Final Boss for this Expansion

[Aquamonkey]

Try, try, try again.

N'Zoth is the only Old God left. That was Hearthstone blog entry, not written in-universe. Yep, canonical lore book doesn't count because you say so. You realize in-game materials are also contradictory? But sure, WoG, multiple separate sources... clearly it's all just fanon.

EDIT: Also, Il'gynoth is part of the Legion? Must be why it calls out to N'Zoth when it dies...

[Aucald]

You showed 0 proof. You cited Chronicle which says Yogg opened a door. You did not show Nzoth in the dream, thus you failed to prove your point.

Yogg-Saron opened the door, the entirety of the Old Gods influenced the Emerald Dream. N'Zoth is the last Old God remaining, the Emerald Dream is still corrupt until the death of Xavius - who is himself allied with the Legion but retains his connection to the Old Gods. I disagree with your proclamation, but you're free to have your own opinion.

You have not been able to refute the in game reference to Il'gynoth being legion affiliated since your claim that it was something that was a rotation has been proven wrong since each iteration has its own quest text(Illy Xavius Cenarius). It is 100% plausible that he was of old god origin, but in game text flat out states he is legion allied.

That quest has him allied with the Legion - which he is, albeit indirectly, as Xavius is using the Nightmare on the Legion's behalf. But that doesn't change Il'gynoth's stated allegiance to N'Zoth in the same in-game text. Everything about Il'gynoth is Old God related, and as you yourself stated above is also his origin.

UVG is garbage since a ton of inaccuracies exist within it like stating that Deathwing is LITERALLY Wrathion's father which is impossible due to how he came about so I really could care less about UVG.

Other games are non canonical when it comes to WoW(as in HotS and Hearthstone). They are nothing to do with the universe.

I am referring to "World of Warcraft: Ultimate Visual Guide - Updated and Expanded," in which the retcons you mentioned have been removed from the source material. The item I referred to, however, remains canon. As for the Hearthstone material, it's not 100% canon but still correlates strongly to what was said above - it firmly connects N'Zoth to the Dream (something I thought was pretty much common knowledge).

You seem to be conflating the weekly quest text with the entirety of the Nightmare, origin and purpose included. From Il'gynoth's in-game text and speech to the player I doubt it knows or cares about the Legion's invasion of Azeroth - it's presence there is to further corrupt things on behalf of N'Zoth. Xavius is using it and the other denizens of the Nightmare for his own (and the Legion's) purposes. The quest alludes to that relationship, not that any of the other beings in the Nightmare are working directly for the Legion. Most of the beings in the Nightmare (Ursoc, Renferral, etc. etc.) are too warped with insanity to care about anything Legion-related in the first place.

[Deleted]

What if Sarg is the final boss and the entire final raid will be us scaling his body like we did with death wing, we seem to be 'Climbing' into the emerald Nightmare so it could be a theme. But personally i am hoping it is Azshara, the Next Expansion HAS to be ARGUS it is like the Pen ultimate expansion.

WoW is not ending anytime soon. Its a gold mine. Legion just jolted it from the "dead" aswell.
So... no "penultimate" nonsense. They came up with Pandaria and WoD from left field. Anything can happen.

[bufferunderrun]

illidan body + sargeras soul + xera hearth as a shield

[Notmitchshelton]

gul'dan is dying in the nighthold, and paladins (and maybe priests, i'm not sure) kill balnazaar in the finale of their order campaign. Balnazar dies in netherlight temple which itself is in the twisting nether.

spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!

[MikeBogina]

Old Gods only exist because the only way their makers, Void Gods, can corrupt a Titan is via the Old Gods.

And even then, they require the Titan to be "unborn", like with Azeroth.

That's why the exist, but that doesn't mean they're just limited to that one function. The Void Lords didn't just create these things in a second, we're talking about the most intelligent beings in existence, they must have imparted great intellect onto the Old Gods and more.

Titan forged waged war on the Old Gods and won. The only reason to not kill them was the fact that Aman'Thul ripping Y'Shaarj from Azeroth created a massive gushing wound that would eventually be staunched and become the Well of Eternity.

Well couple things from the book.
First thing, is that the book says the Old Gods were caught off guard when the war started. They were either too focused on the task at hand to not sense the Titans and their army or something.
The Titan Forged alone were not enough. The first Old God they fought was Y'shaarj and in the book it's said that Aman'thul ripped him out because he feared he would overwelm the Titanforged.
The C'thraxxi from Yogg'Saron were also able to mess with the Titan Forged and have won if Odyn didn't come up with a plan.

So yeah, there's reasons to not kill them, but without the Titans(Say Titans left the moment the battle started) the Old Gods would have won.

You're probably right - they are master game players, and are probably playing US into defeating Sargeras for them.

