No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[shyguybman]

Just putting things in perspective.

So, roughly 7-8 days /played to complete part 1 of pathfinder. That's ~180 hours spent at level 110, above and beyond the time spent leveling. Part of that number is, of course, spent doing other non-pathfinder related things, and part of that time is also serving a double purpose when you can line up objectives.

Like I said, it's an interesting number. Gives us at least some factual info to use in the discussion.

I mean, 4/6 achievements you can do in a week, the only one that is gated is revered with all factions & the suramar one is gated behind rep & emerald nightmare.

[Ordinator]

What you're describing is exactly the type of investment that prevents people from viewing the game more critically or objectively. They are not just making a decision to not pay for a part of the game they disagree with, they're making a decision to give up on upwards of 12 YEARS of invested time, effort, and emotional investment in their characters and the game. (this is why I find the response of "If you don't like it then leave" to be so asinine)

I personally think Blizzard banks a lot of their changes on the idea that people won't give up on their investment. They know they can push the envelope while experimenting with new ideas, even if they're bad ideas, because not only will people not leave, but many fans will automatically leap to their defense without thinking(for the exact same reasons!).

This is also why I dislike the argument that "Most people aren't saying anything because they're just enjoying the game".

Blizzard has manipulated us into defending no flying. WAKE UP EVERYONE!! You know all that time you spent on your character? Well SirCowdog is here to tell you that time doesn't mean shit IF YOU CANT FLY!!!!

Most people aren't fanatic enough to think like this.

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Just putting things in perspective.

So, roughly 7-8 days /played to complete part 1 of pathfinder. That's ~180 hours spent at level 110, above and beyond the time spent leveling. Part of that number is, of course, spent doing other non-pathfinder related things, and part of that time is also serving a double purpose when you can line up objectives.

Like I said, it's an interesting number. Gives us at least some factual info to use in the discussion.

The only perspective that matters is a lot of people are probably completing the achievement around this time by just playing the game and not crying about doing it. I don't understand why you're so concerned with "factual info" when you have this entire patch to finish it. You're not flying this patch either way.

[Deleted]

Let's make sure to get a thread going that's like 20000 pages long to talk about it for several months.

So you've got what you wanted, eyy.

[Maneo]

Interesting fact, most movies about airplanes or super heroes that can fly are predominantly filmed on the ground, or indoors. Iron Man can fly, but if you count the in-air time vs ground time, I think you will find 90% (or more) of the film is done with non-flying sequences. Flight is an exciting excursion, but even as a pro-flier, I am not confident how much I would enjoy the game if I could do everything while mounted and flying.

Think you missed the point.

So using your example .. IronMan would be better if instead of flying to where the bad guys are .. he walked there instead?

Anytime the heroes went somewhere (unless they were moving a decent number of troops), they flew or teleported.

[Thimagryn]

This is just one more example of the concept I keep pushing of mixing flight-enabled areas with no-flight areas. Stormheim could have easily used the dragons in the area, as well as the harpoons to create an effective deterrent to using your flying mount in, or around, the quest area. Thus making grappling the more useful tool in that situation. Instead: TROLOLOL! U no fly for reasons!

I know it's just an example, but I think it's one that would frustrate players more than make them appreciate non-flight travel mechanics.

[Deleted]

I don't see the point in flying mounts in an expansion where you cannot fly, I wonder if people defending no flying would feel different if blizzard disabled them mounts from being summoned period in Legion until flying is released.

[Eats Compost]

The grappling hooks in Stormheim were an interesting gimmick, but could have been scattered all over the expansion to spice things up. Unfortunately they only used it in very small areas. It's not really a fair comparison to something like flight, which can generally be used almost everywhere in the outdoor open world.

This is just one more example of the concept I keep pushing of mixing flight-enabled areas with no-flight areas. Stormheim could have easily used the dragons in the area, as well as the harpoons to create an effective deterrent to using your flying mount in, or around, the quest area. Thus making grappling the more useful tool in that situation. Instead: TROLOLOL! U no fly for reasons!

