Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Eleccybubb]

Why the hell do comments like these keep going? Its just another WoW topic that is open for discussion...

People have nothing better to do on a Thursday evening I guess.

[Vineri]

Because as above despite it not being in circulation the game is still their property. I mean they should just fucking do the servers already. Runescape did and there is still a healthy balance between the newer Runescape and Old school. I'd happily play on a Wrath/Cata legacy server if they did that and still keep going with Legion. Of course the main target is Vanilla first .

Of course it is their property, even out of circulation .. The way they could lose ownership would be if they did not enforce ownership with lawyers. This is expensive, though.

If Blizzard opened a Legacy server, I would resubscribe and even have Legions to boot as part of BattleNet. I've play Legions on a friends account, and it's not something I'll shell money out for.

[Eleccybubb]

Of course it is their property, even out of circulation .. The way their could lose ownership would be if they did not enforce ownership with lawyers. This is expensive, though.

If Blizzard opened a Legacy server, I would resubscribe and even have Legions to boot as part of BattleNet. I've play Legions on a friends account, and it's not something I'll shell money out for.

The problem is despite it being out of circulation "World of Warcraft" is still classed as the base game. Yeah I know it's changed a fuckload from 1-60 but the base game aka vanilla still exists in that aspect which is stupid.

[Vash The Stampede]

No. You cannot change a word and claim your work is not a plagiarism and a copyright violation.

I can understand something like a book, but in game text? We're talking about a few sentences here, not a novel. As far as I know Plagiarism and copyright infringement are not the same thing. There could even be a disclaimer that acknowledges the source. But considering the copyright system today, anything goes with the right amount of money.

Please name me any jurisdiction that considers creation a competing product as a fair use.

More importantly it's a recreation. Also when is it illegal to compete?

Geodata is stolen from the game. Data files are stolen from the game. Intellectual property of Blizzard is stored on the server and used without permission. It is not legal.

If this was indeed ripping from the game, then it is illegal. But if that's the case, I could easily see someone recreate this legally.

No private server really has an exact clone (that I know of). Server data was never leaked that I know of, outside of public info. Even if they did, the question then recirculates, whether the clone is truly authentic. One may exist, who knows, but generally the scripting is left to private servers to code to mimic a version of WoW. Blizzard says they lost much of the code, so they can't prove either way - nothing to compare to.

How can one pirate this data if Blizzard has lost it. Even though we all know Blizzard would have to be stupid not to keep backups of their game versions, especially for the servers.

Because as above despite it not being in circulation the game is still their property. I mean they should just fucking do the servers already. Runescape did and there is still a healthy balance between the newer Runescape and Old school. I'd happily play on a Wrath/Cata legacy server if they did that and still keep going with Legion. Of course the main target is Vanilla first .

I'd be happy if Blizzard would do it, just to show how bad modern WoW really is. If you like modern WoW and can't see yourself going back to legacy, then go ahead and play the game, but if there ends up being as many or more people playing classic WoW over modern, then the devs need to admit they've pushed WoW into the wrong direction.

[Thimagryn]

If Blizzard opened a themepark, I'd go there too. I'd probably get some of my friends to go too. I think it'd be pretty fun, I might actually spend money there.

[Vineri]

How can one pirate this data if Blizzard has lost it. Even though we all know Blizzard would have to be stupid not to keep backups of their game versions, especially for the servers.

This IS the big question. The only way for Blizzard to claim copyright infringement at this point is to produce their existing server side client, in it's entirety for the courts to decide, versus existing servers. This is data they currently publicly claim is lost.

To combat any "really good" retro server, Blizzard would need to backtrack and say ooh, we found the old server code. Would they?

I think it's cheaper and in Blizzard's best interests to just do Legacy, using others code, or just even implement their own "rediscovered code".

Blizzard is pushing Legions this month, I get it (tho not interested personally). What about next month?

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Why the hell do comments like these keep going? Its just another WoW topic that is open for discussion...

If you have something constructive to add, do so.

[slaise1]

given the effort blizz would need to go through to make new metadata, I would think retuning mc and bwl to properly reflect later-game talents wouldn't be a big deal, in relative terms.

A more significant issue would be what has happened on PS's with classic - pvp honor system. Premade AV skipping pvp and just doing the pve objectives as most efficient honor farm, etc. A real restructuring of classic honor system/rewards would be needed to short-circuit this. Possibly just make the weapons honor-point-based and only give ranks for the ladder system. no solution is perfect but the honor farm premades might well be an issue.

any changes, even desperately needed ones, may be viewed as opening pandora's box, of course. Why not use a 3.4.x engine and just back out the relevant 61+ talents/zones etc? Could keep achievements and arena. As this may illustrate, making 'needed' changes is definitely a slippery slope.

Then it wouldnt be a Legacy server anymore though

[Alaira]

This IS the big question. The only way for Blizzard to claim copyright infringement at this point is to produce their existing server side client, in it's entirety for the courts to decide, versus existing servers. This is data they currently publicly claim is lost.

To combat any "really good" retro server, Blizzard would need to backtrack and say ooh, we found the old server code. Would they?

I think it's cheaper and in Blizzard's best interests to just do Legacy, using others code, or just even implement their own "rediscovered code".

Blizzard is pushing Legions this month, I get it (tho not interested personally). What about next month?