I'm glad you agree. We've seen Yogg Saron while imprisoned, tear apart the Dragon Flights, dismantle the Titan Forged, spread the curse of flesh and taint the Emerald Nightmare, all while he was imprisoned.
I think of him and I see some evil master mind behind prison, moving the chest pieces around and even when we beat him, his game is still playing. The Old Gods were caught off guard when the Titans came, but we've seen that when focused, just one of them can set in motion a series of terrible events, and not just for us, but the Legion too.

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Just because there is a recent semi trend doesn't mean every expansion now will end like a Saturday morning cartoon villain escaping and plotting mayhem

It's not the cartoon villain escapes, it's the bridging from one adventure to the next. If you think about it, all the forces of evil have been dealt a heavy blow and none of them had any way of striking at us for some time. Old God's forces at an all time low. Legion steal reeling from 2 failed invasions within years of each other. Scourge contained, Illidan's madness... retconned xD

So when there's no major events coming our way after Cataclysm, Garrosh and Wrathion are made/developed to be the 2 biggest F ups in history, for people with daddy issues. They lead us to WoD, which leads to the Legion finding way to get back into Azeroth, which leads to the Old Gods getting another big distraction to play their games.

The one big think I keep seeing this expansion is "War of the Ancients" everywhere I look. And the main threat in that event wasn't Sargeras, but the Old Gods taking advantage of the Legion invasion. And it's happening now too. Just some of us have been seeing them before others. :P

[Snuffleupagus]

Nowhere in any source unless you can provide it does it say that Nzoth was in the dream. Hell the current quest text in legion says even Il'gynoth is legion affiliated.

WoW Chronicle 1, page 124

But yeah, whatever you say champ.

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Old Gods
That's why the exist, but that doesn't mean they're just limited to that one function. The Void Lords didn't just create these things in a second, we're talking about the most intelligent beings in existence, they must have imparted great intellect onto the Old Gods and more.

Titan Forged
Well couple things from the book.
First thing, is that the book says the Old Gods were caught off guard when the war started. They were either too focused on the task at hand to not sense the Titans and their army or something.
The Titan Forged alone were not enough. The first Old God they fought was Y'shaarj and in the book it's said that Aman'thul ripped him out because he feared he would overwelm the Titanforged.
The C'thraxxi from Yogg'Saron were also able to mess with the Titan Forged and have won if Odyn didn't come up with a plan.

So yeah, there's reasons to not kill them, but without the Titans(Say Titans left the moment the battle started) the Old Gods would have won.

Yogg Saron
I'm glad you agree. We've seen Yogg Saron while imprisoned, tear apart the Dragon Flights, dismantle the Titan Forged, spread the curse of flesh and taint the Emerald Nightmare, all while he was imprisoned.
I think of him and I see some evil master mind behind prison, moving the chest pieces around and even when we beat him, his game is still playing. The Old Gods were caught off guard when the Titans came, but we've seen that when focused, just one of them can set in motion a series of terrible events, and not just for us, but the Legion too.

Old Gods: I certainly agree that they are capable of a lot, but Chronicles pg21 establishes the reason for their creation by the Void Lords. And the actions of Aman'Thul demonstrate that an awaken Titan can one shot an Old God. Only the depth of their infestation caused an issue.

Titan-forged
Likely they would have lost if the Titans left straight away, but the first encounter allowed them to form a game plan for imprisoning and dealing with them, avoiding the need for Titan intervention. Keep in mind that the Keepers are also technically Titan-forged, so Odyn coming up with ideas is a point in their favor.

Yogg Saron
A lot of questing in Wrath dealt with the games that Yogg Saron played, there's no way I wouldn't agree with your assessment. But I would say that an awakened Titan is more than a match for the Old Gods, which relegates their strength levels to roughly Keeper level (and we've already defeated, and even killed them).

The big hurdle will be their minions, which will give a lot of content. If Xavius can play both sides (Legion and Void), I expect others to be doing the same. If Sargeras knew that Xavius was affiliated with the Void, there's no way he would let him live, let alone serve the Legion.

We may end up finding Sargeras rejected by the Legion itself when all is said and done.

[Friendlyimmolation]

We may end up finding Sargeras rejected by the Legion itself when all is said and done.

Sargeras is so powerful that he can wipe Demons from existence. Fear keeps them in line in nothing else will. Not alot of demons turned traitor.

[Lei]

I'll just say who I would not like to see.
- No KJ #2 / Archi #3 etc.
- No unkillable demon. I feel the struggle that everything we did in the past that involved demons (Mannoroth, Archi, KJ) was in vain, but once again, after Archi #2, no please don't do that again. Would be good to see this story to finally move somewhere. Thank god we killed Ragnaros for good in Firelands for example, onyxia for 3 times was enough, alternate Gul'dan could finally fuck off too. Hope it will be something original and new, and "heavy".
- Jaina. Just please don't ruin her even more than she is. Her story overall and in Legion. Poor thing. Leave her alone.
- Sylvanas. She doesn't really fit right now, whatever she is doing must be still better - for now - than having the Legion camping on Azeroth.

