I'm sorry but not being able to do the two Artifact Quests in LFR is bullshit.

[Luko]

LFR isn't raiding...

Not only is this an incorrect statement, it's just making you look like an ass. Why are you trying to look like an ass?

[Propainn]

Oh thats easy. The point of game is to entertain as many people.as possible earning as much revenue as possible in the process.

Let's be real, the point of Legion is to turn WoW into Diablo 4 lol

[Snuffleupagus]

Really, none at all? Try again.

None at all.

Did it last night for a laugh. Here's the quick summary:

- Even after I gave a quick explanation on Rot for Nythendra, the entire room was covered in patches.
- Demon Hunter pulling 75k dps.
- Every additional mob from the clouds on trash spawned.
- People running Ichors away from Il'gynoth, after I gave an explanation on why that's not a good idea.
- People dying in the Il'gynoth room even though I explained why you shouldn't be in there when the cast goes off.
- Several people standing on the edge of the platform for Spiderbird(tm) and getting blown off.
- DPS stealing feathers over healers and tanks and then flying off the edge.
- DPS standing in front of boss when she does Quills 2.0

And so much more.

And in spite of this, in spite of the fact that even on normal when you don't outgear the content the above would wipe you, we one shot every boss.

In spite of the fact that I, as a tank, was 8th on DPS. Despite the fact that people were only just scraping past 150k DPS on single target (Wow, my standards are SO high) and two of the healers were better off AFK.

So no, none at all.

Ignore mechanics, get carried by 1/3rd of the raid, collect loot.

The high point for me was vote-kicking a Mage who started berating a Shaman who (rightly so) told people pestering him for HIS personal loot that he would only part with it for gold (it's saying "fuck off you cunt" politely).

[Mister Cheese]

Not only is this an incorrect statement, it's just making you look like an ass. Why are you trying to look like an ass?

No it's not. Raiding requires thought, tactics, and actual skill. LFR you can just run in and zerg and get free loot.

[Luko]

No it's not. Raiding requires thought, tactics, and actual skill. LFR you can just run in and zerg and get free loot.

It has the word raid in the title of the mode.

Face it, champ. It's a raid. Sorry if that wounds you somehow.

[Aori]

No it's not. Raiding requires thought, tactics, and actual skill. LFR you can just run in and zerg and get free loot.

Then normal isn't raiding. To me it is a cakewalk, unfortunately I don't have 9 other me's to work with which is the big issue with raiding.

[Otimus]

No it's not. Raiding requires thought, tactics, and actual skill. LFR you can just run in and zerg and get free loot.

You're arguing emotion versus the technical definition of something. It's like the people earlier saying questing wasn't PVE gameplay or something. That's just silly. LFR puts you into a massively unorganized raid instance with a massively unorganized raid group.

You're not a hardcore raider or whatever, but by basic game definitions, you absolutely are "raiding". If you're not, what in the hell are you doing? LFR-ing? is that a word now? Do we just casually come up with new definitions to describe it when people play at settings we don't approve of?

[Mister Cheese]

It has the word raid in the title of the mode.

Face it, champ. It's a raid. Sorry if that wounds you somehow.

That's funny. But just because it's called "Looking for Raid" doesn't mean it qualifies for actual raiding. No guild will take you if you say you have experience in LFR. No boss fight is remotely similar to any level of thought required to do them on normal, with the exceptions of bosses with instant kill mechanics. And if they are, blizzard nerfs them. You know why? Because it's not raiding. And a majority of the people do them have no interest in raiding in normal or above.

[melodramocracy]

None at all.

Did it last night for a laugh. Here's the quick summary:

- Even after I gave a quick explanation on Rot for Nythendra, the entire room was covered in patches.
- Demon Hunter pulling 75k dps.
- Every additional mob from the clouds on trash spawned.
- People running Ichors away from Il'gynoth, after I gave an explanation on why that's not a good idea.
- People dying in the Il'gynoth room even though I explained why you shouldn't be in there when the cast goes off.
- Several people standing on the edge of the platform for Spiderbird(tm) and getting blown off.
- DPS stealing feathers over healers and tanks and then flying off the edge.
- DPS standing in front of boss when she does Quills 2.0

And so much more.

And in spite of this, in spite of the fact that even on normal when you don't outgear the content the above would wipe you, we one shot every boss.

