Post-nerf Outlaw retune needed

[Lesane]

Outlaw ST is where it should be. If I were blizzard I would buff the blade flurry coefficient just enough to put it ahead in AoE and call it a day.

Having dedicated specs for AoE and ST is fucking retarded design. What's the point of a spec if it's going to be crippled in half of the DPS spectrum?

[philefluxx]

Right, and it's not just traits. My whole gearing and relic strategy is Outlaw-based. Everything I have is designed around playing Outlaw rogue.

So why don't you just keep moving forward with your plan?

[mikeezy]

Right, and it's not just traits. My whole gearing and relic strategy is Outlaw-based. Everything I have is designed around playing Outlaw rogue. It's not just "toss some AP into the other weapon", it's "collect 3 BIS relics, different trinkets, different gear", etc. This might be a bit hyperbolic since stats aren't THAT different from spec to spec right now but it's certainly not just "level your other weapon this week".

Your whole gearing strategy? Sorry but how would your gearing strategy/method be any different if there were another spec to work on? Literally, all you had to do is not vendor everything that isn't BiS for outlaw.

[shaunika123]

Having dedicated specs for AoE and ST is fucking retarded design. What's the point of a spec if it's going to be crippled in half of the DPS spectrum?

what's the point of 36 specs if all of them can do everything equally well?

[neozz1]

I tweeted at warcraftdevs and Ion, also put in a ticket, we will see if I get any responses. (None of them were crappy besides saying it was a lie)

[Kalador]

I tweeted at warcraftdevs and Ion, also put in a ticket, we will see if I get any responses. (None of them were crappy besides saying it was a lie)

My class gets nerf by 5ish% and is now equal if not still better than to the 2 other in almost all situations I feel so cheated it's worth a ticket.... Give me a break....

[broggernaut]

what's the point of 36 specs if all of them can do everything equally well?

If the only thing required was switching specs and talents, that'd be a valid point.

However, each spec is going to require 3 relics, all of the right traits AND appropriate ilvl, along with enough invested AP to give them worthwhile traits. It's unfair to ask that investment when others don't need to commit even half that amount of effort.

He's right that it's a stupid design that you need to pick one role. It's also stupid that they can't seem to pull their heads out of the sand despite mountains of feedback through Alpha, Beta, and now Live.

[Deleted]

My class gets nerf by 5ish% and is now equal if not still better than to the 2 other in almost all situations I feel so cheated it's worth a ticket.... Give me a break....

You are missing the point tho.

The problem here is for anyone who wants to do the best they can. This problem doesn't hit people who are fine with being mediocre or simply "play the spec that suits you" people.

The problem here is that watcher said they would not nerf specs in a way that the top dog would be below the other specs of the same class. This way people felt it was perfectly OK to go all out ham on outlaw and ignore the other two specs. Now those of us who gives two shits about optimising ourselves have to start from scratch with sub. And that does kinda suck.

Sub also have different stat weights

[Kalador]

You are missing the point tho.

The problem here is for anyone who wants to do the best they can. This problem doesn't hit people who are fine with being mediocre or simply "play the spec that suits you" people.

The problem here is that watcher said they would not nerf specs in a way that the top dog would be below the other specs of the same class. This way people felt it was perfectly OK to go all out ham on outlaw and ignore the other two specs. Now those of us who gives two shits about optimising ourselves have to start from scratch with sub. And that does kinda suck.

Sub also have different stat weights

No your missing the point outlaw and sub are equal till mythic gear + legendary .... Every rogue specs are roughly equal and claming sub is superior is wrong.... it should be a good news for all the rogue that the balance between the 3 spec is on point not a subject of complaints

[mikeezy]

The problem here is for anyone who wants to do the best they can. This problem doesn't hit people who are fine with being mediocre or simply "play the spec that suits you" people.

The problem here is that watcher said they would not nerf specs in a way that the top dog would be below the other specs of the same class.

So are you saying that if sub were buffed in a way to be ahead of outlaw, but outlaw remained untouched, then all of us would be fine with outlaw?

We knew changes were going to come to the other 2 specs, yet no one seemed to prepare at all. I went into Legion expecting Sub to be buffed heavily because that seems to have been the pattern for rogues at release-- mut is typically top since it's the least reliant on gear and scales the worst, combat sucks at the start with a lack of haste, and sub is just plain weak until it gets buffs and scales harder with gear. For all of the rogues who have played since vanilla (or at least Cata), I don't understand the lack of foresight.