Be more specific about how the deterrent to flying would work. What would the dragons do to the flying player, and under what circumstances? What would the harpoons do?

[SirCowdog]

Think you missed the point.

So using your example .. IronMan would be better if instead of flying to where the bad guys are .. he walked there instead?

Anytime the heroes went somewhere (unless they were moving a decent number of troops), they flew or teleported.

Just add to the list:

The entire fight against the leviathan flying through the streets of New York? What about all the aliens riding flying cars and shooting at people while iron-man and the hulk fight back from the air? What about every time Thor spins his hammer and flies into something? The Falcon flying around dodging fire from the Helicarrier? Drones chasing Iron Man and Warmachine through the air?

There's plenty of examples of combat going on mid-flight in Marvel movies. Besides which, movies are an entirely different medium than Videogames, so um going to tie this in with MMOs that did have flying combat:

City of Heroes allowed you to fight while using high-speed travel powers, but as soon as you got flagged for combat the speed dropped dramatically, and the cost of all your abilities increased.

DCUO also has flight and combat, but again, the moment you're in combat the speed drops. And I think Champions Online did something similar, although I haven't played that game in years.

My point with all this is that there are plenty of ways to address flying and combat without nuking it entirely., while still maintaining the feeling of empowerment for the player.

Older games with smaller dev teams and less funding could manage these solutions, why can't Blizzard?

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Be more specific about how the deterrent to flying would work. What would the dragons do to the flying player, and under what circumstances? What would the harpoons do?

This is off the cuff, but maybe the dragons latch on and drag slowly to the ground(thus preventing free movement, but also giving a chance to fight back without falling damage/death). With patrolling dragons it might pit a player in a very compromising position if they fell in a pile of aggro from nearby enemies, assuming they weren't outgeared.

Harpoons could do something similar to a deathgrip pull. Again, stopping movement through the area and forcing engagement with the NPCs.

Or...just daze and dismount, resulting in a fall to a messy death.

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I know it's just an example, but I think it's one that would frustrate players more than make them appreciate non-flight travel mechanics.

It couldn't possibly be more frustrating than having flight denied entirely. Besides which, isn't the entire point of removing flight to create obstacles? Why then are obstacles in the air any more or less frustrating or interesting than those on the ground?

[xanzul]

People still can't see the difference between teleports and unrestrained flying? Someone had pretty decent illustration showing what seems to be the fairly obvious difference. I won't bother finding or explaining it because fly babies are too concerned with their circle jerk arguments to care.

Oh they understand it perfectly well. At this point it is blatant trolling and unfortunately aren't being infracted for it.

Infracted: Don't call people out for trolling. Report instead. {MoanaLisa}

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The flight whistle makes the entire point of exploring Broken Isles pointless. It is almost like the right hand of the dev team doesn't know what the left hand of the dev team is doing anymore lol. This is why it is possible the conflicting info regarding flight for Legion has hit this road block where the dev team as a whole is not on the same page.

It only applies to known flight paths but I suspect you know this already.

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It felt like desperation to me. Like Blizzard will do anything to keep the players from becoming unbearably annoyed with no flying. But at some point the amount of toys, gimmicks, etc is just going to get silly, personally I think it already reached that point but that's just my personal opinion. Finishing a quest and just clicking on the damn whistle felt totally ridiculous. And then you just get a blank screen it doesn't show you flying there just ports and you land, lol. If the choice had been flying or whistle I couldn't see myself ever choosing the whistle unless I was planning to take an AFK FP anyway so I could get food or use the bathroom.

The guy who thought flying mounts made him feel like a silly fairy flying around? Yeah, that's how I felt about the whistle. It just felt silly. I hate ground travel so I used the thing for the entire two days I did world quests on beta for my class campaign, because I'll deal with something that seems silly over something I actually hate, but it certainly felt weird and disconnected to me.

I'm sorry but what? Who has ever said they felt like a silly fairy like flying? You flybabies aren't even trying anymore and are resorting to straight up lies.

