Final Boss for this Expansion

[Deleted]

Corrupted Tyralyon

[Aquamonkey]

A lot can happen 9 years when an infinite army is marching across the universe eradicating every planet they come across.

The Legion isn't infinite. They can infinitely respawn (unless killed properly), but the army isn't infinite.

[Shaqthefat]

The Legion isn't infinite. They can infinitely respawn (unless killed properly), but the army isn't infinite.

Near infinite is what I believe it was described as in the Chronicle

[CaptainV]

First of all, no, Chronicle pretty much says it was Yogg and never once mentions Nzoth to my recollection as having anything at all to do with the Nightmare. Yogg was only able to do this due to the world tree in Northrend being connected to the dream and reaching to deep near/into his prison. Nzoth had no way to enter the ED and the only mention was Metzen talking out of his ass as usual at Blizzcon and his statement was "I thought we had said he was responsible" to the point that it was like he didn't even know, but was trying to say so(hint they never said Nzoth was EVER, but headcanon lovers made the connection when in reality it was just that after being defeated in the book, Xavius was the darkness at Aln). So until you bring some definitive proof that Nzoth was in the dream, he wasn't. And metzen talking out of his ass isn't proof since he also has said many other untrue things about lore at Blizzcon.

Secondly, all of your other statements can easily lead to Nzoth being the 2nd tier raid rather than the final tier since they claim there will be 3 raid tiers this expansion. Nzoth and Azshara are chumps on par with Ragnaros and Lei Shen and don't really deserve more than an interlude.

Ill correct you:

The Emerald Nightmare was basically created by Yogg-Saron but acts as an entry way to the dream by -ALL- of the Old Gods, which after Yogg's death, N'zoth took over. Yogg-Saron is also only mentioned at -one- point in regards to the nightmare in game, by Xal'atah which mentions him as its creator, which is correct, but that does not mean he currently occupies it, as it is evident by Il'gynoth that N'zoth is its current denizen host.

Given the corruption also co-exists with N'zoths colourscheme in his hearthstone card portrait it is rather safe to assume he has strong dominion over it right now.

Also, Chris Metzen -was- the lead writer of Blizzard itself, to say he was talking out of his ass is a joke considering he literally -wrote- the damn universe, if he -wants- to retcon the entire chronicle book at will he could even if he no longer works for blizzard.

No doubt Dave Kosak will find his own way to make new forms of inconsistencies though to his credit he has not failed so far to be consistant.

Regardless:

Second point, N'zoth is far too prominant a power to be anything short of a demi-being, also remember that Azshara in lore was noted in canon to be one of the ONLY beings in this universe on PAR with Sargeras himself in terms of potential power that she could rise to.

It is worth noting she has had CENTURIES to grow in power and has been fueled during them by the old gods influence and secrets, there is no doubt in my mind Azshara by this point, could -easily- go toe to toe with Sargeras and the Legion in a fair fight, she literally dominated Mannaroth like he was a puppet.

N'zoth being her sponsor is even -more- powerful, though listed as the weakest of the old gods consider the damage Y'shaarj death did to Azeroth. The Gods are not weak in what they can do in terms of true devastation, and for a time, they all but ruled the world unchallenged until the entire pantheon was forced to overwhelm them.

N'zoth vs Sargeras would be a fairer fight than you think, and Kil'jaeden? Kil'jaeden wouldnt last 5 seconds against an Old God, hes not even close to that level of power.

No, the chances are we will be responsible for unleashing N'zoth on the world in order to combat the Legion, given the whisperings of Il'gynoth it seems all too obvious that we are being played with the pillars of creation as a means to free the god from his prison.

And to point something out, doing that, would make him nigh unstoppable.

If you think the Gods are weak, your fooling yourself, look no further than the influence of Yogg-Saron, one who literally showed us the death of Arthas and Bolvars supplanting him in the subtlest of ways.

Your being played, perfectly, they have manipualted the entire situation into the most convinent opportunity for us to finally free them, given we will have -no- choice but to rely on the power of one evil to destroy another.