[purebalance]

I'll just say who I would not like to see.
- No KJ #2 / Archi #3 etc.
- No unkillable demon. I feel the struggle that everything we did in the past that involved demons (Mannoroth, Archi, KJ) was in vain, but once again, after Archi #2, no please don't do that again. Would be good to see this story to finally move somewhere. Thank god we killed Ragnaros for good in Firelands for example, onyxia for 3 times was enough, alternate Gul'dan could finally fuck off too. Hope it will be something original and new, and "heavy".
- Jaina. Just please don't ruin her even more than she is. Her story overall and in Legion. Poor thing. Leave her alone.
- Sylvanas. She doesn't really fit right now, whatever she is doing must be still better - for now - than having the Legion camping on Azeroth.

Archimonde is dead for good so you don't need to worry about that. It was stated in an interview they dropped the ball on explaining it, but the mythic dying in the nether is in fact canonical.

Onyxia twice was the only canonical killings: Lair in Vanilla and with Nef in BWD.

Also, technically all of the elemental lords get replaced if killed. Not sure who took over for Rag now, but it's explained in the shaman order hall campaign.

[Lei]

Archimonde is dead for good so you don't need to worry about that. It was stated in an interview they dropped the ball on explaining it, but the mythic dying in the nether is in fact canonical.

Onyxia twice was the only canonical killings: Lair in Vanilla and with Nef in BWD.

Also, technically all of the elemental lords get replaced if killed. Not sure who took over for Rag now, but it's explained in the shaman order hall campaign.

See post #15 in this very thread on Archimonde http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post42338655

Smolderon is the new fire elemental lord, nobody knows who the hell he is, I think it's the usual bad writing but whatever, and seems like he is on our side. For now.

[purebalance]

WoW Chronicle 1, page 124

But yeah, whatever you say champ.

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Old Gods: I certainly agree that they are capable of a lot, but Chronicles pg21 establishes the reason for their creation by the Void Lords. And the actions of Aman'Thul demonstrate that an awaken Titan can one shot an Old God. Only the depth of their infestation caused an issue.

Titan-forged
Likely they would have lost if the Titans left straight away, but the first encounter allowed them to form a game plan for imprisoning and dealing with them, avoiding the need for Titan intervention. Keep in mind that the Keepers are also technically Titan-forged, so Odyn coming up with ideas is a point in their favor.

Yogg Saron
A lot of questing in Wrath dealt with the games that Yogg Saron played, there's no way I wouldn't agree with your assessment. But I would say that an awakened Titan is more than a match for the Old Gods, which relegates their strength levels to roughly Keeper level (and we've already defeated, and even killed them).

The big hurdle will be their minions, which will give a lot of content. If Xavius can play both sides (Legion and Void), I expect others to be doing the same. If Sargeras knew that Xavius was affiliated with the Void, there's no way he would let him live, let alone serve the Legion.

We may end up finding Sargeras rejected by the Legion itself when all is said and done.

Source on Xavius working for the old gods please and thanks. Legion still says he's Legion affiliated and says the Nightmare is a Legion thing: http://www.wowhead.com/quest=43546/i...tmare-ilgynoth

Also page 124 of Chronicle has 0 mention of Nzoth going into the dream "champ".

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See post #15 in this very thread on Archimonde http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post42338655

Smolderon is the new fire elemental lord, nobody knows who the hell he is, I think it's the usual bad writing but whatever, and seems like he is on our side. For now.

Right now it's canon though is what he said.

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N'Zoth is the only Old God left. That was Hearthstone blog entry, not written in-universe. Yep, canonical lore book doesn't count because you say so. You realize in-game materials are also contradictory? But sure, WoG, multiple separate sources... clearly it's all just fanon.

EDIT: Also, Il'gynoth is part of the Legion? Must be why it calls out to N'Zoth when it dies...

Canonical book with a ton of things that are wrong cannot be canonical. You can sit and use it until you're blue in the face, but if a book written prior to Legion says that Malfurion is dead and yet here he is staring you in the face in Legion.... that whole book should be discarded as non canonical(this is a for instance and not actually something that happened since you can't seem to grasp your head around a simple concept I had to go big).

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=43546/i...tmare-ilgynoth He's legion sorry it's in game and canonical.

[Snuffleupagus]

Sargeras is so powerful that he can wipe Demons from existence. Fear keeps them in line in nothing else will. Not alot of demons turned traitor.

Sargeras can also one shot an Old God and defeated the Pantheon. He is insanely strong.

