Veng still viable?

[Thelin]

If thats true then u had too much mastery to begin with.

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Try tanking +7 mythics and see the melee damage you take. Its BS.

I'm sure its a significant jump with the 2nd affix, but the mastery nerf wasn't even a huge deal if you weren't stacking it. Sure they could probably fix our mitigation a bit and I imagine once more data comes out more changes will occur, its still only a month in.

[Meanshield]

I'm sure its a significant jump with the 2nd affix, but the mastery nerf wasn't even a huge deal if you weren't stacking it. Sure they could probably fix our mitigation a bit and I imagine once more data comes out more changes will occur, its still only a month in.

I didnt favour Mastery alot before, but I cant get Versatility to 50%, so i'm annoyed at how shit we are against heavy physical.

[Thelin]

I didnt favour Mastery alot before, but I cant get Versatility to 50%, so i'm annoyed at how shit we are against heavy physical.

Yeah that's my issue, every piece of gear is crit/mastery or haste/mastery. I'm having trouble getting pieces that are haste/versa. I'm very heavy crit/mastery ATM. Even a lot of the trinkets are all base crit which gets annoying.

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The agonizing flames nerf is also somewhat annoying as it makes charred warblades much less appealing. If anything they should have left that alone. If they're going to do that they should have at least bumped up sigil viability.

[Svisalith]

My damage mitigation on DS went from 50% to 39%, so really, i couldn't care less, I'll still be tanking for my guild.

You're taking 1.22x more damage and you don't care?

[sosleapy]

What pissed me off is they bitch aboutus having high mastery then create gear that has a our best stats at interest then. Raid gear is shit for us get better gear from this first tier out of mythics for our stat priority. I was never stacking mastery I was actually trying to get away from it but blizzard didn't make shit for gear for us. We was middle of the pack tanks but bow we are below the bottom of the barrel for most people

[ethanfel]

It honestly wasn't a nerf, it was a restructuring. Mastery does not scale as well as before, but baseline reduction got doubled.

The reason is that early gearing Veng was poor, but mythic raiding and mythic +6 and up extreme geared people could mastery whore their way into enormous %dmg reduction, being overpowered.

its changed now so that its smoother earlier and later

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compared to

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If you will, its linear now rather than exponential growth.

Lol it was a huge nerf for any mastery oriented DH (like me), i wasn't even full mastery, just gearing mastery/crit/versa. I lost 12% on my spike... and i feel definitively weaker. I wouldn't complain if the nerf didn't made me loose a considerable amount of time (farming peerless gear and obliterum), time i'm lacking because of life.

[sosleapy]

You Would Have Thought They Learned With Leather tanks with brm but guess they didn't. I honestly don't want to sit here waiting 4 to 5 months for them to pull their head out of their ass because we all know that is how long it will take for them to be like oh shit we fucked them. Even doing a mythic +2 omg my healer was hating me and I did nothing out if the norm I was just taking that more damage

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What you talking about smoother? I am more spikier now than I ever was lol

[hawtlol]

857 Vengeance main who didn't stack mastery pre-nerf and I really haven't felt a difference in my survivablity. 6/7H experienced as the main tank.

[Ehrgein]

If your healer gets to the point of hating you in a plus 2 you (or your healer) might be doing something wrong.

Yes, we take more damage, but is not THAT noticeable as you make it look. Specially in something as trivial as mythic 2.

[sosleapy]

If your healer gets to the point of hating you in a plus 2 you (or your healer) might be doing something wrong.

Yes, we take more damage, but is not THAT noticeable as you make it look. Specially in something as trivial as mythic 2.

i am way more spikey than before is my point and i am saving CD for stuff that is important.

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857 Vengeance main who didn't stack mastery pre-nerf and I really haven't felt a difference in my survivablity. 6/7H experienced as the main tank.

not all of are blessed by rngesus i cant get crap for gear to drop. i havent gotten a descent piece of gear in 2 weeks raid or mythics

[Maletalana]

Lol it was a huge nerf for any mastery oriented DH (like me), i wasn't even full mastery, just gearing mastery/crit/versa. I lost 12% on my spike... and i feel definitively weaker. I wouldn't complain if the nerf didn't made me loose a considerable amount of time (farming peerless gear and obliterum), time i'm lacking because of life.

Yeah that's a good point, and I do hate being the target of a nerf. Havoc seemed to be simply overpowered, so nerf was surprising at all. As a havoc, my dps is largely the same, and compared to other classes im still a contender for top spot, its just a closer race now.

People get upset that others might beat them on the meters, but lose sight of the fact that whats really important is whether the boss does down or not.

