Warlock Buffs arent enought!!

[Deleted]

Affliction is fin eif not overpowered on AOE, which is the only thing that makes it good for Mythic +

However, there are plenty of other classes almost as good, and they do much better single target, and that's the damage I was talking about. It really doesn;t help that locks in general but particulaly afflict gets pidgeonholed by it;s talents. You absolutely must take Sow the Seeds to do AOE. And it's better to take Sacrifice too. Both of those make a bug hole in affliction's already woeful single target

And affliction is great at aoe, sure, but when the week's modifier is Raging, and spam aoe'ing is a good way to murder your tanks or at least overstress your healer....plus you have to start thinking about whether you group has enough single target dps to carry the afflock during the boss fights. And you start to think about whether it woul dbe better to take a mage or demon hunter, both of which can pull excellent aoe and much better single target than affliction, not least because they can talent for aoe with much lower single target losses than affliction can

I'd love to hear warlocks are doing well. They aren't, though. The best you can say about them is that they require much more skill and effort to deliver mediocre rewards, and the way things are going, specswapping is gong to be a thing, what other class has to do that?

And if you look, the post I quoted does NOT include affliction. The poster was doing logs for mythic Nythendra and stated they could not find one for affliction.


Affliction just feels like a one trick pony, sure, it;s good at AOE in mythic + dungeons where the mobs are long enough lived, but what else is it good at? And evern this value will be degraded by increasing gea rlevels in other classes, as stuff will be burst aoe down, like it already is in normal/heroic modes and begingging to be in normal mythic modes too.

Affliction's single target is just way too low, this issue is partly due to the fact that Soul Flame does nothing whatever for single target, Wrath only does if you have a stream of adds to keep up the buff, and Reap Soul is tied to a supply of tormented souls

Affliction is extremely imbalanced, not least because the artifact is heavily tilted towards boosting affliction where it's already strong and providing little where it is weak.

It a single target fight like Nythendra, Soul Flame is utterly useless, Wrath is utterly useless, and you are starved of tormented souls to power up Reap as well - the self-proc rate is way too low.

The artifact is very obviously designed around the original Reap mechanics, where Ulthalesh itself provided those "adds" so you wouldn't be starved of self-buffs. But then they ripped that out and neve rmodified the rest of the talents to mitigate doing so.

[Deleted]

You're going to "here" exactly what you want to hear. You don't want to see or hear Warlocks doing well, so you will look to no end to find the result you want to find. It's funny that the person you quoted brought up single target fights and included numbers from Destruction and Affliction but not Demonology - which is the best Warlock spec for those fights. I wonder if there's an agenda there?

"Abusing cleave" isn't even something that applies to Destruction because our cleave is almost always on priority targets.

If you can't do +5 Mythics as Affliction, that's a L2P issue. Which is fine. We're all learning. But affliction is fine in Mythics - that is not where people have complaints about the spec. In fact, that is the only place were Affliction can hang. And one spec being dead does not mean the class is dead nor is that a Warlock only problem - most classes have at least one dud spec. Affliction needs work, no doubt.. but sheesh. Make sure your criticisms of the spec are in line with its actual problems if you're going to be so vocal about them. You might confuse the already confused devs

You can quote me directly. You can clearly see that I stated Demo is better off.
Also what good does it do for Affliction and Destro if Demo is better than those 2. I really don't understand what you are so mean towards me (indirectly). I was honest about the numbers I quoted. Not everyone wants to play Demo and secondly Demo is not that great.

I don't think it is nice how you treat people. Saying stuff like "l2p" is mean.

[Deleted]

oh come on, who cares about affliction when its stupid artifact has on death mechanics which won't be fixed until big patch if ever. Demonology and destruction are pretty good place atm, while we r not as overpowered like warrior or fire mage or doing easy rotation to do max dps. i have been doing quite well on with current buffs and did full hc clear in one day with 97%+ percentuals as demo

[Deleted]

You can quote me directly. You can clearly see that I stated Demo is better off.
Also what good does it do for Affliction and Destro if Demo is better than those 2. I really don't understand what you are so mean towards me (indirectly). I was honest about the numbers I quoted. Not everyone wants to play Demo and secondly Demo is not that great.

I don't think it is nice how you treat people. Saying stuff like "l2p" is mean.

Well, he does have a point in you not listing demonology for those fights, when you listed so many others. I don't know what the results are though, stopped bothering. My main issues have moved on to being a lot of talent swapping + the item for swapping talents being expensive, locked behind a profession, and overpriced in the sense that you spend one to be able to swap all talents, instead of one to swap one talent and making mats for one tome reflect that.

Demonology also didn't feel very good to play, still clunky and a huge chunk of damage going away when having to move, some times more than others. I just really hope that the idea Ion threw out during the interview is what they are working on (Semi-permanent army).

