Is the economy busted?

[Lei]

Well, we haven't seen profession tuning yet, except for engineers which helped like a kiss would help a dead.

[karatakor]

To the point it feels Blizzard wants us to spend real money for gold, so we can keep up buying consumables to raid...

[Deleted]

2 people from my guild have stopped raiding because they don't have enough gold to afford raiding mythic (nowadays you need like 50-100k per night), feels bad. I even offered them some gold, but if you don't have some millions from previous expansions (and both players didn't play on WoD) is quite hard this beginning of the expansion (I've already lost close to 2M)

[mysticx]

Gathering got a lot tougher in Legion, scaling mobs, mazelike maps and i don't know how few/many people have three-star gathering yet, so supply is a lot less than it used to be, then the huge materials-demands of crafting (until you work your way to three-star crafts, lots of which are behind exalted reps), and you get a seller's market for materials...

[Clutch]

For those complaining about the cost per mat look at it from the eyes of gatherers where they were 100% useless in the entire expansion in WoD, and in 7.1 everything will shoot down in price since you can trade in Blood of Sargeras for mats. This is only temporary, but has been enjoyable as it makes me get off my ass and go get mats instead of sitting in my garrison picking herbs and mining for what I need to raid.

[Deleted]

. A flask is okay at 3000g each but potions at 1000g each? Not okay, you need 2 per pull.

Don't know what world you live in, but 3000g for a flask is anything but OK.
There is no way I can afford to drop 6000g per night, 3 times a week on flasks. I just simply do not have the time spare to farm the gold or the mats required after finishing work, and lets not even look at the cost of potions.

[Schizoide]

It's Blizzard's fault. They inflated the economy beyond belief with garrison gold, then they didn't add any meaningful goldsinks to drain it back out. They made this happen then refused to fix it.

Thing is, it's actually super easy to fix.

You create a vendor that sells three very cool, unique looking, bind-on-use mounts for 999,000 gold apiece and three bind-on-pickup color-variants of the same mounts for 100,000 gold apiece, then tell players the mount vendor will be permanently removed from the game on November 1.

People with "normal" amounts of gold will immediately buy the three 100k mounts, removing a large amount of their accumulated wealth from the economy.

People who borderline-exploited garrisons for gold like me, making many millions of gold, will also buy the three 100k mounts and then spend all their remaining gold on the 1 million gold mounts, because as they're being removed from the game, their value is sure to appreciate in the future. So the really rich players would remove all their gold from the economy too. Problem solved-- it really is that easy.

[Cheze]

they don't actually want to deflate the value of gold; they never have. Gold has inflated 100-200% from one expansion to the next since BC; people only suddenly noticed in WoD because it was the first time the average non-auctioneer player was able to easily hit the gold cap.

inflation is a tax on the fortunes of wealthy players; if the value of gold ever actually deflated meaningfully it'd be near impossible for new/poor/etc players to afford anything, because wealthier players would be able to buy it all up. If you want even worse price shocks than we're already seeing, by all means deflate ingame currency.

(inflation also acts as something of a hedge against unauthorized RMTs; if its easy to make gold there's less incentive to buy from third party sites.)

[Snackwiches]

It's the combination of WoD + Legion conflicting. Automatic materials vs manual gathering through harsh terrain and scaling mobs, not to mention they've put a "lotus" equivalent on fucking potions.

It has little to do with "it's the start!" doesn't matter. I've raided since vanilla and have never, ever had to farm much to keep up with personal raiding, let alone feel like I *HAD* swap to Alch/Herb.

This is the farming style of early vanilla amplified several times over. I'm probably farming quadruple as much as I did back then and that included flasks, potions for ALL THE HEALERS, tubers out of felwood and soul shards.

For some people this is a huge shock, we're coming off of WoD where from day one you'd just buy the shit off the AH and not give a damn. Now a night of raiding is ~15k++ gold. If you aren't counteracting that with herbalism yourself it's a giant gold drain.

It will be fixed, get money while you can.

[Schizoide]

they don't actually want to deflate the value of gold; they never have. Gold has inflated 100-200% from one expansion to the next since BC; people only suddenly noticed in WoD because it was the first time the average non-auctioneer player was able to easily hit the gold cap.

Not at all. Obviously gold inflates every expansion, but nothing has ever been remotely like WoD, where you could make 1500g every single day for each one of your L100 characters doing nothing but follower missions. I had 11 characters doing that, every single day, for many months.

[Tehterokkar]

OP is severely underestimating the effect Blood of Sargeras vendor will have in 7.1.

