Democratic Election 2016 - Hillary Clinton Megathread [OFFICIAL]

[Captain N]

I said it didn't cost me dime to copy my Birth Certificate in my state when I first got my license. I never said I got a free Birth Certificate. I know they are not free because my dumbass ex lost my sons and I had to pay 10 whole bucks to get a copy. He needed so he could get into School and so he could GET A JOB.


And how did they get that Student ID, with 2 forms of ID....

2 Forms of ID like a Report Card from a previous year of schooling and a Social Security Card

You don't need a State ID or a Driver's License to work or go to school which seems to be the argument you're making.

Both of those are still not valid to be used for the purpose of voting.


http://www.greatschools.org/gk/artic...-requirements/


Either a birth certificate or another reliable document stating the child’s identity and age (such as a passport, school ID card, school record, report card, military ID, hospital birth record, adoption record or baptismal certificate). Some schools may require a social security card

Keep trying.

[Edge-]

1. Not everyone investigates it, it could be more common than you think

Then prove it. You can't just say, "But it could be happening all over the place!" and act like that's the reality.

2. Every vote counts or was you asleep during the Gore/Bush election?

I am aware, but again, potentially disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of voters to crack down on a few dozen cases is not something that most folks who are in favor of democracy would support.

It's also, coincidentally something that US courts regularly rule again. Again.

[Garnier Fructis]

1. Not everyone investigates it, it could be more common than you think
2. Every vote counts or was you asleep during the Gore/Bush election?

The argument that 'it's happening, we just don't have evidence' is fundamentally a terrible argument.

[DeadmanWalking]

I said it didn't cost me dime to copy my Birth Certificate in my state when I first got my license. I never said I got a free Birth Certificate. I know they are not free because my dumbass ex lost my sons and I had to pay 10 whole bucks to get a copy. He needed so he could get into School and so he could GET A JOB.


And how did they get that Student ID, with 2 forms of ID....

Oh voter fraud exists, this I know. But Democrats are not the only people who do it. In Florida there was a voting place that locked all registered Democrat forms in a closet and went around telling people that only Republicans could vote there, until the police were called and then mysteriously the forms were found again and even democrats could vote there. In this case the voter fraud was in the thousands of defrauded Democrat voters in an a district that was trying to throw the election to the Republicans through hook and crook.
Go google if most voter fraud is committed by democrats or republicans, go ahead... I'll wait. I love it when people like you assume that all voter fraud is committed by people you disagree with politically because you assume they are naturally evil.

[DocSavageFan]

32 dead people voted in elections casting a few hundred ballots over many, many years. Oh heavens no.

Nobody is saying that voter fraud never happens. It does. But it's blown way out of proportion by the GOP compared to how often it happens given its complete and utter lack of impact so far.

Yes, everyone wants to cut down on voter fraud with the goal of eliminating it. But to potentially disenfranchise tens of thousands of voters to try to stop a few dozen/hundred instances of fraud is silly.

Protip: There's a reason that the courts have regularly ruled against stats with GOP led houses attempts to institute voter ID laws.

Protip? The Supreme Court has already upheld the fundamental premise of these laws...see Crawford v. Marion County Election Board (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawfo...stitutionality) with arguments now revolving primarily around what is considered to be acceptable forms of identification.

- - - Updated - - -

Now if you could convince your legislators to agree with it, we could probably put this issue to rest.

Unlikely imo...it's apparently impossible for some liberals to be reasonable on this issue.

This is what's currently going on in Missouri.

https://thinkprogress.org/lawmakers-...b57#.nqni1dotm

This week, a supermajority of lawmakers sent a bill to the desk of Gov. Jay Nixon (D). Even if the governor vetoes, as he did to a similar one in 2011, lawmakers may have the votes to override it.

Democrats in the state Senate staged an all-night filibuster last week to stop the ID bill, but backed down after striking a compromise deal with Republicans.

The deal involves amendments to the bill that progressive lawmakers say will “ensure no voter is denied his or her Constitutional right to vote.” For instance, the state would be required to provide free photo IDs and any underlying documents necessary to obtain them, such as birth certificates and Social Security cards. Additionally, voters who are unable to get the required ID for whatever reason would be able to sign a legally-binding affidavit promising they are who they say they are, and could then vote with regular ballots.

This is aimed at preventing problems that have surfaced in other states with voter ID laws, including Wisconsin and Texas, where citizens who can’t afford a copy of their birth certificate or lack the means of transportation to get one have been disenfranchised.
Rep. Shamed Dogan (R-Ballwin) called it “the most generous photo ID bill that this country has seen.”