[shaunika123]

If the only thing required was switching specs and talents, that'd be a valid point.

However, each spec is going to require 3 relics, all of the right traits AND appropriate ilvl, along with enough invested AP to give them worthwhile traits. It's unfair to ask that investment when others don't need to commit even half that amount of effort.

He's right that it's a stupid design that you need to pick one role. It's also stupid that they can't seem to pull their heads out of the sand despite mountains of feedback through Alpha, Beta, and now Live.

look, you cant balance classes to be equally good at everything without making them the exact same thing, and blizzard gave up trying to do that, they literally said "we're gonna play to class/spec strengths rather than fixing weaknesses, so yeah itll create differences in which spec an do what

you dont need all ~13 dps to be equally good at everything in a raid, that's why you select a teamcomp you know.

[oqtopus]

they never said they wouldnt make the best spec of the class to the worst spec of the class
they said they wouldnt make the #1 dps the last dps , you are still very viable

also it made the 3 closer to eachother iam actually glad they nerfed outlaw so i can play sub/assa without having to worry about being denied just cos i dont deal as much dmg as outlaw did

[Deleted]

No your missing the point outlaw and sub are equal till mythic gear + legendary .... Every rogue specs are roughly equal and claming sub is superior is wrong.... it should be a good news for all the rogue that the balance between the 3 spec is on point not a subject of complaints

Its funny how you keep 1-upping yourself.

Sims say Sub pulls ahead in 860'ish ilvl.

You start out saying it pulls a head just before 870

Then you say its in the 870's.

Now you say its Mythic plus Legendary.

As i said this problem does not exist for people who dont want to optimise themselves such as you. I udnerstand that. Maybe however you could try and view this from the perspective of someone who DO care about doing their absolute best, and was told i could safely pick the best spec because it would not get nerfed below the rest???

So are you saying that if sub were buffed in a way to be ahead of outlaw, but outlaw remained untouched, then all of us would be fine with outlaw?

No. That is literally not what i said. Learn to read

look, you cant balance classes to be equally good at everything without making them the exact same thing, and blizzard gave up trying to do that, they literally said "we're gonna play to class/spec strengths rather than fixing weaknesses, so yeah itll create differences in which spec an do what

you dont need all ~13 dps to be equally good at everything in a raid, that's why you select a teamcomp you know.

Same deal here. I'm not expecting each spec to be equally good at everything. I'm not expecting outlaw to be king of both aoe and ST(not that it was pre nerf, but still).

I am expecting Watcher to keep his word about not nerfing one spec that was the best at something, below others.

That is the problem min/maxers are facing.

What should ahve happened was blizzard should have made sure either sub or Assassination was best for ST and outlaw was best for burst aoe from the get go. What happened now is exactly what they promised would not happen, that we have spend a lot of time and effort on a spec that really didnt need that much time and effort to perform fine for a few cleave fights, and then have one spec we really supertuned for single target dps.

- - - Updated - - -

they never said they wouldnt make the best spec of the class to the worst spec of the class
they said they wouldnt make the #1 dps the last dps , you are still very viable

also it made the 3 closer to eachother iam actually glad they nerfed outlaw so i can play sub/assa without having to worry about being denied just cos i dont deal as much dmg as outlaw did

Yes they did. Go back in this thread and watch watchers interview. Please dont spread false information

[Deleted]

As it stands if you get good rolls you get to keep up with with everyone else. If you get unlucky, you're fucked.
It used to be "its average at its worst and sometimes you are great". Right now it's "get lucky, or get kicked".

Really dissapointed. I was excited to eventually try mut/sub as they were deservlely buffed to viability.
Now I feel forced into them, I'm not going to explore their gameplay with wonder, it's going to be shoved down my throat just to justify my raid spot.

[Kalador]

Its funny how you keep 1-upping yourself.

Sims say Sub pulls ahead in 860'ish ilvl.

You start out saying it pulls a head just before 870

Then you say its in the 870's.

Now you say its Mythic plus Legendary.

As i said this problem does not exist for people who dont want to optimise themselves such as you. I udnerstand that. Maybe however you could try and view this from the perspective of someone who DO care about doing their absolute best, and was told i could safely pick the best spec because it would not get nerfed below the rest???

