Democratic Election 2016 - Hillary Clinton Megathread [OFFICIAL]

[Kujako]

I just didn't think the other 9.6% mattered but if it does to you then 1,697,091.37 other.

Nope, sorry. The argument is that whites make up the majority of the working poor. You don't get to count the entire US populace in that calculation. Again, every figure I can find puts "whites" at a plurality of ~45%. If you have an alternative data source, please provide it.

[Blur4stuff]

Cops shooting people happens, but it's almost nonexistent. A tiny number of people have been shot by police in the past few decades.

not remotely comparable. voter fraud isn't a problem. a handful of people out of millions committing voter fraud is not equal to murder.

even if voter fraud was a serious problem, that's not what Republicans care about. they want to reduce the number of votes dems get. if you pretend otherwise then it's clear you can't participate in a honest discussion.

[zenkai]

Nope, sorry. The argument is that whites make up the majority of the working poor. You don't get to count the entire US populace in that calculation. Again, every figure I can find puts "whites" at a plurality of ~45%. If you have an alternative data source, please provide it.

No the argument is by shear number there are more poor white people, it only makes sense, since white people are the majority of the population...

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not remotely comparable. voter fraud isn't a problem. a handful of people out of millions committing voter fraud is not equal to murder.

even if voter fraud was a serious problem, that's not what Republicans care about. they want to reduce the number of votes dems get. if you pretend otherwise then it's clear you can't participate in a honest discussion.

It is comparable, you just can't logic.

[Edge-]

It is comparable, you just can't logic.

Right now, you are literally the only person in the thread that thinks that is the case.

[Endus]

not remotely comparable. voter fraud isn't a problem. a handful of people out of millions committing voter fraud is not equal to murder.

even if voter fraud was a serious problem, that's not what Republicans care about. they want to reduce the number of votes dems get. if you pretend otherwise then it's clear you can't participate in a honest discussion.

Hell, there's the way North Carolina went about setting theirs up (now shut down, because of how obviously discriminatory it was); https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-black-voters/

They literally conducted studies to figure out which ID African-Americans were less likely to have, and then made those specific IDs the ones you needed to vote. It was not remotely accidental, it was the specific intent of the law.

[zenkai]

Right now, you are literally the only person in the thread that thinks that is the case.

And your point is?

[Edge-]

And your point is?

The implication being that the reason you're the only person that believes this is the case is because you're making a completely horse shit comparison.

[zenkai]

Hell, there's the way North Carolina went about setting theirs up (now shut down, because of how obviously discriminatory it was); https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-black-voters/

They literally conducted studies to figure out which ID African-Americans were less likely to have, and then made those specific IDs the ones you needed to vote. It was not remotely accidental, it was the specific intent of the law.

If you're out to stop poor voters, then you're out to stop white voters since by number alone there are more white people than minorities.

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The implication being that the reason you're the only person that believes this is the case is because you're making a completely horse shit comparison.

Out of about 5 people replying to me in this thread, all which are Democrats, none agree with me? Holy shit I must be wrong.

[Kujako]

If you're out to stop poor voters, then you're out to stop white voters since by number alone there are more white people than minorities.

~50% of the populace is male, therefore roughly half the pregnant people are men! is more or less the logic you're using. Demographics for the populace as a whole, is not the same as that of "poor voters".

[LaserSharkDFB]

If you're out to stop poor voters, then you're out to stop white voters since by number alone there are more white people than minorities.

Please include in your equations the fact that a very wide wealth gap exists in this country with minorities, for the large part, at the bottom end.

[Endus]

If you're out to stop poor voters, then you're out to stop white voters since by number alone there are more white people than minorities.

Maybe try reading sources, first?

They weren't trying to stop poor voters. They were trying to stop black voters. The studies were about race demographics, not socioeconomics. They made sure to figure out which IDs black people were less likely to have compared to other groups, so they could pick the ones that would impact that community's ability to vote to the greatest degree.

[Venant]

Maybe try reading sources, first?