Yet voting rights advocates, including Laura Swinford with the organization Progress Missouri, say they’re not pleased. “They said this will minimize the effect on Missouri voters, but I don’t frankly agree with that interpretation,” she told ThinkProgress. “Depending on how you were raised and socialized, signing documents can be a barrier in and of itself.” She added that it can be especially intimidating for less-educated voters to be handed a complex form that, if filled out improperly, can result in a felony charge for perjury.

[zenkai]

2 Forms of ID like a Report Card from a previous year of schooling and a Social Security Card

You don't need a State ID or a Driver's License to work or go to school which seems to be the argument you're making.

Both of those are still not valid to be used for the purpose of voting.


http://www.greatschools.org/gk/artic...-requirements/


Either a birth certificate or another reliable document stating the child’s identity and age (such as a passport, school ID card, school record, report card, military ID, hospital birth record, adoption record or baptismal certificate). Some schools may require a social security card

Keep trying.

I needed his Birth Certificate and his SS card at every school I have ever registered my son. Which is why I am baffled how illegal immigrants get into school.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh voter fraud exists, this I know. But Democrats are not the only people who do it. In Florida there was a voting place that locked all registered Democrat forms in a closet and went around telling people that only Republicans could vote there, until the police were called and then mysteriously the forms were found again and even democrats could vote there. In this case the voter fraud was in the thousands of defrauded Democrat voters in an a district that was trying to throw the election to the Republicans through hook and crook.
Go google if most voter fraud is committed by democrats or republicans, go ahead... I'll wait. I love it when people like you assume that all voter fraud is committed by people you disagree with politically because you assume they are naturally evil.

I never implied Democrats are the only ones who do it, I would think people on any side of the fence would want an honest election, it's stupid that it's even a democrat vs republican issue.

[Edge-]

Protip? The Supreme Court has already upheld the fundamental premise of these laws...see Crawford v. Marion County Election Board (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawfo...stitutionality arguments now revolve primarily around what is considered to be acceptable forms of identification.

Correct, but you're missing key differences between this ruling and the ruling on laws created in other states including

Under the Indiana law, voters who do not have a photo ID may cast a provisional ballot. To have their votes counted, they must visit a designated government office within 10 days and bring a photo ID or sign a statement saying they cannot afford one.

Something not provided in many of these other states attempts. The crux being that these laws in other states are ruled against because they constitute a poll tax, there are not provisions like there are in this case.

Two different types of apples, one that passes inspection (this case!) and a whole bunch of them that don't (recent rulings over the past few years).

[Captain N]

I needed his Birth Certificate and his SS card at every school I have ever registered my son. Which is why I am baffled how illegal immigrants get into school.

Through the work and education visas they have to get into this country originally and then stay past their expiration dates. It's not like this country is incredibly good at monitoring expiration dates until something draws attention to that person or his/her family.

At least now your arguments make sense

[zenkai]

The argument that 'it's happening, we just don't have evidence' is fundamentally a terrible argument.

A person gets shot - "Ban all Guns"
A cop shoots a black guy - "All Cops are Racist"
Voter Fraud happened - "It doesn't exist!"

Why isn't the same person who usually agree with all of these 3 points?

[DeadmanWalking]

2 Forms of ID like a Report Card from a previous year of schooling and a Social Security Card

You don't need a State ID or a Driver's License to work or go to school which seems to be the argument you're making.

Both of those are still not valid to be used for the purpose of voting.


http://www.greatschools.org/gk/artic...-requirements/


Either a birth certificate or another reliable document stating the child’s identity and age (such as a passport, school ID card, school record, report card, military ID, hospital birth record, adoption record or baptismal certificate). Some schools may require a social security card

Keep trying.

And what if you don't have your birth certificate? School ID cards are a recent thing, older people won't have them. If you don't live near your school it isn't pheasable to get a school record or report card, especially if you are poor. Not everyone joined the military. Not everyone has their birth certificate, not everyone is baptised (and baptism certificates are not government acknowledged forms of identification) and not everyone has their physical social security card because they lost it, it went up in a house fire, what ever. Most people don't get a passport unless they plan to travel out of the country because they are expensive, most americans go on vacation every year but have never actually left the continental united states.

[Edge-]

A person gets shot - "Ban all Guns"

Said by a small group of extreme anti-gun folks.

A cop shoots a black guy - "All Cops are Racist"

Said by a small group of extreme anti-police folks.

Voter Fraud happened - "It doesn't exist!"

Said by precisely nobody in this thread.

You're digging deep on this one.

