I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[bufferunderrun]

You're kind of deluding yourself with your own personal experiences if you think a lot of people raided in BC. BC wasn't even the height of pre-LFR raiding activity numbers (WOTLK was, and it was still abysmally low. Even when ICC had a 30% nerf, it was extremely low.)

Not defending anything here, just making a point. Raiding isn't popular, and never will be popular. It's a niche activity that Blizzard personally either REALLY loves, or has trouble coming up with better ways to make progression work in an MMORPG. Probably somewhere in between that.

MMORPG's, as a genre, aren't designed to have millions upon millions of players. They're designed to have a dedicated base of about 500,000-ish or so players. WoW's "problem" is in that it attracted a whole lot of people who probably shouldn't have been playing an MMO in the first base, and that's basically like 90% of the playerbase of the game now. and by "now", I don't mean recently. It's basically been that was since around 2005 or so.

Anything otherwise is kind of deluding yourself with your own little circle of experiences in a bubble and ignoring reality and gaming trends of the past decade.

agree if we going to check how many sub game like daoc, aoc, everquest had at their peak they never got close to 1 million

[Deleted]

I understand Blizz reasoning, but it's inconsistant. You can obtain hidden artifact skins from LFR.

Really? That is just so fukin Blizzard it's great.

[Dvaldin]

You're kind of deluding yourself with your own personal experiences if you think a lot of people raided in BC. BC wasn't even the height of pre-LFR raiding activity numbers (WOTLK was, and it was still abysmally low. Even when ICC had a 30% nerf, it was extremely low.)

Not defending anything here, just making a point. Raiding isn't popular, and never will be popular. It's a niche activity that Blizzard personally either REALLY loves, or has trouble coming up with better ways to make progression work in an MMORPG. Probably somewhere in between that.

MMORPG's, as a genre, aren't designed to have millions upon millions of players. They're designed to have a dedicated base of about 500,000-ish or so players. WoW's "problem" is in that it attracted a whole lot of people who probably shouldn't have been playing an MMO in the first base, and that's basically like 90% of the playerbase of the game now. and by "now", I don't mean recently. It's basically been that was since around 2005 or so.

Anything otherwise is kind of deluding yourself with your own little circle of experiences in a bubble and ignoring reality and gaming trends of the past decade.

Nobody said anything about a lot of people raiding, at least until LFR coming along. It's in reference to organized groups. Until que'ing came along you pretty much had to form a dialogue with people for an organized run.

[Glorious Leader]

It worked wonders in vanilla and BC. .

No actually it didnt. Raiding had a near virtual.monopoly on end game rewards and not only did it not serve to lure people into that content it wasnt even enough of a draw to get them to max level. Millions simple quit.

[Daieon]

The artifact quest is for an appearance and much like elite gear in pvp season past (not so much now unfortunately) as well as mounts, people have needed to do things above LFR difficulty. If everything is available at the LFR level there's not point in trying to be good at this game or understanding it or playing well. Why not just queue lfr and auto attack for 45 minutes to get what you want?

[Glorious Leader]

Wow. Up to 70+ pages in less than a day.

It's so simple.

Harder = higher level gameplay = better rewards. This counts for pretty much ANY game.

Their is no better reward for beating halo at a harder difficulty. Excuse me short of the occassiobal extra 15 seconds of clip at the end of a clip. It is not every game, it is not even every rpg. Its diabo and wow.

[Dvaldin]

No actually it didnt. Raiding had a near virtual.monopoly on end game rewards and not only did it not serve to lure people into that content it wasnt even enough of a draw to get them to max level. Millions simple quit.

Again, that's in reference to organized grouping and meeting people.

[Glorious Leader]

Again, that's in reference to organized grouping and meeting people.

The conversation was with regards to incentive structures that ostensible encourage participation in raiding. Which they do not. Its not clear that you can incentivize peple to punch "above their weight" so to speak re: cata dungeons. In any form of organized content.

[Deleted]

Nobody said anything about a lot of people raiding, at least until LFR coming along. It's in reference to organized groups. Until que'ing came along you pretty much had to form a dialogue with people for an organized run.

You mean "LF this and that" "/w inv" ... "bye"

Yeah, much social, very wow.

[darklogrus]

Again, that's in reference to organized grouping and meeting people.

Groups weren't social back then either. You usally had 1 guy shouting for a group or starting a group and another would answer. That was the extent of most of the "organized' groups social aspect..

