[Feral] Legion Discussion

[-aiko-]

Aren't these pure ST sims though? I'd say there are definitely options for multi target fights other than LI/SR/JW/BT.

You have a few options, like going Blood Scent or Soul of the Forest. In fact I'm using both of those talents currently for mythic+ dungeons as there's no point keeping up SR for trash and the extra CP generation gets more rips out. So far it's helped a little, but I can't see any situation where I'd want to go drop Jagged Wounds or Bloodtalons.

I think the problem is that we have simply too much damage worked into our bleeds with no way to change that. This really hurts us overall as we have no means to get around the ramp up time required to set up the bleeds. Brutal Slash gives us a little burst aoe potential but the cooldown is on the charges is...brutal *ba dum tss*.

[Deleted]

Killed Mythic Nythendra today went really well - my POV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8wjatFdgBY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3XDXb8yTrA - Mythic Elerethe Renferal

[teddabear]

You have a few options, like going Blood Scent or Soul of the Forest. In fact I'm using both of those talents currently for mythic+ dungeons as there's no point keeping up SR for trash and the extra CP generation gets more rips out. So far it's helped a little, but I can't see any situation where I'd want to go drop Jagged Wounds or Bloodtalons.

I think the problem is that we have simply too much damage worked into our bleeds with no way to change that. This really hurts us overall as we have no means to get around the ramp up time required to set up the bleeds. Brutal Slash gives us a little burst aoe potential but the cooldown is on the charges is...brutal *ba dum tss*.

A large decrease to BT and SR coupled with a 100% increase to FB and a decrease of BRS cooldown to 6 seconds would come very close to fixing the problem.

[Yvaelle]

Hey all, I'm not a feral, but I have a guildie I'm inquiring on behalf of - she can hit about ~160k on a target dummy, but is only around ~120k during boss fights. AMR suggests she could hit ~260k, which is in line with what a feral of her gear should probably cap out at (to my understanding).

Here is her AMR report

I don't have a log with her in it, but I'll record tonight and update afterward.

Any ideas though why there is such a massive discrepancy? I tried quickly studying up on Feral and helping her figure out the gap, but I couldn't see it. Most of the tricks from what I can tell she seems to have down:

- she has ~100% uptime on Rip+Rake
- she keeps Savage Roar up
- she saves Bloodtalons for her Rip
- she's been struggling a bit with Tiger's Fury / Berserk management, so I'm sure that's contributing a little bit
- she isn't letting her energy cap out, but she's pretty competent at floating for burst phases (rogue in past expansions, so energy is nothing new to her)

The gap between 160k on a dummy and 120k in a fight is clearly just the combination of fight mechanics + stress of learning new fights, so I think she'll resolve that with just practice, what concerns me is the seeming 100k she's missing between 160k on a dummy, and 260k on AMR: how could she be missing something so massive?

Also, if anyone is willing to work directly with her in-game, let me know and I'll give you her bnet info so you cats can talk shop with people who have actually pushed the same buttons before! (I don't know what I'm doing)

[Phtes]

Hey all, I'm not a feral, but I have a guildie I'm inquiring on behalf of - she can hit about ~160k on a target dummy, but is only around ~120k during boss fights. AMR suggests she could hit ~260k, which is in line with what a feral of her gear should probably cap out at (to my understanding).

Here is her AMR report

I don't have a log with her in it, but I'll record tonight and update afterward.

Any ideas though why there is such a massive discrepancy? I tried quickly studying up on Feral and helping her figure out the gap, but I couldn't see it. Most of the tricks from what I can tell she seems to have down:

- she has ~100% uptime on Rip+Rake
- she keeps Savage Roar up
- she saves Bloodtalons for her Rip
- she's been struggling a bit with Tiger's Fury / Berserk management, so I'm sure that's contributing a little bit
- she isn't letting her energy cap out, but she's pretty competent at floating for burst phases (rogue in past expansions, so energy is nothing new to her)

The gap between 160k on a dummy and 120k in a fight is clearly just the combination of fight mechanics + stress of learning new fights, so I think she'll resolve that with just practice, what concerns me is the seeming 100k she's missing between 160k on a dummy, and 260k on AMR: how could she be missing something so massive?

Also, if anyone is willing to work directly with her in-game, let me know and I'll give you her bnet info so you cats can talk shop with people who have actually pushed the same buttons before! (I don't know what I'm doing)

I'd first suggest you post a warcraft log so we can really see what uptimes are.

First and most obvious thing? She messed up badly on the artifact and is missing the most important trait Ashamane's Bite which I believe is on the scale of ~40k dps.

That Swipe relic really needs to be replaced with rip or rake. And general itemization, thats a lot of haste and not much versatility which is just straight damage.

Again sims expect perfect performance, it can be much better judged with a warcraft log of a fight like nythendra or ursoc.

[-aiko-]

Something like 50% of Feral's damage is baked into Rip/Rake, so properly managing those dots is crucial to Feral DPS. It's possible that she isn't snapshotting properly and is overwriting stronger dots with weaker ones. If she struggles with Tiger's Fury that could account for a chunk of DPS loss, too, since energy capping or not refreshing dots with TF hurts, though not to the tune of 100k. If you are able to get some logs that would help a lot, but I will say that I wouldn't worry if she can't match AMR sims. If there's a difference of 100k there is definitely something wrong, but just as an example when I sim my character (with no pots/flasks/food) AMR says I should do 310k. I can only manage 280k on a dummy, though. I suppose that could be attributed to no heroism though /shrug

Point being that with so much going on, especially with snapshotting and being so resource starved, don't put too much weight into AMR. Feral is extremely punishing and when you work in boss mechanics it's really hard to play perfectly. I know that's not an answer to your question, but she shouldn't ever feel bummed out if AMR sims her at a point that she can't reach on a dummy. We'll try to help her narrow the gap though.

