is the landscape. Nothing is outrageous or impassible like we had in Spires of Arak, or a zone that took forever to cross, like Shadowmoon.

Look a low post count poster saying shit that is laughably inaccurate (Stormheim and Highmountain are far less passable than something like Spires.)

[SirCowdog]

There's a difference between making world content easier through gearing up and making it fully irrelevant by flying over it.

A person with 800 gear and flying will still land and engage with content because they still need to do it to upgrade gear. At only 846 iLVL I can already round up every trash mob in sight and AOE them down in seconds. A single enemy poses zero threat. On the one hand a person will do the content regardless of flight because it's still relevant to them. On the other hand the content is already irrelevant to the higher ilvl, and flying makes no difference at that point.


I don't know why you Blizzard sycophants try so hard to defend this. Even if EVERYTHING you say is true, it still doesn't refute that you playing from the ground isn't mutually exclusive with me playing from the air. My personal playstyle doesn't disrupt yours. We've both already seen Blizzard's "vision" once or more from the ground anyway.

The entire argument in support of restricting flight for so long is outright ridiculous at this point. Blizzard's statements about not wanting flight in current content doesn't even hold up, because by the time you even unlock world quests, you've already seen everything!

[Beazy]

There's a difference between making world content easier through gearing up and making it fully irrelevant by flying over it.

How are you doing content on a flying mount? Did they add mounted combat in Legion? I dont remember that in beta, but I only played for about 2 months in beta. So maybe they did, I just didnt read about it.

If they added mounted combat, I may just purchase legion today after work.

[-Joker-]

For me, these gimmicks are more cheating than flying mounts are, because all of them are gated somehow (for example, whistle requires friendly with all factions, that means some hours of questing to get reputation in Suramar), while flying mounts can be available for everybody, because the gold amounts for the basic flight skill and one mount are not that huge anymore compared to all the gold you can make while leveling.

Anyway, why do we have to outsmart the terrain in first place? Was WoW not about slaying monsters first and foremost?

The idea is to ultimately figure out a way to do what you want to do, and still have fun at the same time. While I will be the FIRST person to hop on a flying mount and bounce over a wall, I can also admit I thoroughly enjoy the grappling hook in Stormheim. Nothing other than flight will ever make an extreme pro-flier happy. I get that. But as a pro flier, I am enjoying Legion far too much to let something like a temporary lack of flight from slowing me down. I didn't even know there was a whistle, and I never got Aviana's feather on Draenor either. Personally, I hated WoD and not just for a lack of flight til the achievement. This time, it feels different and my limited movement just means I need to be smart enough to find the paths laid out for me. I like convenience, but things that are too easy just bore me.

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You know what they didn't show in the movie a great deal? People riding around on their ground mounts, dealing w/things that are not relevant.

Interesting fact, most movies about airplanes or super heroes that can fly are predominantly filmed on the ground, or indoors. Iron Man can fly, but if you count the in-air time vs ground time, I think you will find 90% (or more) of the film is done with non-flying sequences. Flight is an exciting excursion, but even as a pro-flier, I am not confident how much I would enjoy the game if I could do everything while mounted and flying.

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Look a low post count poster saying shit that is laughably inaccurate (Stormheim and Highmountain are far less passable than something like Spires.)

At least in Stormheim, I have a grappling hook As for my post count, I was unaware you needed a certain number of posts before your opinion mattered in a civil conversation. More than one spot in Spires took you miles out of the way just to get around certain hills or through certain vales. I never experienced disorientation in either zone in Legion.

[Elim Garak]

Azeroth would've fallen in the movie without the Lothar's deus ex gryphon.

[-Joker-]

Azeroth would've fallen in the movie without the Lothar's deus ex gryphon.

New York was detroyed, even with Thor and Ironman trying to save it. Not sure the balance of things can rest on wings.

[Mafic]

A person with 800 gear and flying will still land and engage with content because they still need to do it to upgrade gear. At only 846 iLVL I can already round up every trash mob in sight and AOE them down in seconds. A single enemy poses zero threat. On the one hand a person will do the content regardless of flight because it's still relevant to them. On the other hand the content is already irrelevant to the higher ilvl, and flying makes no difference at that point.

The bigger problem is that there is no future content that appears to be added that would allow them to continue to gate flying to "mid expansion". There is no Tanaan this time around, so at this point they have nothing to to point to for future content other than Sargeras tomb in Suramar. But even then that is pushing it, so we must be patient and see how this unfolds.

Based on what I know it will not be the way people anticipate and it will catch people off guard IMVHO.

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How are you doing content on a flying mount? Did they add mounted combat in Legion? I dont remember that in beta, but I only played for about 2 months in beta. So maybe they did, I just didnt read about it.

If they added mounted combat, I may just purchase legion today after work.