[Garnier Fructis]

A person gets shot - "Ban all Guns"
A cop shoots a black guy - "All Cops are Racist"
Voter Fraud happened - "It doesn't exist!"

Why isn't the same person who usually agree with all of these 3 points?

This is incoherent babble. First off, controlling certain types of guns is not banning all guns. Second, 'cops are all racist' is a stance that only radicals hold, so unless you're about to generalize everyone against voter ID as being a radical, then this is also nonsense.

And third, 'well these other guys are also irrational so why I can't I argue for my stance irrationally?' is still fundamentally wrong.

[Paranoid Android]

Why isn't the same person who usually agree with all of these 3 points?

A person gets shot - "Ban all Guns"

Most here and everywhere just ask for tougher screenings and banning high capacity, semi-automatic rifles.

A cop shoots a black guy - "All Cops are Racist"

This is funny. It is the other side that likes to make this statement. Most call for police training and that shooting are disproportionately involve African Americans. Not all cops are racist, but why are more Africans Americans are shot.

Voter Fraud happened - "It doesn't exist!"

Again. Every reasonable person here on MMO gives the stats where it is something like .003%. Which statistically is insignificant to voter outcome.

[DeadmanWalking]

I needed his Birth Certificate and his SS card at every school I have ever registered my son. Which is why I am baffled how illegal immigrants get into school.

- - - Updated - - -



I never implied Democrats are the only ones who do it, I would think people on any side of the fence would want an honest election, it's stupid that it's even a democrat vs republican issue.

Yes, but the tripping point is that Republicans like to create laws that coincidentally and I am sure entirely accidently make it harder for elderly black poor voters to vote. They know that the majority of black votes in the non-Obama elections tend to come from elderly black people instead of the young. Elderly black people tend to be on tight budgets and don't typically keep a license on hand since they no longer drive.

In Georgia they try to pass laws that say there is no voting on Sunday, elderly black people get a bus ride to church on sundays, after church the same bus drives them to the polls as a community service. Stopping voting on sundays keeps poor elderly black people from voting, thus Republicans win and Democrats lose in places they would of won.

I'll also note that no amount of ID's would of stopped the Republicans in Florida from committing voter fraud as they were straight up telling Democrats they were not allowed to vote there which is the place they were registered to vote and the only physical location they could of voted.

[Blur4stuff]

Voter fraud happens, but it's almost nonexistent. A tiny number of people have been convicted of it in the past few decades.

Requiring an ID is a sensible idea. But that's not the issue. Republicans suddenly wanting everyone to show ID isn't about the integrity of elections. They are specifically going after voters they think will vote for democrats. They've already been busted on this time and time again.

[zenkai]

And what if you don't have your birth certificate? School ID cards are a recent thing, older people won't have them. If you don't live near your school it isn't pheasable to get a school record or report card, especially if you are poor. Not everyone joined the military. Not everyone has their birth certificate, not everyone is baptised (and baptism certificates are not government acknowledged forms of identification) and not everyone has their physical social security card because they lost it, it went up in a house fire, what ever. Most people don't get a passport unless they plan to travel out of the country because they are expensive, most americans go on vacation every year but have never actually left the continental united states.

And how do you get a Student ID card? You just show up to a school with 0 credentials and they issue you based on honesty?

[Vanyali]

This whole voter ID thing is gets really transparent when you realize in many cases a CCL is acceptable but a College ID isn't.

Weird, I wonder what the difference between those two demographics usually is...

[Breccia]

And how do you get a Student ID card? You just show up to a school with 0 credentials and they issue you based on honesty?

Um...hi. Yeah, I work at a college. You're not just wrong, you're intentionally wrong. You are making shit up and even you know it.

[zenkai]

Voter fraud happens, but it's almost nonexistent. A tiny number of people have been convicted of it in the past few decades.

Requiring an ID is a sensible idea. But that's not the issue. Republicans suddenly wanting everyone to show ID isn't about the integrity of elections. They are specifically going after voters they think will vote for democrats. They've already been busted on this time and time again.

Cops shooting people happens, but it's almost nonexistent. A tiny number of people have been shot by police in the past few decades.

- - - Updated - - -

Um...hi. Yeah, I work at a college. You're not just wrong, you're intentionally wrong. You are making shit up and even you know it.

What am I wrong about, how do I get a student ID card?

[Edge-]

Cops shooting people happens, but it's almost nonexistent. A tiny number of people have been shot by police in the past few decades.

I see what you're trying to do here, but these are not two comparable issues. At all. So please don't try to misdirect by pretending they are.