That being said I did not feel veng needed a nerf, and my graphs (if they can be called that) were meant to help show how the nerf was more of a change than a hard nerf. it did ultimately result in lower capabilities though, so its a nerf in the end. Dunno why Veng took a hit, they weren't unanimously the kings of tanking *cough Prot War cough*, so not sure why they got hit.

Sorry to hear you lost out on a mastery build because of it.

I have wanted to gear a mastery Havoc build, focusing on massive movespeed increases. I got my mastery to top 30% in pre patch and I SPED across the map.

Too bad the stat weights for mastery are so poor compared to the others.

I believe its something like
Mastery -- 0.70
Crit ------- 0.79

[Deleted]

viable? Sure. Competitive? Hell no.

[Flaryon]

I've been steadily losing passion to the point where I want to give up on my Vengeance. My entire goal for legion was pushing mythic + on it, and theres just no reason i can think of for my guild to take me in the groups over the other tanks. We NEED other's to constantly chain cc for us or we melt, especially at 30% with raging, where 1) most other classes don't melt and 2) can do the CC them selves.

I just take so much constant spikes that healers have to focus me, where our druid can go balance affinity with a warr or bear tank and help do a lot more damage

[Jazzhands]

I never stacked mastery for damage reduction I saw the potential of mastery and knew a Nerf was coming. Being able to have a near 100% up time on 50%+ phys damage reduction and 20% parry was almost Ignore pain levels of broken. I lost all of like, 1% reduction on DS, and since I never used feed the demon it only has 40%ish uptime, so I lost practically nothing, and after the warrior nerfs all my healers want me to tank M+ over our warrior, who is equal to me in terms of gear and skill.

[Burnick]

Ever since this nerf, I literally have such a hard time finding groups, even for mythic dungeons... Like, Common. I'll que up and be declined constantly.
They have pretty much killed Vengeance demon hunter at this point. We need a serious survival buff.
They nerfed our survivability with the 10% baseline nerf to all tanks, then they nerf us again with our mastery... Man, If they nerf us again they might as well just remove the class from the game. We need a desperate buff. We are nothing compared to the other 4 tanks.

This all being said, I still love DH Veng, And will continue to play it no matter what.

[Snackwiches]

Always log up your numbers and put your issues on their forums. They do seem to actually be taking constructive feedback a little more seriously this time.

They promised to quit the bullshit with wanton nerfing so if the adjustments went too far then hold them to their bullshit. They won't listen to you unless you bring data though and all the data I've seen puts in Veng in a decent spot, notably ahead of Brewmaster and Blood and nearly par with Guardian and Paladin. Not as good as Warrior but fucking nothing is even close to as good as Warrior currently.

[vulena]

Now, Feed the Demon is shit, atleast for me. I need to use Fracture to get the guaranteed 2 Lesser Fragments for more Soul Barrier.

Sorry, i mixed up Soul Reding and Feed the Demon. Nvm.

80 total Pain for an SB that is barely beefed up by two extra soul shards? If you need that, your normal runs must be brutal.

[JoshuaNLG]

You're taking 1.22x more damage and you don't care?

Nope, because it hasn't affected my ability to tank anything that i wasn't already tanking.

I've not noticed any difference in the damage I'm taking, stacking mastery was stupidly strong, anyone that can't see that is under the false impression that they were just a good tank, having a 50% reduction on all physical damage for upwards of 18 seconds straight while also having a selfheal mechanic was stupidly strong.

I'm still able to tank Mythic+7's after the nerf, so like i said, it hasn't affected my ability to tank at all.

I'm not saying Vengeance is the be all of tanks, they're certainly not, but they're not incapable either, if you're in a world 1st race, yeah i can see how this might put a damper on your day, but let's be honest, that's an incredibly small minority of the playerbase, and to people claiming they've been declined groups because they're a DH, i haven't encountered that once yet, but i have a suggestion.. start your own group.


Edit: Browse every class forum that has a tanking spec, every single one thinks that their tanking spec is "bottom of the barrel", a lot of players just have no idea how strong their class is before a nerf hits, and then as soon as they see that "reduced potency of x" on the patch notes, they scream.

[Zyky]

If you love your DH, stick with him. Stop rerolling classes because of a change that they might correct again in some other way.

Maybe the class you're rerolling is going to get nerfed into the ground aswell, do you know?

"Stick with the spec/class that'll make it so your guild will replace you"

[Tech614]

"Stick with the spec/class that'll make it so your guild will replace you"

Nobody is going to replace you if you're playing properly outside of top 100 bleeding egde guilds, and those guilds would have never taken you as a Vegeance main tank anyways and you already would have been an alternate.