Infracted: Don't call people out for trolling. Report instead. {MoanaLisa}

[ComputerNerd]

that is not true blizzard could make them coexist

They already do.
It is players that insist they don't.
Players that don't want us making choices different from theirs.

The content for the most part is designed with ground travel in mind.
It is accessible via the ground, therefore anyone is welcome to and is losing nothing by continuing to be grounded.
This dragging it on by blizzard is due to some silly belief that their "ideal experience" of the content is something people are going to enjoy if forced upon for long enough.
That is simply not the case.

The only problem areas I see are those areas which actually require flying to access.
It being inconvenient via the ground is still accessible via the ground, as long as it is via means available to everyone.

You should have the travel experience that suits you.

[Deleted]

I really want all the no fly people to not be allowed to fly when it finally returns. They like crawling on the ground around so much, they should get to enjoy it forever.

[Dhrizzle]

I really want all the no fly people to not be allowed to fly when it finally returns. They like crawling on the ground around so much, they should get to enjoy it forever.

I don't think there are any "no fly" people as you put it. I'm certainly going to fly and enjoy it when the final part of Pathfinder is released, but at the moment I'm enjoying the content that has been designed to be tackled from the ground.

[Eats Compost]

This is off the cuff, but maybe the dragons latch on and drag slowly to the ground(thus preventing free movement, but also giving a chance to fight back without falling damage/death). With patrolling dragons it might pit a player in a very compromising position if they fell in a pile of aggro from nearby enemies, assuming they weren't outgeared.

Harpoons could do something similar to a deathgrip pull. Again, stopping movement through the area and forcing engagement with the NPCs.

Or...just daze and dismount, resulting in a fall to a messy death.

The first two suggestions just seem like they allow flying until something forcibly grounds you anyway, and the latter sounds like it'd either be an exercise in frustration or somewhat ineffectual. The former suggestions also still give people a grace period that wouldn't really do anything about players dropping on top of their quest target, which is relevant when considering how many world quests are only about killing a single enemy.

The idea that there could be a graceful compromise is one thing, but actually executing a graceful compromise is a big design challenge. I think that suggesting that they find one is less important than actually proposing something specific. If they had a good solution ready to go, they would've implemented it years ago.

[Healing Rain]

The developers who dislike flying moving to a different game would be the perfect compromise.

[Maneo]

The developers who dislike flying moving to a different game would be the perfect compromise.

In regards to world travel Blizzard really seems intent on regressing then progressing.

The simple question is this who does disabling flight benefit? Sure as hell isn't the player, in WoD and now in Legion I fail to see one thing that is improved by not having flight.

Everything the anti flight folks will list as a positive is created by having content .. not disabling flight. They can't understand that though cause it doesn't fit into there narrative.

Simple question, for the anti flight folks. Is there anything currently in game you wouldn't be doing if flight was enabled? Cause I know there is a lot more I would be doing if flight was enabled.

[-Joker-]

Think you missed the point.

So using your example .. IronMan would be better if instead of flying to where the bad guys are .. he walked there instead?

Anytime the heroes went somewhere (unless they were moving a decent number of troops), they flew or teleported.

Capt America can't fly, he has to use a plane and requires a pilot. My point is, the bulk of most super hero movies is not the method of transportation, but rather the action that occurs in pivotal scenes. No one ever goes to see a Superman movie and say, "Oh, well he just flew. No need to see the rest of the film." While having flight is an amazing feature, living without it for a patch or so is not game breaking for most players.

If most players were bothered by the lack of flight, this thread would be 20k pages by now with several hundred pro-flight posters. My guess is, there are about 5-10 people on each side of the topic keeping it alive for 544 pages. Seems like a silly reason not to play the game. You get flight eventually anyway, and still have to land to do most of the requirements. Exploration and most treasures are about the only flight accessible parts of the achievement.

[Thimagryn]

It couldn't possibly be more frustrating than having flight denied entirely. Besides which, isn't the entire point of removing flight to create obstacles? Why then are obstacles in the air any more or less frustrating or interesting than those on the ground?