In spite of the fact that I, as a tank, was 8th on DPS. Despite the fact that people were only just scraping past 150k DPS on single target (Wow, my standards are SO high) and two of the healers were better off AFK.

So no, none at all.

Ignore mechanics, get carried by 1/3rd of the raid, collect loot.

The high point for me was vote-kicking a Mage who started berating a Shaman who (rightly so) told people pestering him for HIS personal loot that he would only part with it for gold (it's saying "fuck off you cunt" politely).

Like I said before, wipes happen pretty regularly in LFR, and not due to enrage timers (if they even exist in that mode). If what folks like yourself claim was objectively correct, wipes wouldn't happen ever, the repeat attempt buff wouldn't be in place, etc.

Additionally, 150k dps is probably about right for an average player who just meets the LFR gear requirements.

[shyguybman]

Then normal isn't raiding. To me it is a cakewalk, unfortunately I don't have 9 other me's to work with which is the big issue with raiding.

That's why there's the LFG option built into the game!

[Mister Cheese]

Then normal isn't raiding. To me it is a cakewalk, unfortunately I don't have 9 other me's to work with which is the big issue with raiding.

That's why there's LFR. So you can find others to work with you.

[melodramocracy]

To me

Now we're getting somewhere.

[Otimus]

That's funny. But just because it's called "Looking for Raid" doesn't mean it qualifies for actual raiding. No guild will take you if you say you have experience in LFR. No boss fight is remotely similar to any level of thought required to do them on normal, with the exceptions of bosses with instant kill mechanics. And if they are, blizzard nerfs them. You know why? Because it's not raiding. And a majority of the people do them have no interest in raiding in normal or above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

[Jtbrig7390]

That's funny. But just because it's called "Looking for Raid" doesn't mean it qualifies for actual raiding.

No what qualifies it is that....

1) Your in a raid group.
2) You fight raid boss's.
3) You are inside a raid.
4) It lets you look for a raid and do it.

[Aliven]

That's funny. But just because it's called "Looking for Raid" doesn't mean it qualifies for actual raiding. No guild will take you if you say you have experience in LFR. No boss fight is remotely similar to any level of thought required to do them on normal, with the exceptions of bosses with instant kill mechanics. And if they are, blizzard nerfs them. You know why? Because it's not raiding. And a majority of the people do them have no interest in raiding in normal or above.

Actually, even Mythic raid guilds would take if you show them logs and gameplay on Mythic level in LFR group. Because they dont care about it, they care about you. Stupid tryhards are what giving raiding bad name, not LFR.

And yes, LFR is raiding. You basically arguing with the word of God now (blizzard stated it is raiding).

[Holydush]

The fact that you have to unlock the base appearance on the grid to open up other color options is annoying, that's all for me.

[Mister Cheese]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

What does no true scotsman have to do with this? It's true. If they were interested in raiding normal or above this thread wouldn't exist in the first place.

[Florena]

No it's not. Raiding requires thought, tactics, and actual skill. LFR you can just run in and zerg and get free loot.

Raiding isn't defined by difficulty. It can be super easy and still be raiding.

[Tech614]

You can't brute force it, stop making shit up.

You definitely can. Every important mechanic on fights has either been changed to be forgivable and easily recoverable from or out right removed on normal from the heroic counterpart. It's what they used to do to LFR... in normal now.

Anyone who's actually done the raid on normal knows how easy it is.

[Otimus]

What does no true scotsman have to do with this? It's true. If they were interested in raiding normal or above this thread wouldn't exist in the first place.

You're all "This isn't REAL raiding because of arbitrary reason, despite being in a raid group within a raid instance! They're not REALLY raiding because of this, they're not TRUE raiders because of this." You're applying arbitrary emotion to warp the actual vernacular of things. It's totally no true scotsman. How isn't it, lol.


NOTE I AM NOT DEFENDING THE SKIN'S ACCESS OR WANTING IT OR ANYTHING, I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE SKIN AT ALL, JUST MAKING A POINT AND OBSERVATION ABOUT HOW WORDS ARE BEING USED. I KNOW SOME PEOPLE SOMETIMES THINK BECAUSE YOU COMMENT ON THESE SORT OF THINGS, YOU'RE MAKING SOME SORT OF STANCE AND JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS, BUT I'M NOT DOING THAT.