Call to topple Christopher Columbus statue from its Barcelona perch

[Deleted]

I cant think of an instance that taking down a statue led to erasing people from history.... minus the usual old fashioned conquests that pretty much just resulted in the destruction of a culture and its history.

Focus less on this specific form of culture vandalism and more on the very concept of such acts in general.

[GennGreymane]

Focus less on this specific form of culture vandalism and more on the very concept of such acts in general.

I kinda am, and I cant think of an example when someone was erased from history when their statues were removed, which is the argument that confuses me.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

I know this gets thrown around a lot but...

Christopher Columbus is literally worse than Hitler.

If you produce even a tiny amount of melanin then you need to boycott one of the all-time mass murderers of European History.

[Nynax]

I kinda am, and I cant think of an example when someone was erased from history when their statues were removed, which is the argument that confuses me.

They can do w/e they want I suppose. I just don't really see the point in removing something that has been up for 128 years, what's it really going to accomplish, really? Some people (who are not even the American tribes conquered) go "we feel better," most people don't give a shit, A historical artwork gets destroyed, and tax dollars have been wasted in the effort.

[GennGreymane]

They can do w/e they want I suppose. I just don't really see the point in removing something that has been up for 128 years, what's it really going to accomplish, really? Some people (who are not even the American tribes conquered) go "we feel better," most people don't give a shit, A historical artwork gets destroyed, and tax dollars have been wasted in the effort.

Thats a better argument than the one that is confusing me.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

He didn't open it to the "rest of the world" so much that he revealed that it was ripe for exploitation. (The Americas weren't missing out on anything, or do you imagine in some way that they benefited from their own genocide? Over 90% of the indigenous population in North America alone were wiped out in the following 2 centuries. "Manifest Destiny" is a rather cruel joke. )

Columbus didn't "discover" anything. There were plenty of people living here already.
No one believed the world was flat. The Greeks had that already down cold 2 thousand years earlier. (There's a good argument that Egypt knew as well even sooner)
Columbus wanted gold, slaves, anything. When he made a return trip after his first he brought close to twenty ships and a legion of armed men, which raped and pillaged as they pleased. Anyone that fought back were brutalized in various ways. (e.g., noses, ears cut off)
The resulting diseases would eventually kill off entire populations.

Newsflash, everyone wanted gold, slaves anything at the time and everyone was willing to kill, torture, and rape in the process of getting it. This includes the Africans, American Natives and everyone else across the globe, so spare me your selective empathy and outrage. With regards to the diseases, well shit happens. They were simply a natural process that occurs when outsiders enter into a previously isolated environment. That was no more Columbus or the other European's fault than the wind that pushed their boats over the Atlantic.

As to the rest of your comments, you were one of those annoying kids in class who loved to derail an obvious point arguing over semantics weren't you? He discovered it to the Europeans who were poised to take advantage of that discovery, and changed the world in the process. The Greeks did not discover it, and the nomads from Asia who crossed the Bering land bridge in the last ice age didn't open it up for European colonization, so stop blathering on about it as though it refutes what he did, because it doesn't.

[nextormento]

I kinda am, and I cant think of an example when someone was erased from history when their statues were removed

Well, you can't think of these people because they were erased from history, duh.

[sethman75]

I cant think of an instance that taking down a statue led to erasing people from history.... minus the usual old fashioned conquests that pretty much just resulted in the destruction of a culture and its history.

You seen whats happening in Syria right now?

Also Germany starting on Poland and then trying for the rest of europe is a glaring example

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Newsflash, everyone wanted gold, slaves anything at the time and everyone was willing to kill, torture, and rape in the process of getting it. This includes the Africans, American Natives and everyone else across the globe, so spare me your selective empathy and outrage. With regards to the diseases, well shit happens. They were simply a natural process that occurs when outsiders enter into a previously isolated environment. That was no more Columbus or the other European's fault than the wind that pushed their boats over the Atlantic.

As to the rest of your comments, you were one of those annoying kids in class who loved to derail an obvious point arguing over semantics weren't you? He discovered it to the Europeans who were poised to take advantage of that discovery, and changed the world in the process. The Greeks did not discover it, and the nomads from Asia who crossed the Bering land bridge in the last ice age didn't open it up for European colonization, so stop blathering on about it as though it refutes what he did, because it doesn't.

Makes me wonder in 500 years will the people think company CEO's of today are the same as slave traders were back then.

You mean they made people go to do work they didn't want to do. How barbaric

[GennGreymane]

You seen whats happening in Syria right now?

Also Germany starting on Poland and then trying for the rest of europe is a glaring example

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Makes me wonder in 500 years will the people think company CEO's of today are the same as slave traders were back then.

You mean they made people go to do work they didn't want to do. How barbaric

I had no idea Syria started based on an a statue being taken down.

[Deletedaccount1]

I know this gets thrown around a lot but...

Christopher Columbus is literally worse than Hitler.

If you produce even a tiny amount of melanin then you need to boycott one of the all-time mass murderers of European History.

He was bad but in no way was he as bad as Hitler.

[Sunseeker]

He was bad but in no way was he as bad as Hitler.

Mathematically, no he was not, but if you come from a part of the world that does not enshrine Jews, then some bad guy in history killing those guys over there seems a lot less bad than that one particular bad guy who killed "your people".

[Deletedaccount1]

Mathematically, no he was not, but if you come from a part of the world that does not enshrine Jews, then some bad guy in history killing those guys over there seems a lot less bad than that one particular bad guy who killed "your people".

What? So if you are Native American then Columbus was worse? I don't understand.

[lockedout]

An incompetent dickhead?

I would hate to live in your world.

[Deleted]

This is why I think no one should celebrate him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYTXRDtYzYc

[ItachiZaku]

Destroy it. He didn't do anything but open the gateway to destroying my people. We'll get our revenge! /ShakesFist

[Shadowferal]

Neocons are liberals

George Bush was a liberal?
Cheney was a liberal?

Newsflash, everyone wanted gold

We're not talking about everyone. We're talking about one person and what he really was in history.
So stop trying to derail that point.
After all had it been anyone else we wouldn't be talking about him.

[willtron]

I like how all of this is just discussing Columbus as a bloke, and nothing to do with him and his ties to Barcelona. Or why the statue is even there in the first place. Or whether it should be taken down or not.

[Shadowferal]

What? So if you are Native American then Columbus was worse? I don't understand.

In a way that's probably accurate. The Taino and the Caribs were almost all wiped out. And "opening the door" to exploitation led to the annihilation of over 90% of the population in North America, whole tribal regions were erased from existence in what followed. But I'm sure someone will argue that such was the natural process for what conquerors do...

It's not something we should cheer about however.

[satimy]

George Bush was a liberal?
Cheney was a liberal?


We're not talking about everyone. We're talking about one person and what he really was in history.
So stop trying to derail that point.
After all had it been anyone else we wouldn't be talking about him.

They certainly weren't in favor of a limited government

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people celebrate Mandela and mlk inspite of their flaws, Colombia should have been black so he could be an unjudgeable hero

[Drilnos]

I make no judgements as to the content of his character, but he was still an important historical figure, he did things which at least eventually resulted in some good, and it is indeed a nice statue. If that group wants to put up a monument to the slave trade, which I have no problem with, they've got plenty of places to put it that aren't on that statue's ruins. My two cents.