Affliction would be in a much better spot with something more to spend shards on, and an execute phase again.

Destruction should get some damage cut from havoc and have single target buffed accordingly. Juicy chaos bolts would be nice to have back. That, and some more interesting interactivity between spells (Incinerate is a big one in that regard).

Edit: And honestly, if they would remove life tap, I would be so happy. It never feels good to use, and those times where you opted to use an instant cast on the move instead of life tap could easily mean you end up having to use life tap at a point where you don't have to move. It never feels rewarding to use, and I seriously question anyone who thinks it does.

[Deleted]

oh come on, who cares about affliction

People who want to play affliction? I absolutely loath destruction with a passion, I don;t like that playstyle at all. Demo is okay, but not really to my taste. As you say the on-death afflictin artifact doubly screws affliction, as if it wasn;t bad enough even wtihout that handicap.

[Deleted]

At least tonite I was top raid dps over the dh's so apparently the buffs did something.
Affliction btw.The way a lock Is meant to be played.

[Deleted]

Warlock buff not enough ohhh pls cry a river to Dk's

[Deleted]

Last night my numbers put me 95-99 percentiles for warlocks yet on my raids parses im 8th to 14th on those fights. Great seeing those orange numbers but sucks to see me being so far down the ladder.

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Could just be that your guild isnt that good. Even with the buffs we are still behind other classes.

Yeah i know, im raiding with my irl buddies in a relaxed guild right now, on dragons of nightmare i had 360k dps(before buffs) and had 12.5% of the damage done. Only 3 other dps managed to get above 200k dps. According to the new logs were still a bit behind the other classes :/

[Goldielocks]

I was in a EN LFR yesterday, and a demo lock was top every fight. Of course he had ~850 ilvl, but I'm sure others in that raid (like me) were as well.

Locks are fine. You can't expect all 3 specs to be really good.

[Gratlim]

Demon hunters have been heavily nerfed. Maybe you're just bad?

They did get a hit on ST dps (150% instead of 200% Bloodlet mostly). But they are still top 3 with mage and MM. Locks are not. And they are still nr 1 AOE.
Fel Barage untouched, Beam Untouched, Fel Rush / Fury -20%.

[Deleted]

I was in a EN LFR yesterday, and a demo lock was top every fight. Of course he had ~850 ilvl, but I'm sure others in that raid (like me) were as well.

Locks are fine. You can't expect all 3 specs to be really good.

Actually they are not if you compare them to the other classes. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...lty=4&sample=1

I know that this is only after 1 day but still, it doesnt look that good even after the buffs. Its still better tho.

[Nethlord]

Warlock buff still short compared to performance of other classes, we really didnt improve that much, demon hunters, monks and hunters still doing OP damage compared to warlocks. Are warlocks really gona be fixed or should we start to re roll a new class??

You're right, the buffs were a band-aid to a playstyle designed to NOT be conducive to current instance design (Dungeon/Raid). Perhaps the next tier will be more forgiving (i'm not holding my breath on this one. The thing is when we can sit there and tunnel down something, you can hit like a truck. Also: HASTE HASTE HASTE!!!!!. I went out and fixed all the stat weights for gear for both demo and destro. My demo single target sustained with about 10% more haste than I did prior to the shuffling (23% to now 31%) went up about 100k from before. You can't stop stacking haste (destro at 30%). If you haven't reached the speed force in haste as demo; you're doing it wrong.

If you're not seeing any changes in your output since the buffs, your gear stats are off, can't really see an increase in output if you're using the wrong kind of gear after the buff. Hang in there, things will fall into your lap.

Also, Buy the potion of deadly grace, on burst it's outright insane with hero/bloodlust.

[Deleted]

Well, he does have a point in you not listing demonology for those fights, when you listed so many others. I don't know what the results are though, stopped bothering. My main issues have moved on to being a lot of talent swapping + the item for swapping talents being expensive, locked behind a profession, and overpriced in the sense that you spend one to be able to swap all talents, instead of one to swap one talent and making mats for one tome reflect that.

Demonology also didn't feel very good to play, still clunky and a huge chunk of damage going away when having to move, some times more than others. I just really hope that the idea Ion threw out during the interview is what they are working on (Semi-permanent army).

Affliction would be in a much better spot with something more to spend shards on, and an execute phase again.

Destruction should get some damage cut from havoc and have single target buffed accordingly. Juicy chaos bolts would be nice to have back. That, and some more interesting interactivity between spells (Incinerate is a big one in that regard).

Edit: And honestly, if they would remove life tap, I would be so happy. It never feels good to use, and those times where you opted to use an instant cast on the move instead of life tap could easily mean you end up having to use life tap at a point where you don't have to move. It never feels rewarding to use, and I seriously question anyone who thinks it does.