Which will lead to an even greater problem in the future. In laymans terms, if N'zoth isnt the final villian, at the very least, we will be forced to unleash him to destroy the Legion, along with making Illidan Sue into Sargeras 2.0 to in turn defeat N'zoth.

[Aquamonkey]

also remember that Azshara in lore was noted in canon to be one of the ONLY beings in this universe on PAR with Sargeras himself in terms of potential power that she could rise to.

Never happened.

It is worth noting she has had CENTURIES to grow in power and has been fueled during them by the old gods influence and secrets, there is no doubt in my mind Azshara by this point, could -easily- go toe to toe with Sargeras and the Legion in a fair fight, she literally dominated Mannaroth like he was a puppet.

So has Grom.

N'zoth being her sponsor is even -more- powerful, though listed as the weakest of the old gods consider the damage Y'shaarj death did to Azeroth. The Gods are not weak in what they can do in terms of true devastation, and for a time, they all but ruled the world unchallenged until the entire pantheon was forced to overwhelm them.

N'zoth vs Sargeras would be a fairer fight than you think, and Kil'jaeden? Kil'jaeden wouldnt last 5 seconds against an Old God, hes not even close to that level of power.

The Old Gods are nothing to titans. Aman'Thul literally reached down from the sky and plucked Y'Shaarj (the most powerful Old God) like a weed.

[MikeBogina]

The Old Gods are nothing to titans. Aman'Thul literally reached down from the sky and plucked Y'Shaarj (the most powerful Old God) like a weed.

Though I agree in raw power and physical, the Titans are vastly more powerful, I think the Old Gods with the right situation, could own a Titan. We're most likely gonna see them own Sargeras in this chest match that he doesn't even know he's playing.

[Kallisto]

Ill correct you:

Second point, N'zoth is far too prominant a power to be anything short of a demi-being, also remember that Azshara in lore was noted in canon to be one of the ONLY beings in this universe on PAR with Sargeras himself in terms of potential power that she could rise to.

And I'll correct you:

When Mannoroth was angry with Azshara he wanted to attack her but realised it was folly. But at the same time realised that his masters. That means Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde are more powerful than she is.

Not equally as powerful but a lot more.

[MikeBogina]

The Legion isn't infinite. They can infinitely respawn (unless killed properly), but the army isn't infinite.

I dont even think every demon can infinitely respawn. You'd think that they'd be fearless in death, but in War of the Ancients, they fled Deathwing, even knowing Archimonde would punish them. Which leads me to believe the weaker ones can't regenerate their bodies on their own.

And in the Demon hunter finally, the male dude asks KJ to bring him back when he dies. He's supposed to be more powerful, but he needs KJ's help. Unless it would naturally take him years on his own.

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It is worth noting she has had CENTURIES to grow in power and has been fueled during them by the old gods influence and secrets, there is no doubt in my mind Azshara by this point, could -easily- go toe to toe with Sargeras and the Legion in a fair fight, she literally dominated Mannaroth like he was a puppet.

Archimonde was more powerful than her and he has continued to gain power throughout the thousands of years that have passed. She might have fed off Old God influence, but he has fed on 1000's of worlds worth of souls and powers. According to the Warcraft 3, he was a world tree away from being as powerful as Sargeras, which is most likely retconned now that Chronicles has bumped Titans to world size cosmic beings.

I would still believe that N'zoth being an Old God puts him above Archimonde and anything else in the universe, besides Sargeras in his Titan form(Which Sargeras isn't in)

[Snuffleupagus]

Though I agree in raw power and physical, the Titans are vastly more powerful, I think the Old Gods with the right situation, could own a Titan. We're most likely gonna see them own Sargeras in this chest match that he doesn't even know he's playing.

Old Gods only exist because the only way their makers, Void Gods, can corrupt a Titan is via the Old Gods.

And even then, they require the Titan to be "unborn", like with Azeroth.