Sims have both outlaw and subs equal at 865 ilvl. 2.5-3% difference witch is nothing on real boss.outlaw is equal or better than subs in 2-3 target situation in M gear... and sub is head in hectic sims with perfect mfd usage (witch will never happen), outlaw is probably the best spec to play for almost all adds fight.it's probably still the best spec to play in mythic +.stop arguing that sub is now sudenly THE SHIT TO PLAY it's not, its a freaking choice.

the legendary boots are very very strong for subs and without them subs is actually way closer to outlaw in mythic gear...

You're arguing because outlaw was best at the start of the expac on every situation it should stay head for the full expac in every situation, sorry but it's stupide. Every one saw the nerf to outlaw coming and I'm actually surprised how well they were done, where all 3 specs have niche, and are all very viable and choice.
Go reroll Fotm sub but be carefull it's probably going to get nerf in NH... the best choice for you would be to play a 1 sec dps so you're sure your dps spec will always be best choice.

Sorry but this ''we want outlaw to be best at everything again" is BS.

[Hctaz]

can you quote me on blizzard saying outlaw wont be lower than sub?

all they said they'll try their best to make the specs stay as close as possible and instead of heavy nerf you could expect heavy buffs rather.

did you just expect them to intentionally leave sub worse for 2 whole years?

Well okay not forever but they specifically said at least for the start of the expansion that they would make sure that the top dps spec will still be the top dps spec. Their example was that "if fire was 10% better" than the other specs then instead of nerfing them to be in line they would nerf the spec to be "only 5% higher".

[Deleted]

Sims have both outlaw and subs equal at 865 ilvl. 2.5-3% difference witch is nothing on real boss.outlaw is equal or better than subs in 2-3 target situation in M gear... and sub is head in hectic sims with perfect mfd usage (witch will never happen), outlaw is probably the best spec to play for almost all adds fight.it's probably still the best spec to play in mythic +.stop arguing that sub is now sudenly THE SHIT TO PLAY it's not, its a freaking choice.

the legendary boots are very very strong for subs and without them subs is actually way closer to outlaw in mythic gear...

You're arguing because outlaw was best at the start of the expac on every situation it should stay head for the full expac in every situation, sorry but it's stupide. Every one saw the nerf to outlaw coming and I'm actually surprised how well they were done, where all 3 specs have niche, and are all very viable and choice.
Go reroll Fotm sub but be carefull it's probably going to get nerf in NH... the best choice for you would be to play a 1 sec dps so you're sure your dps spec will always be best choice.

Sorry but this ''we want outlaw to be best at everything again" is BS.

You are constantly misquoting me and its getting to a point where is kinda childish.

I actually said that i didnt expect outlaw to be king of ST and AoE.

To you a 5% difference doesnt mean anything. For people who want to be the best they can be it means everything. Until you understand that there is no point discussing anything with you.

As you most likely know sub will continue to scale better. And at 870+ gear its a good margin ahead of everything else. At mythic gear(which i am already gonna start getting) its a very decent chunk ahead.

Anyway. I dont really care abotu your mediocre pleb views. They dont apply here.

Infracted.

[mikeezy]

As i said this problem does not exist for people who dont want to optimise themselves such as you. I udnerstand that. Maybe however you could try and view this from the perspective of someone who DO care about doing their absolute best, and was told i could safely pick the best spec because it would not get nerfed below the rest???

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No. That is literally not what i said. Learn to read

You wrote

The problem here is that watcher said they would not nerf specs in a way that the top dog would be below the other specs of the same class.

The VERY OBVIOUS implication of this statement is that you had an issue with outlaw damage being reduced, placing it lower than other specs. I said.

So are you saying that if sub were buffed in a way to be ahead of outlaw, but outlaw remained untouched, then all of us would be fine with outlaw?

A case where outlaw would NOT be nerfed to be the lowest. Read it again. THE DAMAGE WOULD NOT BE CHANGED (read it like 5 more times). Rather, outlaw would remain untouched whereas the other specs would be buffed to be ahead of it. So either you're the one that needs to learn to read, or be the one to articulate your crying better.

[Deleted]

You wrote



and I said



A case where outlaw would NOT be nerfed to be the lowest. Rather, outlaw would remain untouched whereas the other specs would be buffed to be ahead of it. So either you're the one that needs to learn to read, or be the one to articulate your crying better.

The point is not who is getting buffed or nerfed. The point is that top dog should stay top dog.

Its obvious to anyone with the slightest of reading comprehension.

[Kalador]

I dont really care abotu your mediocre pleb views. They dont apply here.

LOL... what a great comback...