They weren't trying to stop poor voters. They were trying to stop black voters. The studies were about race demographics, not socioeconomics. They made sure to figure out which IDs black people were less likely to have compared to other groups, so they could pick the ones that would impact that community's ability to vote to the greatest degree.

Speaking of racial and socioeconomic demographics



Do you think it is justified for an angry mob to chase a man down and rough him up for wearing a Trump hat?

[I Push Buttons]

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/table/PST045215/00

2015 Estimates 321,418,820 people in America

77.1% are estimated white
13.3% are black

According to your own Chart 5.5% of whites are poor and 11.7% of Blacks are poor that means

13,612,087.03 poor people are white
2,351,178.67 poor people are black

Damn those Republicans for trying to suppress the poor white voters!

1. The 77.1% figure includes Hispanics/Latinos. The "white alone, not Hispanic or Latino" category is 61.6% of the population.

2. Who taught you math? Where did you get 2.35 million for blacks? 13.3% of 321.4 million is ~42.7 million, 11.7% of 42.7 million is ~5 million...?

Lets go the rest of the way though:
White (non-Hispanic/Latino) are 61.6% of the population, according to the chart 5.5% of them are working poor.
Blacks are 13.3%, 11.7% working poor.
Hispanics are 17.6%, 11.7% working poor.
Asians are 5.6%, 4.3% working poor.

So if the population is ~321 million.
Whites: ~10,875,000 working poor.
Blacks: ~4,995,000 working poor.
Hispanics: ~6,610,000 working poor.
Asians: ~773,000 working poor.

Making whites 46.7% of working poor...

So, again I ask, who taught you math?

[Felya]

Out of about 5 people replying to me in this thread, all which are Democrats, none agree with me? Holy shit I must be wrong.

I am willing to bet that niether person responding to you, is actually registered to a party. If you include Ednus, then he isn't even from US. This is your bias coming through, when there was a very simple response to what he said. I hope this helps you hide your bias in the future:

Appeals to popularity, do not change facts.

I was going to just do it for you, but your actual reply was so bad, I'm not going to help you like that.

[Endus]

Speaking of racial and socioeconomic demographics

Do you think it is justified for an angry mob to chase a man down and rough him up for wearing a Trump hat?

Why would I? Dig back through my 38,000 posts here and find me someplace I've advocated for senseless violence. This has nothing at all to do with what I was talking about.

[Venant]

Why would I? Dig back through my 38,000 posts here and find me someplace I've advocated for senseless violence. This has nothing at all to do with what I was talking about.

At what point do you condone violence, when it is used in defense of the interests of a group of people? If you are an illegal immigrant, Trumps proposals might endanger your life if it results in you being deported, so is it unreasonable for these people to use violence to discourage Trump from being elected? If a black person is fearful that a police officer is about to shoot him unjustly, doesn't he have the right to shoot the police officer first? Shouldn't the Palestinians be allowed to defend themselves against being unjustly bombed by the Israeli military?

These are all examples of oppressed people, should these people not all have the right to self defense?

[Endus]

At what point do you condone violence, when it is used in defense of the interests of a group of people?

Whatever makes you think I would?

If you are an illegal immigrant, Trumps proposals might endanger your life if it results in you being deported, so is it unreasonable for these people to use violence to discourage Trump from being elected? If a black person is fearful that a police officer is about to shoot him unjustly, doesn't he have the right to shoot the police officer first? Shouldn't the Palestinians be allowed to defend themselves against being unjustly bombed by the Israeli military?

These are all examples of oppressed people, should these people not all have the right to self defense?

Self defense is not "defending the interests of a group of people". You keep shifting goalposts, because your argument is nonsensical.

[mvaliz]

Do you think it is justified for an angry mob to chase a man down and rough him up for wearing a Trump hat?

Don't give me this bullshit that it was just because of "his hat". You don't know that at all.