Actually, it can be.

I can see the argument shifted in exactly the opposite scenario we have right now. Instead of the complaint that we have to wait to unlock flying, it would be shifted to having flight be 'crippled' by having no-flight subzones.

"I leveled up to max, did my achievements and paid my dues to get flight, only to have it inaccessable where I need it the most. I would rather Blizzard just delayed its release let us unlock unhindered flying and instead of clipping our wings and gimping flight. We worked for flight, we should be allowed to explore and enjoy it!"

We've had areas made inaccessible through sky patrols before, but nothing so obvious in tandem with a travel mechanic. This only makes travel mechanics an easy scapegoat for more 'Blizzard favours gimmicks over flight!' rhetoric.

[-Joker-]

I don't see the point in flying mounts in an expansion where you cannot fly, I wonder if people defending no flying would feel different if blizzard disabled them mounts from being summoned period in Legion until flying is released.

I think an expac without mounts could be interesting, at least til patch X.1. Make the entire area like one big 5 man indoor instance. Take us completely underground to the center of Azeroth (not Deepholm) and have us rely on ziplines, mine carts, grappling hooks, and other items for transportation. Leaving flight out til 7.1 is not a nightmare, unless you are just not skilled or motivated enough to manage the terrain without just hopping over most of it. Considering mobs and resources are no longer a competition, full time flight would not be bad, but I'm sure Blizz wants people to at least see the content from the ground first, and then the skies.

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Oh they understand it perfectly well. At this point it is blatant trolling and unfortunately aren't being infracted for it.

I'm sorry but what? Who has ever said they felt like a silly fairy like flying? You flybabies aren't even trying anymore and are resorting to straight up lies.

Anger like this is seldom constructive in topics, even one as worn and antiquated as this one. Flight will eventually make a reappearance. It's easier to just express a calm and level view rather than continue to poke at those who are already irrational in some of their posts.

[Mafic]

In regards to world travel Blizzard really seems intent on regressing then progressing.

The simple question is this who does disabling flight benefit? Sure as hell isn't the player, in WoD and now in Legion I fail to see one thing that is improved by not having flight.

Everything the anti flight folks will list as a positive is created by having content .. not disabling flight. They can't understand that though cause it doesn't fit into there narrative.

Simple question, for the anti flight folks. Is there anything currently in game you wouldn't be doing if flight was enabled? Cause I know there is a lot more I would be doing if flight was enabled.

It doesn't improve the devs ability to retain players with grounding players for half an expansion. And the devs seems to be myopically fixated on instanced content for patch 7.1 and 7.2. The true test is if they start testing flight in patch 7.2. If they do not do a test when patch 7.2 goes on PTR then this mid expansion talk to bring back flying is all simply hot air.

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It only applies to known flight paths but I suspect you know this already.
.

Discovering a flight path is not game play. Yeah I said it.

[SirCowdog]

The first two suggestions just seem like they allow flying until something forcibly grounds you anyway, and the latter sounds like it'd either be an exercise in frustration or somewhat ineffectual. The former suggestions also still give people a grace period that wouldn't really do anything about players dropping on top of their quest target, which is relevant when considering how many world quests are only about killing a single enemy.

As I said, those were ideas off the top of my head. But how would they be any worse than the invisible walls or cliffs or dazing monsters on the ground that are already in heavy use across Legion?

As for dropping in on quest monsters, we've been over that subject as nausem. Gliding, stealth, CC, or aggro drops accomplish the same thing, and no one seems to have any problem with those. How is this different?

The idea that there could be a graceful compromise is one thing, but actually executing a graceful compromise is a big design challenge. I think that suggesting that they find one is less important than actually proposing something specific. If they had a good solution ready to go, they would've implemented it years ago.

And haven't they already used many different types of things in the past? You're assuming, or arguing from the assumption, that no-flying is inherently better, and that flying is the problem. Except that up until WoD it wasn't. It wasn't until Blizzard tried to force the issue with such blunt lack of finesse that it became a problem.