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First of all, no, Chronicle pretty much says it was Yogg and never once mentions Nzoth to my recollection as having anything at all to do with the Nightmare. Yogg was only able to do this due to the world tree in Northrend being connected to the dream and reaching to deep near/into his prison. Nzoth had no way to enter the ED and the only mention was Metzen talking out of his ass as usual at Blizzcon and his statement was "I thought we had said he was responsible" to the point that it was like he didn't even know, but was trying to say so(hint they never said Nzoth was EVER, but headcanon lovers made the connection when in reality it was just that after being defeated in the book, Xavius was the darkness at Aln). So until you bring some definitive proof that Nzoth was in the dream, he wasn't.

Yogg Saron opened the door, so yes, N'Zoth is the likely candidate. He basically discovered the way in via Andrassil, and the others realised any world tree was a door.

The titans are 100% planet. There are in fact beings made of stars that serve the titans called constellars like Algalon. The titans themselves are not made of stars at all. They are huge, but oddly enough the constellars are smaller which is weird since in our reality stars are much larger than planets.

Constellar looks like humanoid constellations, their origin is unclear and therefore comments about size are ridiculous.

Pretty sure also Chronicle did say there were more than just the pantheon, or at the very least more world souls they had found. It did not say if any of them had matured later or if Sargeras had killed them. However, it lists out the Pantheon by name and Aggramar is not included in that list which is a clear indicator that there were in fact other titans that were not a part of the pantheon.

Aggramar was indeed part of the Pantheon. He was Sargeras' student and comrade.

The only thing we know is that Aman'Thul was the first to awaken, and no one knows how or why. He awoke the others, and thus far is the only known Titan to have awakened on their own. There is no mention of any other Titan to have awakened. and until proven otherwise, no Titans exist(ed) outside of the Pantheon and World Souls (unawakened Titans).

If I were to speculate, the Light (via the Naaru) woke Aman'Thul, and Titans are incapable of waking without help from another Titan or a prime force. That would mean that while the Light can awaken a Titan, so can the Void, which is probably what really freaked Sargeras out.

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Though I agree in raw power and physical, the Titans are vastly more powerful, I think the Old Gods with the right situation, could own a Titan. We're most likely gonna see them own Sargeras in this chest match that he doesn't even know he's playing.

Titan forged waged war on the Old Gods and won. The only reason to not kill them was the fact that Aman'Thul ripping Y'Shaarj from Azeroth created a massive gushing wound that would eventually be staunched and become the Well of Eternity.

You're probably right - they are master game players, and are probably playing US into defeating Sargeras for them.

[bigcheese12]

avatar of sargeras for sure, or blizz might just make another old god raid............... instead of making it, its own expansion.

[Snuffleupagus]

avatar of sargeras for sure, or blizz might just make another old god raid............... instead of making it, its own expansion.

Past expansions would indicate final boss = lead into new expansion.

Garrosh starts WoD
Archimonde starts Legion (via Guldan)
Last boss of Legion starts... ?

[Deleted]

Past expansions would indicate final boss = lead into new expansion.

Garrosh starts WoD
Archimonde starts Legion (via Guldan)
Last boss of Legion starts... ?

The journey to Argus, hopefully.

I know half of the opinions state that there is simply no enough content on Argus to carry an entire expansion, but I can hope.

[Deleted]

Sargeras in the body of Illidan. (Avatar of Sargeras)

INB4: While Gul'dan's ritual to make Illidan's corpse the vessel for Sargeras appears to be unsuccessfull at 1st it becomes appearent to us that it actually succeded and we have been made a fool off, by him making us slay all possible opposition on Azeroth and getting us close to the slumbering titan.

[Tornwar]

-- The hand of Sargeras --

In the final raid, Tomb of Sargeras, at the very end of the raid, the heroes and leaders of Azeroth and Khadgar encounters the Legion portal. Khadgar uses the power of the Pillars of Creation to close to portal. But in the middle of it all, Sargeras' hand burst through the portal. The portal is not yet big enough for him to travel through, so all he can do is try and stop Khadgar with only his hand.

