[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[Deleted]

Went to the dummy again and stood at max range and used heroism from my pet to test it. The small delay I noticed in my previous test was no longer there. Could have been latency, could have been visual, but in case case standing at absolutely max range with heroism is a pretty specific scenario not bound to bother the majority of players even if they have some extra latency.

[Zamochy]

For B, when I use Bestial Wrath and Aspect of the Wild with the Killer Cobra talent, do I focus only Kill Command and Cobra Shot or do I still use Dire Beast above Kill Command?

[Smog]

For B, when I use Bestial Wrath and Aspect of the Wild with the Killer Cobra talent, do I focus only Kill Command and Cobra Shot or do I still use Dire Beast above Kill Command?

You still need to be Dire Beasting. The longer Dire Beast is off CD, the more potential resets you're wasting, which is a huge dps loss.

[Jin]

I have played BM exclusively with Killer Cobra, that doesn't really change anything either. It doesn't matter if it "feels" weird, it doesn't give you more resets, therefore it's not a DPS increase. It just feels better.

Insane how confirmation bias works.

Only because it doesn't feel weird to you doesn't mean it is not for others.

It's funny how ignorance works.

[Azortharion]

Only because it doesn't feel weird to you doesn't mean it is not for others.

It's funny how ignorance works.

Eh? I said whether it feels weird or not doesn't matter. It doesn't make it worse or better because it "feels weird". Is there something about this you disagree with, or will your contribution remain you obviously missing the point? I never said I don't think it feels weird, I never said the opposite either. It doesn't matter if it feels weird.

[Decimus]

Eh? I said whether it feels weird or not doesn't matter. It doesn't make it worse or better because it "feels weird". Is there something about this you disagree with, or will your contribution remain you obviously missing the point? I never said I don't think it feels weird, I never said the opposite either. It doesn't matter if it feels weird.

I know it's hard to ignore them but jesus do you have to deal with a lot of mouth breathers.

[Zantos]

Why would standing in melee range be a DPS increase? You still get the same amount of resets.

I tested it last night. You get 1-2 more procs standing in melee. Especially during Aspect of the Wild up. Though, that is really the only time to do this. Like I said, it doesn't proc until it deals damage. So the further away you are, the longer it takes to proc, the more time to possibly focus cap during aspect or miss out on proc chances. I know there have been a few times where I cast Cobra Shot While BW was up, but didn't get a proc since it didn't deal damage in time.

- - - Updated - - -

I have played BM exclusively with Killer Cobra, that doesn't really change anything either. It doesn't matter if it "feels" weird, it doesn't give you more resets, therefore it's not a DPS increase. It just feels better.

Insane how confirmation bias works.

It does. I tested it my self. You can easily test it too. Standing at Max range vs Melee range, Ignoring DB to ensure no outside factors, its 1-2 more procs. That is small, but its there.

[Tehterokkar]

The projectile moves at 40 yards per second, meaning at max range it'll take it 1 second to reach. With a minimum GCD of .75s, a 30-yard range will make the projectile hit before the GCD is over regardless of how much Haste you have. So yeah.

For some bosses, such as Wrath of Azshara or Naraxas, who are massive and spells take a while to land it is an issue. Especially with Bloodlust. For those bosses I've had to stack in melee during opener to not cap focus because Cobra Shot would otherwise take 1.5 GCD to hit the target.

However for vast majority of bosses it's not really an issue.

[Azortharion]

I tested it last night. You get 1-2 more procs standing in melee. Especially during Aspect of the Wild up. Though, that is really the only time to do this. Like I said, it doesn't proc until it deals damage. So the further away you are, the longer it takes to proc, the more time to possibly focus cap during aspect or miss out on proc chances. I know there have been a few times where I cast Cobra Shot While BW was up, but didn't get a proc since it didn't deal damage in time.

- - - Updated - - -


It does. I tested it my self. You can easily test it too. Standing at Max range vs Melee range, Ignoring DB to ensure no outside factors, its 1-2 more procs. That is small, but its there.

Just because it's faster to proc doesn't mean you actually get more procs - besides fitting another in at the last second to get the reset. That'll give you 1 more reset, and it doesn't exactly happen often if you play properly (which entails casting Bestial Wrath as late as possible before you hit KC).

It's not possible to focus cap within a global after casting Cobra. Literally mathematically impossible. With no Haste, you generate 20 focus per second with Aspect of the Wild up. The GCD is 1.5 seconds, so you'll generate 30 focus while Cobra costs 40.

This is from popping AoTW + BW, KC, and then starting the resets. I got 5 resets with 1 of the KC's being the initial one.



5 Cobra Shots, for the 5 resets:


That's at absolute max range.Standing inside the dummy, I also get 5 resets with 1 initial. The final reset KC lands like 0.5s before BW expires in both cases.






You don't just magically gain 1-2 procs, it doesn't make even make a bit of sense. At certain Haste levels you might rarely get one additional proc if you stand close to the boss for the very end of the cycle, but even that is pretty rare.

[sourplumps]

Has there been any word from Blizzard about fixing fan interrupting channeled casts ?

[Sremmos]

So I feel like this is a dumb question but am I not delaying barrage and Windfury at all once they are off CD?
Or should I use the full vulnerable window before using those?