[Glorious Leader]

Groups weren't social back then either. You usally had 1 guy shouting for a group or starting a group and another would answer. That was the extent of most of the "organized' groups social aspect..

And greater incentives did nothing to impact this behavior or encourage people to form social groups for content they didnt want to do in the first place. Organized content even with its virtual monopoly on reward was insufficient to lure people to participate in it or reach max level to get to it or maintaim their sub. "Organized content" really were talking about raiding is an abject failure as a means of subscriber retention.

[Dvaldin]

The conversation was with regards to incentive structures that ostensible encourage participation in raiding. Which they do not. Its not clear that you can incentivize peple to punch "above their weight" so to speak re: cata dungeons.

Maybe the original responder to my post misinterpreted what I was saying. But, I agree people will not do something they do not enjoy regardless of the incentive.

[kary]

No actually it didnt. Raiding had a near virtual.monopoly on end game rewards and not only did it not serve to lure people into that content it wasnt even enough of a draw to get them to max level. Millions simple quit.

Then why are vanilla and BC the promised times, that everyone fawns over?
Let's not ignore the nostalrius whine thread.
Lol, yall people ridiculous

[Dvaldin]

Groups weren't social back then either. You usally had 1 guy shouting for a group or starting a group and another would answer. That was the extent of most of the "organized' groups social aspect..

That's what I would call poor social skills.

[Glorious Leader]

Then why are vanilla and BC the promised times, that everyone fawns over?
Let's not ignore the nostalrius whine thread.
Lol, yall people ridiculous

Because a (relative) handful of people have ridiculous nostalgia filters on. I mean what about the folks who wrath was the best period?

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe the original responder to my post misinterpreted what I was saying. But, I agree people will not do something they do not enjoy regardless of the incentive.

The idea then that you can and should offer incentives to people to.promote one form of content over another is abysmally poor. Should note that this is entirwly different than taking away rewards from content people already enjoy as that clealry leaves them with the impression of nothing to do.

[kary]

Anyway, this thread is proof that people are entitled crybabies.
There's nothing more to gain, no meaningful discourse apart from "wahhh I want it and I should have it"

I expect at least 20 more pages.

[Dvaldin]

You mean "LF this and that" "/w inv" ... "bye"

Yeah, much social, very wow.

If that's the way someone approached it; that's on them, not the game.

[darklogrus]

And greater incentives did nothing to impact this behavior or encourage people to form social groups for content they didnt want to do in the first place. Organized content even with its virtual monopoly on reward was insufficient to lure people to participate in it or reach max level to get to it or maintaim their sub. "Organized content" really were talking about raiding is an abject failure as a means of subscriber retention.

You would think Blizzard would have learned their lesson that it never works. It didn't work in the past. It didn't work when they forced people in to Pvp in MoP and it didn't work when they forced people in WoD to raid.

That's what I would call poor social skills.

That was the bulk of the groups on my realm and as a healer I ran into a ton of them. So don't act like it was an instant chat spamming time because it never was.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, this thread is proof that people are entitled crybabies.
There's nothing more to gain, no meaningful discourse apart from "wahhh I want it and I should have it"

I expect at least 20 more pages.

More like "wahhh, why should they have what I have." Followed by them going into another thread and exclaiming "I only do it for the experience!" BS line...

[Glorious Leader]

You would think Blizzard would have learned their lesson that it never works. It didn't work in the past. It didn't work when they forced people in to Pvp in MoP and it didn't work when they forced people in WoD to raid.



That was the bulk of the groups on my realm and as a healer I ran into a ton of them. So don't act like it was an instant chat spamming time because it never was.

The problem for them is that they have no nore arrows left in the prroverbial quiver and they really really want people to get into organized.

[Etrock08]

Their is no better reward for beating halo at a harder difficulty. Excuse me short of the occassiobal extra 15 seconds of clip at the end of a clip. It is not every game, it is not even every rpg. Its diabo and wow.

Optional Bosses in many many many rpgs are extremley tough, take time, skill, or outgearing/leveling in order to beat give very good bonus loot, achievments, or bonuses.

By the end of the expansion if you are not geared enough to go back through normal EN to complete the quests by rolling your face, there is something wrong with you.

Cars in racing games are often locked behind the highest level of racing against either players or bots.

Fighting games unlock skins and recolors and titles by completing insane challenges.

This argument is stupid, blizzard can offer whatever reward system they want, it is their game, and they believe that there should be some rewards based on completing a higher level of play, be that pvp or pve.

Does your job reward you with employee of the month for doing the minimum amount of work that you need to do?