MH17 missile 'came from Russia', Dutch-led investigators say

[Kellhound]

There were other equally plausible explanations at the time, and either way to this day this support still isn't proven beyond any reasonable doubt. There is enough information to conclude with high probability it happened (and likely happens to this day), but nothing conclusive.

But if I support position X, why would I stop defending it? Especially when after I do say that most people in conversation suddenly starts to think absolutely everything bad that was written about Russia in that conflict is true and i'm confirming it.

Simply because that's not how Russian forces were operating there in general. It breaks the pattern in big way. Ammunition wasn't "disappearing", it was delivered to specific groups and locations that needed it; i don't see why that particular direction needed something as big as BUK without rest of the package, and why would anyone turn control over it (or at least target selection) to local Ukrainians.

Social media, same place videos of BUK came from.

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Those were claimed by both sides (rebel and Ukrainian) to be captured without keys (which are supposedly unique for each, and BUKs cannot launch missiles without them). Rebels wanted to circumvent it but supposedly lacked expertise in that regard - it's not like BUK schematics are freely available on Internet.

I would not be surprised if all it takes to override the keys is one person who knows the technical aspects and a bit of time, or an engineer and more time.

[Crispin]

I like how the rebels shooting down the jet, is the fault of the airliner and neo-nazis ofcourse, get your heads checked, seriously.

[Shakadam]

Big shock... everyone knew this already.


Russia will keep denying it and come up with their own theories. Nothing will come from this "revelation" and no one will face any consequences. The status quo will go on.

[TwistedSkull]

The way that some try to excuse this happening is astounding to say atleast.

[Buckeyenut88]

Russians are just the worse.

[Gref]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean...nes_Flight_007
Interesting read. Just as a side snack. Nothing to do with this one.

[bloodmoth13]

Lol, do people actually believe that russia smuggled a Buk missile launcher into ukraine, to shoot down a civilian ariliner, then smuggled it back?

This story is bullshit, the investigation comittee was hardly unbiased, russia was excluded while ukraine was admitted, the whole thing stinks

[Shalcker]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean...nes_Flight_007
Interesting read. Just as a side snack. Nothing to do with this one.

As it happened, we also had other one five years before that - also Korean Airlines.

Only two casualties on that one though.

Violating airspace is bad.

[bloodmoth13]

Their sources are social media? what a joke! seems anyone can post 'concrete evidence'

[Ausr]

Their sources are social media? what a joke! seems anyone can post 'concrete evidence'

Russia's evidence of terrorist activities in Syria was a picture from C&C: Generals. Yep.

[Deleted]

How? Ukraine did not expect Russian military plane going from west to east, however the seperatist that down a number of Ukraine military plane/helicopters days before did expect Ukraine military plane going from west to east.....

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HURRRAAYYYY!!!!!! It only took 2 years.... are you not angry that the Russian media/goverment is lying so much? Saying that they do not suport the seperatists?

So lets make a summary, Putin lie about the green men, Putin lie about Russia suport to the seperatist, Putin did lie about Ukraine Su-25 shooting down the Flight 17, but we shall beleve him now about the BUK

if they dont expect russian planes
then why did ukraine have buk vehicles in the area at all ?
incompetence or something else ?

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The way that some try to excuse this happening is astounding to say atleast.

wel to be fair its a pretty big hipocrasy for americans to complain about it
as you killed 250 people recently by bombing syrian troops when your essentially illigal in syria according to international law, but i gues that only aplys for non-nato countrys


as for the plane
if the rebels did shoot it down then its 90% sure it was by accident and wouldnt be suprised if it was done with a ukraine buk that they captured not a russian one
which makes the ukraine army grosly incompetent or liable as they had no reason to station those anywhere near the rebels and they must have been aware that the rebels captured such vehicles and stil let the airplane fly over

but on a sidenote this should be resolved the same way as previous accidents and that is essentially a apoligy and some financial benefits payed to the relatives
ukraine shot down a russian airliner to in the passed and the americans did the same and both where resolved that way, i see no reason for this to be any difference

[Kellhound]

As it happened, we also had other one five years before that - also Korean Airlines.

Only two casualties on that one though.

Violating airspace is bad.

Shooting down unarmed passenger planes as they are leaving your airspace isnt exactly good either.

[Easo]

But of course Russia has nothing to do with it. /s
There is not much else to say, wonder have to happen to bring guilty before the court.

[Gaaz]

Actually, Ukrainian military has a history of shooting civilian targets. In 2000 a surface-surface missile struck a 9 storey building in the city of Brovari. Luckily, it was a bunker buster, so it went through all 9 floors and detonated in commercial zone that was closed for the night. Nevertheless, 3 people were killed.
In 2001 Ukrainian military shot a passenger jet flying from Israel to Russia during military excerises. Due to technicalities they still officially deny that. However, sacking of ukrainian Defence Minister and anti air chief general shortly after, might hint us at who is actually responsible.
They had at least 3 major ammunition storage fires recently. And I do not mean a little locker room filled with AK-74 kind of fires. More like 31000 ground-ground rockets going off at once kind of fires (and countless train cars of other ammunition).
I would not be surprised if MH17 was shot by ukrainian military as well. Call me sceptical of russian involvement.

[Hooked]

Why did the plane change course and fly directly over the danger zone?. Who was the pilot of that plane?.

[bloodmoth13]

Why did the plane change course and fly directly over the danger zone?. Who was the pilot of that plane?.

The whole western narrative is a joke, the fact that people are going along with it is terrifyng

[Ausr]

Why did the plane change course and fly directly over the danger zone?. Who was the pilot of that plane?.

It's perfectly legal to fly at the height that plane did. Unfortunately, when you give anti air weapons to fucking idiot rebels who can't identify airplanes, that's is what happens.

[Purpleisbetter]

Flashback to the massacre of the Cermis and Ustica.

Well, gotta say the USMC,at least, actually fired some personnel and offered some compensation while, on the other hand, french military...

Personally, i think, besides the obvious conclusion no one will ever pay, this will be nothing but another golden chance for the Russian's govt to ride the "demonic west wants us dead" horse just to keep the consensus high.

Btw, i'm skeptical about a real involvement by russians forces. Not because i find it impossible or whatever, but part of the JIT is Ukrainian; i don't feel like i can exclude any kind of bias given today's politics.

[Kellhound]

Actually, Ukrainian military has a history of shooting civilian targets. In 2000 a surface-surface missile struck a 9 storey building in the city of Brovari. Luckily, it was a bunker buster, so it went through all 9 floors and detonated in commercial zone that was closed for the night. Nevertheless, 3 people were killed.
In 2001 Ukrainian military shot a passenger jet flying from Israel to Russia during military excerises. Due to technicalities they still officially deny that. However, sacking of ukrainian Defence Minister and anti air chief general shortly after, might hint us at who is actually responsible.
They had at least 3 major ammunition storage fires recently. And I do not mean a little locker room filled with AK-74 kind of fires. More like 31000 ground-ground rockets going off at once kind of fires (and countless train cars of other ammunition).
I would not be surprised if MH17 was shot by ukrainian military as well. Call me sceptical of russian involvement.

The Russians have had several major ammo explosions themselves the past 5 years or so. They are not much better than the Ukrainians.

[luckydevours]

How about people actually take a closer look at the evidence instead of offhandedly dissmissing it because it doesn't fit their narrative:

Presentation preliminary results criminal investigation MH17 28-09-2016

If you don't like to read there are also videos: