[Ret Paladin] Stat Weights.

[snackfeat]

Except Zeal currently sims higher single target than TFoJ for my gear so its not always stupid shit. The 30% haste rule is not a thing

There is literally no way that Zeal can sim higher than TFoJ on single target. CS/Zeal does such a small part of your overall dps, the reason you take TFoJ is to get more holy power and thus more TV.

The 30% haste rule is a thing, unless you are using Zeal, but then you have already fucked up. Are you using ES and DP too or some shit?

[ThePants999]

Then you are probably doing some stupid shit, like using Zeal.

Thanks for that. No, I'm not. FV, TFoJ, Crusade.

The 30% haste rule is a thing

Funny that even Sol doesn't go for it then.

CS/Zeal does such a small part of your overall dps, the reason you take TFoJ is to get more holy power and thus more TV.

While TFoJ is indeed the best choice, "such a small part of your overall DPS" is an odd way to describe our second-highest source of damage after TV.

[snackfeat]

Thanks for that. No, I'm not. FV, TFoJ, Crusade.


Funny that even Sol doesn't go for it then.


While TFoJ is indeed the best choice, "such a small part of your overall DPS" is an odd way to describe our second-highest source of damage after TV.

CS is about 13% while TV is 40%+. More CS = more HP = more TV.

Another thing is that when you get the legendary cloak, the haste becomes even more important. At 28.5% haste, it's still my highest value stat because of the cloak.

[omgacow]

There is literally no way that Zeal can sim higher than TFoJ on single target. CS/Zeal does such a small part of your overall dps, the reason you take TFoJ is to get more holy power and thus more TV.

The 30% haste rule is a thing, unless you are using Zeal, but then you have already fucked up. Are you using ES and DP too or some shit?

Wow you seem to think you know everything there is to know about ret paladins right now. Sorry dude, but you are flat out wrong. I am not using ES or DP because those talents are dogshit. With crusade and FV, Zeal is currently giving my character a 2k DPS increase single target. CS/Zeal are not a small part of our dps either. You really should stop spreading this all this false information.

[snackfeat]

Wow you seem to think you know everything there is to know about ret paladins right now. Sorry dude, but you are flat out wrong. I am not using ES or DP because those talents are dogshit. With crusade and FV, Zeal is currently giving my character a 2k DPS increase single target. CS/Zeal are not a small part of our dps either. You really should stop spreading this all this false information.

See my post above.

Even if you for some reason wanna use Zeal and ignore the 30% haste, you are just making sure that the legendary cloak won't do shit for you whenever you do get it.

Zeal is probably much higher on your overall damage, because you are doing so much less TV with that shit.

[omgacow]

See my post above.

Even if you for some reason wanna use Zeal and ignore the 30% haste, you are just making sure that the legendary cloak won't do shit for you whenever you do get it.

Zeal is probably much higher on your overall damage, because you are doing so much less TV with that shit.

Why does it matter how much % of my damage is TV. The point is that my character has higher dps single target right now with zeal. Why would I gem and enchant for if I magically were to get the legendary cloak? That argument makes no sense. All I'm trying to point out is that paladin stats are in a weird place right now, and everyone will sim differently. Telling people to universally go for 30% haste is not giving them the right information, same with zeal/TFoJ.

[snackfeat]

Why does it matter how much % of my damage is TV. The point is that my character has higher dps single target right now with zeal. Why would I gem and enchant for if I magically were to get the legendary cloak? That argument makes no sense. All I'm trying to point out is that paladin stats are in a weird place right now, and everyone will sim differently. Telling people to universally go for 30% haste is not giving them the right information, same with zeal/TFoJ.

What don't you understand? Zeal is ahead for you because you have shit haste, and because you are then using Zeal you are not going to get more haste because you see it as a worthless stat. So you will never reach amount of haste where TFoJ pulls ahead and you will continue to have shit scaling with a shit talent.

[Deleted]

Then you are probably doing some stupid shit, like using Zeal.

What don't you understand? Zeal is ahead for you because you have shit haste, and because you are then using Zeal you are not going to get more haste because you see it as a worthless stat. So you will never reach amount of haste where TFoJ pulls ahead and you will continue to have shit scaling with a shit talent.

Can you stop posting shit? You spam it and act like you know it all and are high almighty when in fact you have no idea what you are talking about.
Im at 28% haste(22% crit, 26% mastery), using zeal (as its best option and sims quite above TFOJ) and for me haste is even above strength...
Like... quite a bit above! 8.55 for haste and 7.95 for strength

[ThePants999]

Another thing is that when you get the legendary cloak, the haste becomes even more important. At 28.5% haste, it's still my highest value stat because of the cloak.

Heh, I like that "when". I would love to think that getting the cloak in the near future is a foregone conclusion, but with no sign of a legendary so far, and a 1 in 8 chance of it being the right one when I finally get one, I'm not going to stack what currently sims as a poor stat for me just in case :-)

[carl812]

So my simcraft is suggesting that Versatility is my best secondary stat. Weights look like this:

Str 6.82
Ap 6.53
Vers 5.56
Crit 5.1
haste 4.53
master 4.45

Is that possible? Seems really weird, and if it is actually possible then ask mr robot is giving me bad info on which gear to wear. Reason I bring this up is because I have a master/vers necklace at 860 ilevel and a crit/haste neck at 835 ilvl and mr robot says I should be wearing the 835 neck. Am I taking crazy pills here?

[Deleted]

Quite funny to imagine the cataclysm of such threads when zeal will be getting a buff and ilvl (and secondary stats) inflation comes in.

Other than that make sure u got enough haste to generate as much hopo as possible having the least downtime on rotation and the least spells outside of cd waiting. After that u can go for crit and possibly mastery depending on the type of encounter. Not sure how versa still sims that high but most probably its because the class design is broken and the hopo finishers are not as rewarding as they should be.

[dnicks17]

I don't even understand anymore.

I've been simming a slew of gear sets ranging from 16% haste to 26%(highest I can get right now) and the 16% sims the highest by a decent chunk. That's with testing every Zeal/TFoJ and VB/BoW combination too.

Seems nonsensical to use that little haste, so I've been using a 30% crit, 23% haste, 15% mast, 4% vers set up since that's the highest haste before the dps drops off in sims.

[Deleted]

rotation getz widescreen epilepsy @55% haste - 8pc uniform 2pc neck/trinket 26%haste base ilvl848 > ilvl 859!

u rlly want that mastery kickin at least 35% opt 40% with that haste ST burst 750k AoE 2m+. hf gl

btw: fuck versa

[Haram]

rotation getz widescreen epilepsy @55% haste - 8pc uniform 2pc neck/trinket 26%haste base ilvl848 > ilvl 859!

u rlly want that mastery kickin at least 35% opt 40% with that haste ST burst 750k AoE 2m+. hf gl

btw: fuck versa

With 0 actual evidence to back up your claim.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't even understand anymore.

I've been simming a slew of gear sets ranging from 16% haste to 26%(highest I can get right now) and the 16% sims the highest by a decent chunk. That's with testing every Zeal/TFoJ and VB/BoW combination too.

Seems nonsensical to use that little haste, so I've been using a 30% crit, 23% haste, 15% mast, 4% vers set up since that's the highest haste before the dps drops off in sims.

This could be based on the trinkets you have. What trinkets are you using? Are you using Crusade as the last talent tier as well? Also if at 26% haste you are sacrificing a lot of Versatility, then that could heavily change your Sim numbers and priorities. At low Vers levels (mine is also around the 4% mark), Vers will become much more valuable. At least this is what I have noticed.

[Deleted]

With 0 actual evidence to back up your claim.

sim it 4 urself, i prefer to pole-dance Details (/recount). singular intention was to hint my fellow rets. even if u cant sim, we r drowned in gear (YEAH!), easy live-test...

[ThePants999]

FWIW, I have almost zero versatility, and versatility sims the highest for me. Plotting, that remains true up to +2500.

[Teryss]

Currently sitting at
Haste - 25%
Crit - 22.5%
Vers - 10%
Mastery - 3%

Simcraft shows haste as my lowest stat weight right now, find that kind of interesting. My current weights are...
Str 7.30 > Vers 6.08 > Crit 6.04 > Mastery 5.76 > Haste 5.23

Pretty even spread, I had more haste but I ended up droppping some for more crit and vers and my simdps went up. Is 30% haste really that big of a deal and why does it sim so low if it is?

[Haram]

Currently sitting at
Haste - 25%
Crit - 22.5%
Vers - 10%
Mastery - 3%

Simcraft shows haste as my lowest stat weight right now, find that kind of interesting. My current weights are...
Str 7.30 > Vers 6.08 > Crit 6.04 > Mastery 5.76 > Haste 5.23

Pretty even spread, I had more haste but I ended up droppping some for more crit and vers and my simdps went up. Is 30% haste really that big of a deal and why does it sim so low if it is?

It's pretty frustrating, I agree. I think there's a ballpark range of like 25-30% ideally just to smooth out your rotation. I have a Hunter as well, and gearing up with the right stats on him is so easy. It's always been Mastery > Haste (with low haste its mastery>=haste) > Crit > Vers. And it never changes. Life is so much simpler on my hunter

[Braxton1247]

I too had Zeal sim higher then TFoJ on single target. This was early on in gearing as I was working into heroic dungeons so my options were limited at the time. I was simming each new item that dropped to get the most DPS from what little I had. I had some unlucky drops and ended up with an obscene amount of mastery and vers. This was when Zeal sim'ed higher for me on single target. I had several high WF and TF ilvl upgrades from world quests that caused a large and immediate change in my stats. I dropped mastery and picked up more crit, still couldn't get over 15% haste at that time (the RNG gods hate me), this was when TFoJ pulled ahead in single target again. My theory had been that somehow the large amount of mastery I had, which changed into crit/vers gear, was the cause of Zeal doing so much damage on single target. I had this theory because my haste stayed relatively the same and my vers went up when my gear changed.

I am ilvl 854 now and have alot of gear options now to play around with stats. I have tried, just out of curiosity, to replicate Zeal doing more damage then TFoJ on single target but I have not been able to (even stacking all the mastery I can 35ish% in place of haste at 15ish%).

What also through me off was when I was close (within .5%) to the same % of stats I had before I got a higher ilvl and even using some of the gear I had used back when I first found Zeal had higher ST DPS over TFoJ, my stat weights were different now. Again I don't have exact numbers but haste came out my lowest stat now with crit=vers > mastery. Where as before haste was my highest with crit > verse > mastery.

I do or at least I thought I had a basic understanding of how stat weights scale based off the amounts you have but things like this (not being able to reproduce the same results) are just utterly confusing. I realize there are alot of variables in my testing that are different now then from before but I would think some kind of pattern should had shown up by now and I haven't noticed one. It's almost as if you get diminishing returns on stat x if you don't have enough of stat z and also on stat z if you don't have enough of stat y but it seems like they don't always scale the same way when you add more stats. And by add more stats I mean adding the same amount of a stat under similar conditions with similar gear. I have found that the end results are very different sometimes.

[dnicks17]

This could be based on the trinkets you have. What trinkets are you using? Are you using Crusade as the last talent tier as well? Also if at 26% haste you are sacrificing a lot of Versatility, then that could heavily change your Sim numbers and priorities. At low Vers levels (mine is also around the 4% mark), Vers will become much more valuable. At least this is what I have noticed.

Yeah. Crusade for every one.

Tried all combinations of Chaos Talisman(840), Nature's Call(880) and WQ reward(850 ilvl, static 1233 str/932 haste). CT and the WQ giving the highest dps.

My vers drops to 2% from 4% with the 26% haste setup.


I'm struggling to get gear that lets me up my vers without losing haste. Basically everything I have is crit/haste or haste/crit. I guess it could be worse.