They did try ground mount combat in WoD and most players didn't care for it. The problem as always is that gimmicks are fine for short bursts of play, but gimmicks can't replace flying mounts, hearths or portals (major travel systems).

[SirCowdog]

The idea is to ultimately figure out a way to do what you want to do, and still have fun at the same time. While I will be the FIRST person to hop on a flying mount and bounce over a wall, I can also admit I thoroughly enjoy the grappling hook in Stormheim.

The grappling hooks in Stormheim were an interesting gimmick, but could have been scattered all over the expansion to spice things up. Unfortunately they only used it in very small areas. It's not really a fair comparison to something like flight, which can generally be used almost everywhere in the outdoor open world.

This is just one more example of the concept I keep pushing of mixing flight-enabled areas with no-flight areas. Stormheim could have easily used the dragons in the area, as well as the harpoons to create an effective deterrent to using your flying mount in, or around, the quest area. Thus making grappling the more useful tool in that situation. Instead: TROLOLOL! U no fly for reasons!

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The bigger problem is that there is no future content that appears to be added that would allow them to continue to gate flying to "mid expansion". There is no Tanaan this time around, so at this point they have nothing to to point to for future content other than Sargeras tomb in Suramar. But even then that is pushing it, so we must be patient and see how this unfolds.

Well, there's the actual Broken Shores zone(presumably the same one used in the opening scenario) with the Tomb of Sargeras. It doesn't seem very large, however. All I can think of is something similar to how they worked Firelands, by going through a portal. Maybe missions to Argus or something? That would do nothing for flying, however, since if it's like Firelands it would be just another no-fly island. And what's to stop them from simply raising another island out of the water? Nothing, really.

[Incarnia]

@arrcylde-79 Why? I can't really go and play MoP (fex) now can I? On a serious note, I do want to play. I have invested huge amounts of time and effort into this game, willingly, and enjoyed most of it and for the most part I've had no real struggle dealing with content/features I didn't like - because there were other things that heavily outweigh the things I had an issue with. It's a rather weird position to find yourself in when you feel that you want to play the game but at the same time know that the aspects you don't like heavily outweigh the aspects you do like this time around.
I've been playing since Vanilla, I love World of Warcraft, my characters are very dear to me and I also have friends that are playing. It is no easy task to just say goodbye to all of that, especially when you don't know for how long. Having flying wouldn't fix everything I'm currently disliking about how Legion works, but, it would help soothe some of the symptoms. I know from before that things change throughout the life of an expansion, and having flying would make the wait for the change so much more bearable.

But I also bought Legion (did not pre-order) because I had a shred of hope left in me. That they would announce all the details surrounding how flight would be obtainable and when together with the rest of the 7.1 announcements. It would have been the most honest and sensible thing for them to do, Especially since they claimed to have learned their mistake in WoD - talking about the poor communication on their behalf (wasn't only flying that suffered here, even if that stood out).

My sub runs out on the 13th of October. I will cancel before then, just need to work on how to best formulate my reason for doing so.
Meanwhile I'll keep posting Foxflower in 200stacks for outrageous prices on AH.... I don't want to be poor once I (hopefully) come back now do I?

[Deleted]

@arrcylde-79 Why? I can't really go and play MoP (fex) now can I? On a serious note, I do want to play. I have invested huge amounts of time and effort into this game, willingly, and enjoyed most of it and for the most part I've had no real struggle dealing with content/features I didn't like - because there were other things that heavily outweigh the things I had an issue with. It's a rather weird position to find yourself in when you feel that you want to play the game but at the same time know that the aspects you don't like heavily outweigh the aspects you do like this time around.
I've been playing since Vanilla, I love World of Warcraft, my characters are very dear to me and I also have friends that are playing. It is no easy task to just say goodbye to all of that, especially when you don't know for how long. Having flying wouldn't fix everything I'm currently disliking about how Legion works, but, it would help soothe some of the symptoms. I know from before that things change throughout the life of an expansion, and having flying would make the wait for the change so much more bearable.

So did i. I enjoyed all of my times playing. But when something turns from "enjoyable" to "being a chore" i am out. I did quit many times.... strange thing the breaks get longer every time i quit. In Vanilla it has been only a few month, now i count years.
Sadly most of my freinds seem to be like me, since most of them are not playing right now. And no... they did not all leave because flight is gone. ;-)

Problem is that many people seem to think that it is better to play and look for fun (and barely find any) than to just quit and tell blizzard the most precise way that something is not right with their game. Saying "i don't like many things, but i settle for the few i like" won't bring the change at all.

But I also bought Legion (did not pre-order) because I had a shred of hope left in me. That they would announce all the details surrounding how flight would be obtainable and when together with the rest of the 7.1 announcements. It would have been the most honest and sensible thing for them to do, Especially since they claimed to have learned their mistake in WoD - talking about the poor communication on their behalf (wasn't only flying that suffered here, even if that stood out).