[leogeran]

question; I'mMM, and I've put in 3 traits in Quick Shots before I went the shortest way to the 2 golden traits. (Thought I knew the guide, guess I was wrong there).
For my next trait I need 40k AF power. I'm 19 points in.
I need 3 in Windrunners Guidance and then 1 one Legacy of the Windrunners to have the first 2 golden traits.
I'm not sure if I should reset the traits, so I need 1 more for the Golden Trait, or continue the path I'm in at the moment. The 30secs of Trueshot isn't that bad..

Any thoughts?

[Shuji V2]

Hey guys, currently I'm wearing the full order hall set with all pieces upgraded to the highest item lvl possible, but the main question is when should I start replacing those pieces? I'm also quite curious to know how valuable the 2k haste proc is (the +500 agi kinda speaks for itself). I also have 4 pieces I can replace (+35ilvl total) so I am wondering about the breaking point for when to start replacing. Thanks!

[Styx]

Hey guys, currently I'm wearing the full order hall set with all pieces upgraded to the highest item lvl possible, but the main question is when should I start replacing those pieces? I'm also quite curious to know how valuable the 2k haste proc is (the +500 agi kinda speaks for itself). I also have 4 pieces I can replace (+35ilvl total) so I am wondering about the breaking point for when to start replacing. Thanks!

you should never have wasted resources on that set
replace with better stats, even if it's 5 ilvl lower

[Shuji V2]

you should never have wasted resources on that set
replace with better stats, even if it's 5 ilvl lower

Not sure how you can disregard the "free" +500 agility and 2k haste proc which doesn't seem to have a cool down. =/
Only the feet don't offer a single point in any of our main stats and the shoulders mostly have crit and a bit of mastery, but 4 out of 8 pieces have both main stats and an additional three offer at least 1 one of those main stats. So replacing them with lower ilvl will definitely hurt my DPS in the agility department alone so not sure how you can even remotely suggest something like that. Would be awesome if you could use proper arguments for saying so next time.

Anyone who does know though?

[Azortharion]

http://www.checkmywow.com/

This website is great for log evaluation, by the way.

You'll generally want ~90-95% cast efficiency as a general statement, but more than anything you're looking for the more specific metrics like Aimed Shot casts under Vulnerable and whatnot, and especially getting out all your possible Sidewinders and Marked Shots.

http://www.checkmywow.com/reports/ZJ...0/14?tab=basic

Here's my Ursoc HC from a reclear, it's not perfect but it's a decent example of what is possible on a pure single target fight (albeit with light movement).

[Smog]

http://www.checkmywow.com/

Can you expand on the "Marking Targets Proc Usage" a bit, Azor? It says you missed one, which seems unlikely, and it says I've missed several on many of my best kills that are in the upper 95th+ percentile.

How does it count a "wasted" Marking Targets proc? It seems like it's counting when it procs on top of itself? Would there be any scenario where this would count a wasted proc even though no misplay occurred?

[Azortharion]

If you get a proc and don't spend it before you get another proc, that's a wasted Marking Targets proc usage. Can happen if you get (un)lucky. I'd say it's usually a misplay, but not always. Like if you get almost back-to-back procs which is super rare, it's not a misplay.

[Smog]

If you get a proc and don't spend it before you get another proc, that's a wasted Marking Targets proc usage. Can happen if you get (un)lucky. I'd say it's usually a misplay, but not always. Like if you get almost back-to-back procs which is super rare, it's not a misplay.

I feel like I very often sit on a Marking Targets proc for 2-3 globals. The average is roughly, what, 4 globals between SW assuming no Barrage/WB? Obviously you don't want to false start and cut short a cycle of the SW>AiS>MS>AiS window, so I'm unsure how to get around this (semi) misplay.

I have fairly high haste at 23%, which is contributing no doubt, but I average about 3 wasted procs per fight. I'm just not sure how to get around that without cutting the Vulnerable DPS cycle short, which almost certainly would actually be a DPS loss.

The only thing I can think is that I occasionally, maybe once or twice a fight, delay SW to Barrage outside of a Vuln window, which means I'm sitting on a Marking Targets proc for ~2 globals while it channels. I know from what you've said we should avoid Barraging in Vulnerable, but I'm unsure what else I could tweak in my playstyle to cause fewer "wasted" procs.

- - - Updated - - -

So looking at it closer and analyzing the logs and timestamps, it looks like what it's doing is just counting the number of Marking Targets procs and comparing it to the number of Sidewinders cast that did and did not apply Hunter's Mark.

We occasionally have to drop a non-Marking Targets SW, and as double procs of Marking Targets cannot be adjusted or moved to line up with SWs casted to avoid capping, I'm not sure that's an entirely valuable metric from that tool. It gives a great baseline, and I really like the Cast Efficiency, Damage Dealt While Vulnerable, and Resources sections, but the Marking Targets Proc Usage is really basic in its analysis and not properly assessing what's happening in the fight (through checking timestamps, SW charges, etc).

It's just a fact of the spec that occasionally you'll get a double proc of Marking Targets, and occasionally you have to cast SW without Marking Targets, and there's no real way to make those two things line up 100% of the time. I think that's pretty much the entirety of the RNG nature of MM right now.

edit: Should probably note that I'm not at all claiming I don't have room to improve. I think everyone does. And I think that refinement and mastery of the spec reduces some of the apparent RNG through clean play. All I'm saying is that specific metric from that tool cannot really be taken at face value, but instead gives you a starting point that you would need to follow up with yourself through careful analysis of the logs.

[Mavick]

Has there been any word from Blizzard about fixing fan interrupting channeled casts ?

This has been fixed since Wednesday. Tuesday night I had issues all evening with it, Wed night on, not once.