This is a timed encounter.

You have to keep fighting back the hand and what else lies in store for you. Sargeras' hand isn't the only thing that has slipped through.

Once the timer is up and Khadgar is still alive, he finally gets to close the portal, which in turn will CHOP OFF SARGERAS' HAND! SNAP! As you beat the final boss, you can hear Sargeras' screaming in pain from beyond the portal. His chopped hand turns to dust and Sargeras is now armless! Woo!

See? Wasn't that clever?

[purebalance]

Old Gods only exist because the only way their makers, Void Gods, can corrupt a Titan is via the Old Gods.

And even then, they require the Titan to be "unborn", like with Azeroth.

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Yogg Saron opened the door, so yes, N'Zoth is the likely candidate. He basically discovered the way in via Andrassil, and the others realised any world tree was a door.



Constellar looks like humanoid constellations, their origin is unclear and therefore comments about size are ridiculous.



Aggramar was indeed part of the Pantheon. He was Sargeras' student and comrade.

The only thing we know is that Aman'Thul was the first to awaken, and no one knows how or why. He awoke the others, and thus far is the only known Titan to have awakened on their own. There is no mention of any other Titan to have awakened. and until proven otherwise, no Titans exist(ed) outside of the Pantheon and World Souls (unawakened Titans).

If I were to speculate, the Light (via the Naaru) woke Aman'Thul, and Titans are incapable of waking without help from another Titan or a prime force. That would mean that while the Light can awaken a Titan, so can the Void, which is probably what really freaked Sargeras out.

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Titan forged waged war on the Old Gods and won. The only reason to not kill them was the fact that Aman'Thul ripping Y'Shaarj from Azeroth created a massive gushing wound that would eventually be staunched and become the Well of Eternity.

You're probably right - they are master game players, and are probably playing US into defeating Sargeras for them.

Nowhere in any source unless you can provide it does it say that Nzoth was in the dream. Hell the current quest text in legion says even Il'gynoth is legion affiliated.

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Past expansions would indicate final boss = lead into new expansion.

Garrosh starts WoD
Archimonde starts Legion (via Guldan)
Last boss of Legion starts... ?

Just because there is a recent semi trend doesn't mean every expansion now will end like a Saturday morning cartoon villain escaping and plotting mayhem

[Aucald]

Nowhere in any source unless you can provide it does it say that Nzoth was in the dream. Hell the current quest text in legion says even Il'gynoth is legion affiliated.

Not sure about N'Zoth being *in* the Dream, but he's definitely the current force behind corrupting it. While the weekly "go kill X" quest associates Il'gynoth with the Legion - I believe this is probably just a placeholder script where the kill of the week gets swapped in. Il'gynoth itself associates with N'Zoth by name in its various whispers to players during the encounter. It is definitely related to the Old God, and not a product of the Legion or explicitly allied with the Legion (unlike Xavius).

[purebalance]

And I'll correct you:

When Mannoroth was angry with Azshara he wanted to attack her but realised it was folly. But at the same time realised that his masters. That means Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde are more powerful than she is.

Not equally as powerful but a lot more.

Much less that was when she was doped up on being fully saturated with the well's power. Take the current elves in legion(the nightborne) for instance. Imagine basically Azshara was not only never having to worry about not getting her crack juice, but also she was shooting it up every hour on the hour for more power since it was literally a part of her house.

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Not sure about N'Zoth being *in* the Dream, but he's definitely the current force behind corrupting it. While the weekly "go kill X" quest associates Il'gynoth with the Legion - I believe this is probably just a placeholder script where the kill of the week gets swapped in. Il'gynoth itself associates with N'Zoth by name in its various whispers to players during the encounter. It is definitely related to the Old God, and not a product of the Legion or explicitly allied with the Legion (unlike Xavius).

Does not. There's only 3 quests for the kill: Xavius, Cenarius, and Illy. Each of them have a different text.