But the Old Gods are crafty. They will ensure he never opens a portal to Azeroth, abd I would wager we never encounter him near Azeroth, since he can destroy planets. We will be manipulated into removing him from the equation, and since the Old Gods have already demonstrated that they can control at least one Demon (Xavius), it seems like they would be well placed to fill in the void left by Sargeras.

[Shaqthefat]

The majority of your claims are, as usual for these forums, head canon. Show me proof please.

Deathwing was virtually alone in causing the Cataclysm and Nzoth's MINIONS jumped on the bandwagon.

Sure I'll give you the naga, but not made he simply stopped them from becoming scratching crack fiends drowning in the ocean and instead made them reptilian sea creatures.

Xavius has complete control of the nightmare. In game quest text also implies the nightmare is legion affiliated now.

I really don't care about his whispers or quotes. In game text flat out says Il'gynoth is a legion member.

Xala'thath says that the legion seeks to control the nightmare and they will fail. Not caring about whispers or quotes its refusal to accept the truth, because you disagree with it.

You have to pay attention to this video and lore in-game if you pretty much want to see my proof for N'zoth "paying deathwings paychecks"

https://youtu.be/xzjOE4qFgpY?t=361

[Lei]

Right now it's canon though is what he said.

Why leave the door open if you never want to go through? I mean they confirmed Rag being dead for good after the heroic defeat, why keep the possibility of Archi around?
Don't misunderstand me, I'm happy if they won't use him ever again. It's just the door is wide open that made me bring it up.

[Snuffleupagus]

Source on Xavius working for the old gods please and thanks. Legion still says he's Legion affiliated and says the Nightmare is a Legion thing: http://www.wowhead.com/quest=43546/i...tmare-ilgynoth

In game characters in a game have dicovered something in a universe where characters make mistakes.

Better trust their assessment.

I mean, if we're doing that, let's go talk to Malfurion in the Emerald Nightmare?

Malfurion Stormrage yells: No doubt Xavius and his ancient master delight that so much of our attention goes to fighting the Legion. Their insidious shadow seeps into our world, distracting us with whispers and doubts.

O shit son

Whaaaaat

Illuminati fucking confirmed

[purebalance]

Xala'thath says that the legion seeks to control the nightmare and they will fail. Not caring about whispers or quotes its refusal to accept the truth, because you disagree with it.

You have to pay attention to this video and lore in-game if you pretty much want to see my proof for N'zoth "paying deathwings paychecks"

https://youtu.be/xzjOE4qFgpY?t=361

Metzen has on NUMEROUS occasions said incorrect things on these panels to look cool, so until you provide me an in game or novel source, he didn't.

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In game characters in a game have dicovered something in a universe where characters make mistakes.

Better trust their assessment.

I mean, if we're doing that, let's go talk to Malfurion in the Emerald Nightmare?

Malfurion Stormrage yells: No doubt Xavius and his ancient master delight that so much of our attention goes to fighting the Legion. Their insidious shadow seeps into our world, distracting us with whispers and doubts.

O shit son

Whaaaaat

Illuminati fucking confirmed

My source is from a omniscient source while yours is what Malfurion believes. Quest text is not from a person.

O shit son. Try again.

[Deleted]

N'Zoth as final boss would be a huge let down in my mind. He's supposed to be the weakest of the Old Gods, and we already handled the others. We've defeated the likes of Deathwing and LK, and in an expansion as grand as legion you want a weak Old God?

According to your logic Kil'jaeden being the final boss would also be a letdown since he is weaker than Archimonde.

Pure strength isn't everything that should be compared. Kil'jaeden is obviously more of a schemer than Archimonde was. While Archimonde fights you head on, Kil'jaeden sends his agents to backstab and betray you when you least expect it.

Same could be said about N'zoth. He might not be the most powerful (originally, who knows how things are now), but he's the smartest.

[Seramore]

In game characters in a game have dicovered something in a universe where characters make mistakes.

Better trust their assessment.

I mean, if we're doing that, let's go talk to Malfurion in the Emerald Nightmare?

Malfurion Stormrage yells: No doubt Xavius and his ancient master delight that so much of our attention goes to fighting the Legion. Their insidious shadow seeps into our world, distracting us with whispers and doubts.

O shit son

Whaaaaat

Illuminati fucking confirmed

dweeb fucking city in this post.

also jaina and varian suggesed as an end boss? huge shocker.

[Snuffleupagus]

My source is from a omniscient source while yours is what Malfurion believes. Quest text is not from a person.

O shit son. Try again.

Infracted.

"Our Champions have discovered the source of the corruption. The Emerald Dream has been infested by the Legion..."

Our Champions have reported back to us on that they believe is the source of the corruption. Hardly omniscient.

Illuminati still fucking confirmed son

O shit

Sonnnn

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dweeb fucking city in this post.

also jaina and varian suggesed as an end boss? huge shocker.

M8 I ain't even begun with my dweebness

Fite me