I have around 550 Bloods across my 3 characters. When 7.1 launches I can buy 11k Starlight Roses. At current market prices(250g each), that is worth 2.8m.

If I use all my current Bloods to buy herbs for Potions(Deadly Grace), it costs me 10 herbs per potion. With 11k Herbs, that is 1.1k potion crafts, and that is without any procs. If I buy the Dreamleaf from AH(since it's so dirt cheap), I can get 1.8k Crafts, given the rough average of procs(which is pretty much 50% more than you had mats for), I can get 2.7k Potions.

2.7k Potions from the bloods I have currently, and I just recently got the BoS shoulder enchant, which will rack up even more BoS as time goes on. I am set on potions for this entire tier(Nighthold included!) and the next one, just with the bloods I have farmed in 1 month.

[Deja Thoris]

OP is severely underestimating the effect Blood of Sargeras vendor will have in 7.1.

I have around 550 Bloods across my 3 characters. When 7.1 launches I can buy 11k Starlight Roses. At current market prices(250g each), that is worth 2.8m.

If I use all my current Bloods to buy herbs for Potions(Deadly Grace), it costs me 10 herbs per potion. With 11k Herbs, that is 1.1k potion crafts, and that is without any procs. If I buy the Dreamleaf from AH(since it's so dirt cheap), I can get 1.8k Crafts, given the rough average of procs(which is pretty much 50% more than you had mats for), I can get 2.7k Potions.

2.7k Potions from the bloods I have currently, and I just recently got the BoS shoulder enchant, which will rack up even more BoS as time goes on. I am set on potions for this entire tier(Nighthold included!) and the next one, just with the bloods I have farmed in 1 month.

I can't wait to see your face when you realize that 550 bloods will net you 4 times less starlight rose than you think it will.

[DeusX]

Never I expected to have low prices at the start of the xpac, but what happens now it's super exagerated from my point of view. Not everybody farmed garrison missions with 10-11 chars for maximum profit, not everyone is a millionaire. I think Blizz should make some stats about the net worth of every account if they really want to see the current state of things.

As far as I remembered the garisson was not necessarly a mandatory farming place, so they should not balance the game economy around the wealth of the people who done that. Other gold sinks can exist (like the 250k ring). This economy clearly disadvantages the people with low gold (and I include here people with a few hundred thousand gold, which will run out of gold very fast at the current pace).

My grief now is about the lvl 2 potions. Blizzard advertised multiple character development paths: mythic dungeons, WQs, raids, PVP, etc. At this moment, the alchemy profession development is gated behind a mythic dungeon which is also gated behind a hard to get reputation (the Nightfallen). This creates a clear, huge disadvantage for people without reputation farming on the agenda, those people who had chosen to progress their characters in other ways (pvp, raids, roleplay etc). This is because people with lvl 2 potions are the only ones who can get lvl 3, and level 3 has a prety decent proc rate, which means people with lvl 3 will be able to make a profit at lower prices on the AH by selling pots. People like me, with lvl 1 pots, have a much higher minimum price they can ask for making even a small profit.

Too much is gated behind Nightfallen reputation.

On the other hand

[beanman12345]

OP is severely underestimating the effect Blood of Sargeras vendor will have in 7.1.

I have around 550 Bloods across my 3 characters. When 7.1 launches I can buy 11k Starlight Roses. At current market prices(250g each), that is worth 2.8m.

If I use all my current Bloods to buy herbs for Potions(Deadly Grace), it costs me 10 herbs per potion. With 11k Herbs, that is 1.1k potion crafts, and that is without any procs. If I buy the Dreamleaf from AH(since it's so dirt cheap), I can get 1.8k Crafts, given the rough average of procs(which is pretty much 50% more than you had mats for), I can get 2.7k Potions.

2.7k Potions from the bloods I have currently, and I just recently got the BoS shoulder enchant, which will rack up even more BoS as time goes on. I am set on potions for this entire tier(Nighthold included!) and the next one, just with the bloods I have farmed in 1 month.

Did you pull these numbers out your butt? Cause they aren't even close, even pre-nerf.

Yeah you were never set for the entire nighthold tier, lol, but look on the bright side, you're set for a couple weeks now! =)

[Sonrisa]

The problem is the absurd material cost, potions shouldn't use starlight rose period, and should probably go down to 3 herbs of each other type. That would also lower cost of flasks but a slight reduction in materials for them should also go through. Blizzard has long set a precedent of accessible consumables and not spending hours farming before a raid, and the current state of affairs is ridiculous and not ok.

[Snackwiches]

Pots should, at max, use two of two types of herbs. Never any roses.