[Deleted]

Updated original post with - Mythic Elerethe Renferal - Feral POV

[Yvaelle]

@Phtes @-aiko-

Awesome thanks guys! I'll post some logs after our raid tonight if you don't mind taking a look.

And yea - I'm not at all worried that she should be hitting her AMR numbers, all sim numbers for Shadow right now are virtually impossible to hit just because of how hectic Surrender To Madness (spriest suicide talent) becomes after maintaining it for 90 seconds+ (yet that is when it matters most, because our damage skyrockets the longer we're in it). So like my Shadow sims say I should do 236k single target, I'm lucky if I hit 195k on Nyth/Ursoc, and that 40k gap is almost entirely attributable to dealing with half second GCDs and odd timers, where the slightest mistake or delay = sudden death.

Shadow is in a particularly weird spot right now, but sims have never been too reliable - but 100k gap told me something big was missing: the combination of no Ashamane's Bite (~40k) + difficulty with TF snapshotting likely explains most of what's missing

[Deleted]

But the sims also don't include Ashmane's bite or do they?

Shouldn't they sim the actual character + his traits/enchants etc.

[JIMM-]

Killed Mythic Nythendra today went really well - my POV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8wjatFdgBY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3XDXb8yTrA - Mythic Elerethe Renferal

hey man, nice vids , can u give a rough guideline what to do when all buffs/ debuffs are active and energy is about to cap ? im confused what i should do when i have a rip with BT + TF up and unsure about overwriting it with a new BT rip.

from the vid i see you just refresh ur stuff early to avoid energy capping n wasting combo points

[Deleted]

Hey! I am fairly new to feral, and wanted to ask, to which point is the Darkmoon Deck a good investment?

[Deleted]

hey man, nice vids , can u give a rough guideline what to do when all buffs/ debuffs are active and energy is about to cap ? im confused what i should do when i have a rip with BT + TF up and unsure about overwriting it with a new BT rip.

from the vid i see you just refresh ur stuff early to avoid energy capping n wasting combo points

Exactly what you said, I hate having to use FB it causes more issues then the damage it provides so I'll just pool as long as possible and then just refresh. Always making sure to refresh with BT at least though.


Mythic Ursoc goes down, RIP rank 1 no logs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY6fwT9dkhU

[teddabear]

Hey! I am fairly new to feral, and wanted to ask, to which point is the Darkmoon Deck a good investment?

Anytime before the next raid. It is a great trinket and you even get a nice sound of the deck shuffling as the buff changes. Plus it will probably be upgradable.

[-aiko-]

"boomie or feral?"
"Feral"
Your application has been declined.

[teddabear]

"boomie or feral?"
"Feral"
Your application has been declined.

Well Blizzard wanted to keep the tradition alive from Cataclysm, MoP and WoD.

[Lucrece]

"boomie or feral?"
"Feral"
Your application has been declined.

Which is retarded because feral as a spec is far more distinguished to boomkin, who's mediocre at both single target and aoe while feral may be mediocre at single target but a total boss melter.

And to be frank, my 860 ilv demonhunter is getting declined 24/7 as well despite being a godmode mythic+ class.

As usual, the best solution is to not pug, pugs are cancer. My 862 ilv vengeance demonhunter felt like wet toilet paper in a pug +8 vault of the warden. I then run it with my guild healer and suddenly I don't feel like I'm made of glass.

Had a 850 ret pally with only 3 normal mode EN bosses cleared call both me (tank) and the healer dumb and bad at using cooldowns in a pug. Pugs are cancer.

[-aiko-]

It wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't happening so frequently.



Noobooooddy waaaants meee :'( #whine

[Lucrece]

Nobody wants melee anyways unless it's a rogue, unfortunately.

Every damn melee got nerfed except rogues, who got a tickle instead.

It's just fire mage and mm hunter all day everyday.

[Treeba]

It wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't happening so frequently.



Noobooooddy waaaants meee :'( #whine

That's pretty much why I went bear this expansion. I knew I was going to spend a lot of time in mythic dungeons and despite feral being quite strong at killing bosses people wouldn't take them because 1. melee 2. aoe. I've played cat as a main spec since Wrath. I did CMs in both expansions as feral and it was the same situation. You need friends/guildies because most pugs aren't going to touch it.

I feel bad cause I usually make my own groups and I've definitely turned down ferals in favor of better aoe specs.

Nobody wants melee anyways unless it's a rogue, unfortunately.

Every damn melee got nerfed except rogues, who got a tickle instead.

It's just fire mage and mm hunter all day everyday.

Not entirely true. Enhancement, WW, and DH are still pretty popular. I haven't seen very many WWs around however.

[Wolfheart9]

A large decrease to BT and SR coupled with a 100% increase to FB and a decrease of BRS cooldown to 6 seconds would come very close to fixing the problem.

And in the meantime the PTR notes look like they're buffing BT.. gotta love it. (Though we'll see what the official notes are)