When he said "I'm simply a Donald J Trump supporter, wishing to peacefully demonstrate" to the police... - nope, not buying it. Being that the video was clearly edited so we DIDN'T see how he was "peacefully demonstrating" - but instead started IMMEDIATELY with a horde of people chasing him... I want to see what he said/did prior to get an entire mob to chase him like that. Right now, it looks like a deliberate edit to make anti-trump supporters look bad. You don't get targeted by a mob like that and instantly chased down... some time/argument clearly went down to get a crowd like that.

Does he deserve to be knocked for whatever it is? Depends... did he punch somebody before, and we didn't see it? One thing I WILL say, is that there are clearly anti-trump supporters also PROTECTING him from getting hurt as well.

EDIT: Missplaced the quote marks

[DeadmanWalking]

Speaking of racial and socioeconomic demographics



Do you think it is justified for an angry mob to chase a man down and rough him up for wearing a Trump hat?

Hey look, another person with weak discussion skills who has to link something that has nothing to do with what is being discussed because they can't handle what is being said.
It is the equivalent of pointing and screaming SQUIRREL! It is obvious and pathetic, stop trying to derail the discussion.

Nobody is as dumb as you imagine us to be.

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Don't give me this bullshit that it was just because of "his hat". You don't know that at all.

When he said "I'm simply a Donald J Trump supporter, wishing to peacefully demonstrate to the police..." - nope, not buying it. Being that the video was clearly edited so we DIDN'T see how he was "peacefully demonstrating" - but instead started IMMEDIATELY with a horde of people chasing him... I want to see what he said/did prior to get an entire mob to chase him like that. Right now, it looks like a deliberate edit to make anti-trump supporters look bad. You don't get targeted by a mob like that and instantly chased down... some time/argument clearly went down to get a crowd like that.

Does he deserve to be knocked for whatever it is? Depends... did he punch somebody before, and we didn't see it? One thing I WILL say, is that there are clearly anti-trump supporters also PROTECTING him from getting hurt as well.

You mean edited like this bullshit story? http://www.snopes.com/injured-trump-supporter/

[Breccia]

Damn those Republicans for trying to suppress the poor white voters!

Okay. I'm going to do this once, and that might be more than you deserve.

African Americans are overrepresented in the poor. So are Hispanics. Something that makes it harder for the poor to vote, regardless of the fact that it might take out a higher number of whites, takes out a higher percent of blacks and Hispanics, making the remaining white vote more proportionally effective.

I'll use small numbers so the nuance isn't lost.

A bag contains 120 red and 30 blue candies. As you can see, the bag is 80% red.

20 red and 10 blue are placed into a separate bowl. This is not proportionate with the rest of the bag.

From that bowl, a handful are removed and thrown away. Let's say 10 and 5. These represent the people so poor they cannot afford ID.

The bowl is dumped back into the bag. Now there are 110 red and 25 blue. The bag is now 81.5% red.

Even though more red candies were removed from the bag, the red proportion still went up. Because the handful was taken from a source that was disproportionately high blue, not from an even source.

Taking the above numbers and replacing them with the correct number of white/black+Hispanic voters, and the correct number of white/black+Hispanic poor into "the bowl" will have the same effect: a net increase in the percent of white votes, even if the number of white votes dropped by more. The whites can afford to take the hit -- they started with more. The black/Hispanic cannot.

Check out those candy proportions I used above. That's actually pretty representative of the country, basically. I didn't chose them on whim.

Now, you might be thinking "a change of 1.5%, that's not so bad". well,

a) look at Florida, Ohio, North Carolina. These battleground states are about 1.5% off, each. So this would actually be quite an effective tactic right now.
b) there is no such thing as "that's not so bad'" when talking about a system that prevents people from voting, a right, and either has a greater effect on, or was chosen because of, one race over another.

And my favorite part is: if you attempt to pick apart my analogy, I'll know you understood it, and you'll acknowledge your "more white people are poor lol" argument is invalid.

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2. Who taught you math?

See, that's why I used small numbers and brightly colored candy for my example. I'm not convinced anyone has, or at least, he didn't seem to understand it.