[Socialhealer]

Umm I don't know anyone with over 500k gold and thats one person.. So where you get raiders are sitting on millions of gold I have no idea its an obscene generalisation.

If you have millions good for you. Most people don't have anything like that kinda of gold.

/wave i got 8 million, now you know someone

[Deleted]

there is a severe imbalance in the supply - demand of potions and flasks at this point.
as well as an imbalance in the amount of herbs required compared to previous expansion.

this trickles down all the way back to herbalism.

for the most part demand >>>>>>>> supply at this point.
this is 1 bottle neck.

the cost of making potions and flasks (based on the amount of materials total, not those materials prices) is pretty high as well.
2X 10 herbs + 1X 7 herbs. 27 herbs to make 1 flask??!!?
this was 2X 4 herbs. 8 herbs for a flask in WoD.
granted, for the greater flasks you need 1 WoD element and 1 Alchemical Catalyst (which to some degree were time gated) but even then the cost is about 3X lower than legion flasks.

and then we have the new proficiency system for crafting and gathering.

for some professions this works great and makes sense.

you got better at crafting X? good job, you can now make X for les materials.

o you got even better at making X? well done, even less materials than before! you earned it.

but for alchemy it's:

rank 2:
o you finally get how you craft this potion? good! now you won't have to come to my special workbench i made you put back together for me, after i fucked up and pissed off some Walter white wannabe Vrykul bitch who got jealous that our bath salts were better than hers.

rank 3:
o well done, now you can play the closest thing to a slot machine we can legally put in this game without it being labelled as online gambling.

and that's just the alchemy part.


for herbalism it's along the lines of:

o, you're looking for franjleblegerblurkaderp? it's right there. behind that mountain on that cliff you can only get to if you drop down from the roof of that building halfway down the map just north of the flight path leading to the place you got that hookshot ripoff that's just a tad bit to short to reach the target ring next to the herb you're looking for from.

dream grass? o yeah just pick that up any ol place, aint no one smoking that crap now though, since we discovered how fucked up you get from those mana roses in suramar.

fox flower? this shit is endangered, highly volatile and can lead to sudden hallucinations of an obscure comedy duo by the name of Ylvis.

aethril? yeah, okay, nothing bad to say about this one really. the area it's in is properly traverse able and it spawns pretty much where you'd expect it without anything overly complex between you and it.
also the proc is pretty down to earth, just kill the dude and get some extra herbs.

Felwort?... really?... why? what are you going to use it for? alchemy stones? yeah... great... really well thought out blizzard.


[rant]
Starlight Rose.
well there's your problem.
you got a herb that is a requirement for 99% of the high end alchemy stuff and to some degree cooking as well.
it wouldn't be an issue if it had a normal drop rate like any of the other herbs, but nooooo it had to be *special* and *unique* and *rare*
fuck this stupid piece of bright blue kindling.
i honestly get the feeling that the people in charge of herbalism and the ones in charge of alchemy were completely oblivious to each others existence.
either that or if it was done by 1 person that had an internal conflict of interest shortly followed by a brain aneurysm, so it never got a final check before being released.
o, you just found a starlight rose?
good job, you get NOTHING, good day sir. because why should we expect to be able to pick these with decent succes considering they are the most required herb for max level alchemy...
[/rant]

yeah, i know, bad words. sorry if that made you feel uncomfortable but at this point i' m not going to censor myself.
venting feels good sometimes and i' m not trying to personally attack anyone with this post, just showing my utter disgust and disappointment in a flawed system.

[Gilthresa]

I made maybe 7 or 8 million gold from doing garrison chores twice a day, everyday on 15-20 chars over the life of WoD...that's it. I've made about 400-500k thus far in Legion selling off stuff I found or made.

My buddy quit for all of WoD, came back, boosted a skinner/LWer and has made over 500k selling leather working stuff and the +5 item for crafted gear. He plays VERY casually.

Not sure how most people aren't sitting on over 500k if they are playing the game...just 100-110 makes you like 20k in gold from quest rewards and vendor trash.

You see the thing is, at least 70% of players quit during the shitfest that was WoD and didn't really feel like entertaining gameplay was to send 10+ alts on missions. I sure as hell know that I didn't want to do that.

[Snackwiches]

500k is still quite a lot if you aren't herbing a fair bit or coming from alt heavy WoD money.

Not surprising that a lot of people dont have WoD money because WoD was liquid fucking shit and wasn't worth wasting time every day opening boxes and sending out missions on 4-5++ characters. If you did that tedium for two years you deserve your money.