Also cite me evidence SPECIFICALLY stating Nzoth was behind the nightmare and no using Metzen mouthing off about shit he doesn't know as normal.

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Ill correct you:

The Emerald Nightmare was basically created by Yogg-Saron but acts as an entry way to the dream by -ALL- of the Old Gods, which after Yogg's death, N'zoth took over. Yogg-Saron is also only mentioned at -one- point in regards to the nightmare in game, by Xal'atah which mentions him as its creator, which is correct, but that does not mean he currently occupies it, as it is evident by Il'gynoth that N'zoth is its current denizen host.

Given the corruption also co-exists with N'zoths colourscheme in his hearthstone card portrait it is rather safe to assume he has strong dominion over it right now.

Also, Chris Metzen -was- the lead writer of Blizzard itself, to say he was talking out of his ass is a joke considering he literally -wrote- the damn universe, if he -wants- to retcon the entire chronicle book at will he could even if he no longer works for blizzard.

No doubt Dave Kosak will find his own way to make new forms of inconsistencies though to his credit he has not failed so far to be consistant.

Regardless:

Second point, N'zoth is far too prominant a power to be anything short of a demi-being, also remember that Azshara in lore was noted in canon to be one of the ONLY beings in this universe on PAR with Sargeras himself in terms of potential power that she could rise to.

It is worth noting she has had CENTURIES to grow in power and has been fueled during them by the old gods influence and secrets, there is no doubt in my mind Azshara by this point, could -easily- go toe to toe with Sargeras and the Legion in a fair fight, she literally dominated Mannaroth like he was a puppet.

N'zoth being her sponsor is even -more- powerful, though listed as the weakest of the old gods consider the damage Y'shaarj death did to Azeroth. The Gods are not weak in what they can do in terms of true devastation, and for a time, they all but ruled the world unchallenged until the entire pantheon was forced to overwhelm them.

N'zoth vs Sargeras would be a fairer fight than you think, and Kil'jaeden? Kil'jaeden wouldnt last 5 seconds against an Old God, hes not even close to that level of power.

No, the chances are we will be responsible for unleashing N'zoth on the world in order to combat the Legion, given the whisperings of Il'gynoth it seems all too obvious that we are being played with the pillars of creation as a means to free the god from his prison.

And to point something out, doing that, would make him nigh unstoppable.

If you think the Gods are weak, your fooling yourself, look no further than the influence of Yogg-Saron, one who literally showed us the death of Arthas and Bolvars supplanting him in the subtlest of ways.

Your being played, perfectly, they have manipualted the entire situation into the most convinent opportunity for us to finally free them, given we will have -no- choice but to rely on the power of one evil to destroy another.

Which will lead to an even greater problem in the future. In laymans terms, if N'zoth isnt the final villian, at the very least, we will be forced to unleash him to destroy the Legion, along with making Illidan Sue into Sargeras 2.0 to in turn defeat N'zoth.

You corrected nothing and pretty much spouted head canon. Thanks.

I'll only address the Metzen part: Metzen has been proven to not know his own lore constantly from the original red shirt guy instance to claiming that yogg and cthun dying caused the Cataclysm when in game explained in detail that it was 100% Deathwing shattering the world pillar when he emerged from Deepholm. So, no, Metzen saying "Hur dur dint we already say Nzoth was the one" when they never did say it is definitely not canonical.

[Aucald]

Does not. There's only 3 quests for the kill: Xavius, Cenarius, and Illy. Each of them have a different text.

Also cite me evidence SPECIFICALLY stating Nzoth was behind the nightmare and no using Metzen mouthing off about shit he doesn't know as normal.

"Ultimate Visual Guide", pg. 33
N'Zoth's entry in the Hearthstone blog (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/20073614/)
"World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1", pg. 124 (Yogg-Saron first accessed the Dream, granting entry to the Old Gods as a group. N'Zoth is the last Old God left extant and active)

There is also a thread on this very forum that explores the whispers of Il'gynoth - explicit reference and implication connect him, and the Nightmare, directly to the Old Gods. N'Zoth is the last Old God left alive and working towards whatever end it has in mind.