Oh i was super excited when they announced Legion and all its features. But then it hit me like a truck: i was super excited about Warlords too. And since everybody told me it is great, so just that i found out it was only for a month i decided to wait this time. My chars are very dear to me too, even though they are not equiped in a super duper uber fashion. But they are still there.

My sub runs out on the 13th of October. I will cancel before then, just need to work on how to best formulate my reason for doing so.
Meanwhile I'll keep posting Foxflower in 200stacks for outrageous prices on AH.... I don't want to be poor once I (hopefully) come back now do I?

Can i have your stuff? :-D i am always close to be broke.
Just joking... don't even know what to do with gold. What could you do with gold if you are not even playing the game :-)

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How are you doing content on a flying mount? Did they add mounted combat in Legion? I dont remember that in beta, but I only played for about 2 months in beta. So maybe they did, I just didnt read about it.

If they added mounted combat, I may just purchase legion today after work.

Don't.... just don't try to explain. He swallowed Blizz excuse that flight trivializes already trivial content even more. It might be a to-hard-to-grasp-concept for him.

But no, save your money. Mounted combat is only in WOD in Nagrand. Not in Legion.

[SirCowdog]

[MENTION=584841] I have invested huge amounts of time and effort into this game, willingly, and enjoyed most of it and for the most part I've had no real struggle dealing with content/features I didn't like - because there were other things that heavily outweigh the things I had an issue with. It's a rather weird position to find yourself in when you feel that you want to play the game but at the same time know that the aspects you don't like heavily outweigh the aspects you do like this time around.

I've been playing since Vanilla, I love World of Warcraft, my characters are very dear to me and I also have friends that are playing. It is no easy task to just say goodbye to all of that, especially when you don't know for how long.

What you're describing is exactly the type of investment that prevents people from viewing the game more critically or objectively. They are not just making a decision to not pay for a part of the game they disagree with, they're making a decision to give up on upwards of 12 YEARS of invested time, effort, and emotional investment in their characters and the game. (this is why I find the response of "If you don't like it then leave" to be so asinine)

I personally think Blizzard banks a lot of their changes on the idea that people won't give up on their investment. They know they can push the envelope while experimenting with new ideas, even if they're bad ideas, because not only will people not leave, but many fans will automatically leap to their defense without thinking(for the exact same reasons!).

This is also why I dislike the argument that "Most people aren't saying anything because they're just enjoying the game".

[shyguybman]

Holy crap this thread is still going!

I finished part 1 of the path finder achievement on the 22nd!

[SirCowdog]

Holy crap this thread is still going!

I finished part 1 of the path finder achievement on the 22nd!

Screenshot of your time /played at 110? I think it would be interesting to see how long it took.

[Connll]

What you're describing is exactly the type of investment that prevents people from viewing the game more critically or objectively. They are not just making a decision to not pay for a part of the game they disagree with, they're making a decision to give up on upwards of 12 YEARS of invested time, effort, and emotional investment in their characters and the game. (this is why I find the response of "If you don't like it then leave" to be so asinine)

I personally think Blizzard banks a lot of their changes on the idea that people won't give up on their investment. They know they can push the envelope while experimenting with new ideas, even if they're bad ideas, because not only will people not leave, but many fans will automatically leap to their defense without thinking(for the exact same reasons!).

This is also why I dislike the argument that "Most people aren't saying anything because they're just enjoying the game".

I believe this page explains the phenomena you described quite aptly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs

[shyguybman]

Screenshot of your time /played at 110? I think it would be interesting to see how long it took.

Well right now IO have 9 days, 4 hours, 34 minutes but a week ago it was probably like 7-8?

[SirCowdog]

I believe this page explains the phenomena you described quite aptly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs

I didn't know there was a name for it, but I shouldn't be surprised. I was just going off what I personally observed over the years in various different MMOs, from EQ, DAOC, UO, and now WoW.

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Well right now IO have 9 days, 4 hours, 34 minutes but a week ago it was probably like 7-8?

So you play roughly 30-40 hours a week? That's pretty much a full time job, you know.

[shyguybman]

So you play roughly 30-40 hours a week? That's pretty much a full time job, you know.

And?

I also work full time too

[SirCowdog]

And?

I also work full time too

Just putting things in perspective.

So, roughly 7-8 days /played to complete part 1 of pathfinder. That's ~180 hours spent at level 110, above and beyond the time spent leveling. Part of that number is, of course, spent doing other non-pathfinder related things, and part of that time is also serving a double purpose when you can line up objectives.

Like I said, it's an interesting number. Gives us at least some factual info to use in the discussion.