I'm just going to assume this isn't accurate?

[JonBeMerkin]

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html

Whats going on with these DPS sims i'm seeing with hunters are these accurate? If its accurate i'm assuming the fact almost every spec got buffed by a lot and hunters didn't that they just stayed around the same spot while others rose? Btw I play healer so don't really look into the DPS stuff too much but guild needs ranged DPS in the near future so i'm looking at options.

If anyone could let me know whats up i'd appreciate it

[Deifi]

The sims are wrong, just like the last ones they put up.

[Deleted]

the world first Xavius had two MM hunters. You are safe

Do you know what talents ?

Barrage or AMOC?

[Madh4tter]

Do you know what talents ?

Barrage or AMOC?

It's barrage

[Deleted]

These SIMS are really unreliable, even logs are not stable enough to assess anything objectively aside from a few clearly sub par specs (frost DK, fury)

[Xarathan]

These SIMS are really unreliable, even logs are not stable enough to assess anything objectively aside from a few clearly sub par specs (frost DK, fury)

what do you mean with stable? logs are the only source of information which directly tells how well specs perform on certain bosses, sure with the last nerf sample size may be on the low end for bottom tier specs, but other than that they are the best thing you can look at and draw conclusions from

[Azortharion]

These SIMS are really unreliable, even logs are not stable enough to assess anything objectively aside from a few clearly sub par specs (frost DK, fury)

If there's anything logs are sub-par for, it's sub-par specs because no one plays specs that are perceived as bad, which in turn makes them look even worse on the logs because the only people playing them are the ones who don't really care about performance on a high level.

[Skul]

I wish sim c would release a huge disclaimer that states "these sims include fights with no movement, perfect robot rotation, unnatural ms + reaction timing, and very weird AP breakpoints" as a fucking popup before you are allowed to view the results.

[Azortharion]

It's not a perfect robot rotation, it's not unnatural latency either.

[Skul]

It's not a perfect robot rotation, it's not unnatural latency either.

Ok good point. I had to go look and I see now that it is set to 100ms latency which is very forgiving.

The queue latency is 5ms which means the sim is going to fire off each spell in its priority chain right away, with no real delays / hiccups that can be present in real situations. Additionally (looking at sim + BM hunt) the assumed skill is set to 100% with 100% uptime and 0.0% focus cap, which I realize gives less DPS error / range, but is something that an ultra minority ever actually play at, thus my comment of it being robotic and fake-ish.

Perhaps I should reword the robot rotation portion to "unrealistic skill settings for 99.99% of people." Because let us be real here, these sim number releases are not for that 0.01% that play at top skill.

[Azortharion]

It's not robotic, it's worse than a good player can do (where brief focus caps are usually good), especially on multi-target. It doesn't take some next level robot skills or reaction times to play better than the sim. With 1.5s base GCD, it's not like there's anything the sim can react to that a human can't. The skill setting isn't unrealistic, it's very much attainable by anyone paying just a bit of attention, considering it's the easiest rotation in the game.

[Soisoisoi]

Ok good point. I had to go look and I see now that it is set to 100ms latency which is very forgiving.

The queue latency is 5ms which means the sim is going to fire off each spell in its priority chain right away, with no real delays / hiccups that can be present in real situations. Additionally (looking at sim + BM hunt) the assumed skill is set to 100% with 100% uptime and 0.0% focus cap, which I realize gives less DPS error / range, but is something that an ultra minority ever actually play at, thus my comment of it being robotic and fake-ish.

Perhaps I should reword the robot rotation portion to "unrealistic skill settings for 99.99% of people." Because let us be real here, these sim number releases are not for that 0.01% that play at top skill.

You can actually set SimCraft's "skill" level. In that, it will make errors and such so it will be more like a real person. The idea of SimCraft, though, is to give you an idea of what the spec's full potential is.

[Stanislav]

its almost like someone uploaded a bad sim calculation to save us from all the nerfs, watch streams and look up logs, MM is topping charts and only fire/monks overtake it right now.

[skitzy129]

I wish sim c would release a huge disclaimer that states "these sims include fights with no movement, perfect robot rotation, unnatural ms + reaction timing, and very weird AP breakpoints" as a fucking popup before you are allowed to view the results.

I don't think you know how or what SimCraft does..

[Skul]

I don't think you know how or what SimCraft does..

I am directly referencing the sims provided in the original post that started this conversation. I am not including the potential to lower the skill cap, change the latency, adding in error, adding in additional mobs, changing fight length, etc, because the sims that are released to the "public eye" as above in the opening post are unrealistic sims.

My post has nothing to do with Sim C as a whole, it has to do with the above provided sims.

Additional: I think Sim C is pretty much shit when comparing class to class (such as OP sims) because of how unrealistic it is to compare a mage to a melee on any fight that does not take into account movement, burst windows, add handling, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

You can actually set SimCraft's "skill" level. In that, it will make errors and such so it will be more like a real person. The idea of SimCraft, though, is to give you an idea of what the spec's full potential is.

Fully aware of this. This post is in regards to the above public released sims. Which I agree the above sims are "full potential" in the most unrealistic way possible.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not robotic, it's worse than a good player can do (where brief focus caps are usually good), especially on multi-target. It doesn't take some next level robot skills or reaction times to play better than the sim. With 1.5s base GCD, it's not like there's anything the sim can react to that a human can't. The skill setting isn't unrealistic, it's very much attainable by anyone paying just a bit of attention, considering it's the easiest rotation in the game.

Very true points when fighting a target dummy.

[Jayeazy]

I don't know why they refuse to update the hunter profile but that sim still uses distant army and barrage, both large dps losses.

[Azortharion]

I got access to the git and can change the default APL's, though I am not well-versed enough in git to actually do this. Will have to look it up. xd

[MrTharne]

its almost like someone uploaded a bad sim calculation to save us from all the nerfs, watch streams and look up logs, MM is topping charts and only fire/monks overtake it right now.

In logs MM is only dominating Il'Gynoth because the fight is perfect for the spec. You will see some MM on Dragons/Xavius because of smart positionning, but most of the top logs for all the fights don't include a lot of MM.

MM is still very strong because of the strengths of the spec in a raid setting.