Simply not true. I said demonology was higher. !!
Warlock class is more than just 1 spec.
I don't have relicts or AP for Demo

[Coldfire989]

What I don't understand though is this need to be first on dps meters. If your contributing well, enjoying the class and doing decent damage what does it matter?

People like to make excuses for why they suck

[Deleted]

Simply not true. I said demonology was higher. !!
Warlock class is more than just 1 spec.
I don't have relicts or AP for Demo

In detail : Nythendra :

Top Destruction Warlock - 316K
Top Retribution - 460K
Top Arms - 407K
Top Enhance - 388K
Top Arcane Mage - 385K
Top Shadow - 383K
Top Monk - 370K
Top Rogue - 366K
Even Fury, Hunter and some other classes offspecs are 340K+. Only Death Knight seems to be around Destruction


Ursoc :

Top Destruction - 326K
Top Affliction - 270K
Top Retribution - 498K
Top Arms - 440K
Top Shadow 408K
Top Enhance 407K
Top Feral 395K
Top Mage 375K
and so on

Where is demo there? I specifically said (And Jondar said something along the same lines) - "He does have a point in you not listing demonology for those fights, when you listed so many others".

Edit: This was all you said about demo:

- Simulationscraft is completely wrong about Demo locks. While they are good on ST they are more than 10% behind Retribution, Arms, Enhance etc.

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People like to make excuses for why they suck

I think we need some clarifications on what it takes to suck.

Edit2: On a more positive note, hoping to see some cool stuff on the PTR today.

[Deleted]

In detail : Nythendra :

Top Destruction Warlock - 316K
Top Retribution - 460K
Top Arms - 407K
Top Enhance - 388K
Top Arcane Mage - 385K
Top Shadow - 383K
Top Monk - 370K
Top Rogue - 366K
Even Fury, Hunter and some other classes offspecs are 340K+. Only Death Knight seems to be around Destruction


Ursoc :

Top Destruction - 326K
Top Affliction - 270K
Top Retribution - 498K
Top Arms - 440K
Top Shadow 408K
Top Enhance 407K
Top Feral 395K
Top Mage 375K
and so on

Where is demo there? I specifically said (And Jondar said something along the same lines) - "He does have a point in you not listing demonology for those fights, when you listed so many others".

Edit: This was all you said about demo:

- Simulationscraft is completely wrong about Demo locks. While they are good on ST they are more than 10% behind Retribution, Arms, Enhance etc.

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I think we need some clarifications on what it takes to suck.

Edit2: On a more positive note, hoping to see some cool stuff on the PTR today.

why you have to be so unfair. I said it one post after or before that demo is doing a bit better. It's not fair.

Also demo is not doing as good as the other classes still! I said so.

[Deleted]

why you have to be so unfair. I said it one post after or before that demo is doing a bit better. It's not fair.

Also demo is not doing as good as the other classes still! I said so.

Relax :P It just stuck out to me. And yes, demo isn't doing as well as others, mostly because it is so reliant on not moving at all, especially in a few crucial moments.

I'm just hoping that we get to see some of that semi-permanent demon army stuff on the PTR today. Would be nice to see some of the long term fixes to warlocks, since they (Blizzard) apparently refuse to shed light on what they have planned. I would be much more relaxed about the warlock situation if I had any idea what they have planned for us.

[pies1]

There are 24 DPS specs. Not all 24 can be top. Some spec will always be nr. 1 and some spec will always be last. When you're in the middle it's fine. You're asking to be made OP.

Celestalon pls go

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At least tonite I was top raid dps over the dh's so apparently the buffs did something.
Affliction btw.The way a lock Is meant to be played.

All that tells us is your dhs need to get their shit together

[purebalance]

Please re-roll.
Bet you are one of these people that won't be satisfied till chaos bolt becomes instant cast, costs no shards, does 800% more dmg based on spellpower and rain of fire is a series of cataclysms all raining down together instead of fireballs, spawning infernals on impact. Also throw in KJ cunning (MoP edition) while you are at it.

Also a guy earlier mentioned some pretty awesome numbers above which could just as well mean that you s-u-c-k. His post is just as credible as yours, so why should I believe you and not him? :d

MoP KJ cunning wasn't even that OP to where if you weren't terrible, you could actually use the other talents and get more dps out of them. Wow casting your filler spell on the move.... so stronk.

[Kithelle]

Warlock buff still short compared to performance of other classes, we really didnt improve that much, demon hunters, monks and hunters still doing OP damage compared to warlocks. Are warlocks really gona be fixed or should we start to re roll a new class??

Try being a Frost DK