[purebalance]

The wrath guard rare in the warden part of the DH starting area. He says something along the lines of "Your world is the last standing"

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Il'gynoth's death quote is literally "N'zoth... I journey to Nyalotha."

Blizzard even stated that N'zoth was the driving force behind the cataclysm and that hasn't even been retconned. While it is likely all 3 old gods contributed to corrupting him it was N'zoth that played part on the cataclysm. Yogg-Saron get more credit than he deserves. He opened the way to the emerald dream, he isolated Odyn, and he isolated the other keepers to Ulduar. That's all he has done without the other old gods. N'zoth fueled the Cataclysm, made the naga, and now has complete control of the Emerald Nightmare.

The majority of your claims are, as usual for these forums, head canon. Show me proof please.

Deathwing was virtually alone in causing the Cataclysm and Nzoth's MINIONS jumped on the bandwagon.

Sure I'll give you the naga, but not made he simply stopped them from becoming scratching crack fiends drowning in the ocean and instead made them reptilian sea creatures.

Xavius has complete control of the nightmare. In game quest text also implies the nightmare is legion affiliated now.

I really don't care about his whispers or quotes. In game text flat out says Il'gynoth is a legion member.

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"Ultimate Visual Guide", pg. 33
N'Zoth's entry in the Hearthstone blog (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/20073614/)
"World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1", pg. 124 (Yogg-Saron first accessed the Dream, granting entry to the Old Gods as a group. N'Zoth is the last Old God left extant and active)

There is also a thread on this very forum that explores the whispers of Il'gynoth - explicit reference and implication connect him, and the Nightmare, directly to the Old Gods. N'Zoth is the last Old God left alive and working towards whatever end it has in mind.

You showed 0 proof. You cited Chronicle which says Yogg opened a door. You did not show Nzoth in the dream, thus you failed to prove your point.

You have not been able to refute the in game reference to Il'gynoth being legion affiliated since your claim that it was something that was a rotation has been proven wrong since each iteration has its own quest text(Illy Xavius Cenarius). It is 100% plausible that he was of old god origin, but in game text flat out states he is legion allied.

UVG is garbage since a ton of inaccuracies exist within it like stating that Deathwing is LITERALLY Wrathion's father which is impossible due to how he came about so I really could care less about UVG.

Other games are non canonical when it comes to WoW(as in HotS and Hearthstone). They are nothing to do with the universe.


Try, try, try again.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The majority of your claims are, as usual for these forums, head canon. Show me proof please.

Deathwing was virtually alone in causing the Cataclysm and Nzoth's MINIONS jumped on the bandwagon.

Sure I'll give you the naga, but not made he simply stopped them from becoming scratching crack fiends drowning in the ocean and instead made them reptilian sea creatures.

Xavius has complete control of the nightmare. In game quest text also implies the nightmare is legion affiliated now.

I really don't care about his whispers or quotes. In game text flat out says Il'gynoth is a legion member.

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You showed 0 proof. You cited Chronicle which says Yogg opened a door. You did not show Nzoth in the dream, thus you failed to prove your point.

You have not been able to refute the in game reference to Il'gynoth being legion affiliated since your claim that it was something that was a rotation has been proven wrong since each iteration has its own quest text(Illy Xavius Cenarius). It is 100% plausible that he was of old god origin, but in game text flat out states he is legion allied.

UVG is garbage since a ton of inaccuracies exist within it like stating that Deathwing is LITERALLY Wrathion's father which is impossible due to how he came about so I really could care less about UVG.

Other games are non canonical when it comes to WoW(as in HotS and Hearthstone). They are nothing to do with the universe.


Try, try, try again.

Just because you disagree, doesn't make you right. Sorry bro the lore is agaisnt you, and always will be when you try to denounce half of it.