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If you have something constructive to add, do so.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but you can patent a lightbulb, break the prototype, and still own the patent - right? What is this nonsense about keeping the old client? Copyright is exclusive rights to produce copies of an invention that you have patented. You legally own your idea, and no one else can lay claim to or use it without your explicit consent.

[Eleccybubb]

Then it wouldnt be a Legacy server anymore though

I don't get why people want a legacy server with the modern QOL improvements. You ask for vanilla then you get vanilla where resistances gated certain bosses, certain specs were broken and so on. If you make vanilla with no reagents, ammo, resistances, lfr, achievements and so on then it is not vanilla anymore. It is a customised version of vanilla with the modern changes of WoW. People in this thread don't want that they want a vanilla server. Well I want Wrath/Cata but let's see if vanilla happens first

[Vineri]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but you can patent a lightbulb, break the prototype, and still own the patent - right? What is this nonsense about keeping the old client? Copyright is exclusive rights to produce copies of an invention that you have patented. You legally own your idea, and no one else can lay claim to or use it without your explicit consent.

It's been biscussed before. Software and Hardware copyrights do not not share the same rules, simply because hardware more or less stays put, while software is upgraded, with many outdated versions.

Your lightbulb isn't going to go away, unless manufacturers keep changing the filament recipe ... titanium, iron, copper .. no no, next run lets do copper, iron, silver.

Last I checked, filament stays the same, year after year, no patches :P

The lightbulb argument is nonsense.

[Vash The Stampede]

To combat any "really good" retro server, Blizzard would need to backtrack and say ooh, we found the old server code. Would they?

I think it's pretty evident that when Blizzard made that statement, that they were trying to discourage people about the idea of a legacy server system. Nobody throws away old code.

I think it's cheaper and in Blizzard's best interests to just do Legacy, using others code, or just even implement their own "rediscovered code".

There would be a number of problems that comes with managing a legacy server.

#1 A lot of that legacy code would have missing new features that modern WoW has, including net code. Some work is needed to adapt that.
#2 The cost of managing a legacy server would be as much or more compared to a Legion server.
#3 You risk segregating your player base, which is never profitable for Blizzard.
#4 No in game store means no one would be able to purchase goodies.
#5 How much do you charge for Legacy servers? It's not active content or anything so some people might want it free of charge, not including the purchase of WoW. Especially when Nostalrius was doing it for free.

It's a huge mess on their hands and they know it.

Blizzard is pushing Legions this month, I get it (tho not interested personally). What about next month?

I've been watching WoW Census and I saw it went from 4.4 million players to now 3.1. Regardless of how one feels about the legitimacy of that website, that means that nearly 1/4 of players have already left and peak has been reached long ago. Like everyday or two that I check, nearly 100,000 players are missing.

Then it wouldnt be a Legacy server anymore though

I wouldn't mind if Blizzard were to bring back Vanilla or TBC like expansions with modern enhancements to the game engine. So long as it has no effect on the gameplay itself. Like no LFR, no player instant level 60, and nothing being altered or removed like the corrupt Ashbringer. I don't want anything referenced or changed to make sense for the modern WoW Legion. Bug fixes are also welcomed.

[Vineri]

I think it's pretty evident that when Blizzard made that statement, that they were trying to discourage people about the idea of a legacy server system. Nobody throws away old code.

It's Blizzard's statement, not mine. They say they lost the code. Whether true or not .....

There would be a number of problems that comes with managing a legacy server.

#1 A lot of that legacy code would have missing new features that modern WoW has, including net code. Some work is needed to adapt that.
#2 The cost of managing a legacy server would be as much or more compared to a Legion server.
#3 You risk segregating your player base, which is never profitable for Blizzard.
#4 No in game store means no one would be able to purchase goodies.
#5 How much do you charge for Legacy servers? It's not active content or anything so some people might want it free of charge, not including the purchase of WoW. Especially when Nostalrius was doing it for free.

It's a huge mess on their hands and they know it.

Quick blurbs on the points:
#1 No Legacy fan wants anything other than what was available "in the day". Network code is something Blizzard should be capable of. It's really the least of their worries.
#2 Maybe .. I think Blizzard's expenses 10 years ago was MUCH higher though. It seems to be mostly automated now, and is outsourced to other countries, which is cheap.
#3 Let players decide what they want to play. If there is a segregation issue, maybe the problem isn't Legacy ...
#4 This is valid. If Blizzard / Activision implemented a cash-shop in a Legacy WoW, that would ruin the entire idea. However retail could carry over, if say, tokens could still be bought there and applied to Legacy.
#5 Private Servers are free of charge for legal reasons, involving their governments, and not so much Blizzard. Nostalrius was free, so are many others still operating. Include Legacy with a Battlenet Sub? I'd subscribe. Private servers refuse donations or subscriptions - the good ones in the EU do anyways for legal reasons ... if any want payment they are likely in Asia and have horrible pings (ie not worth anyones time, let alone spending money).

[KrazyK923]

Take the poll at:
https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/778240756037263361

If you're still interested in official Legacy Realms.

Kern needs a way to keep his iota of popularity. Why not throw a fit again around Blizzcon?

[Vineri]

Kern needs a way to keep his iota of popularity. Why not throw a fit again around Blizzcon?

His twitter encouraged folks to wear Nostalrius T-shirts at Blizzcon at one point. I was left wondering why he just didn't offer them for free for any who wanted one, since he was the profiteer here. He has a business plan .. he needs advertising ... but nothing like that .. buy your own shirt.

Mr Kern: If I buy my own shirt it will say Legacy, not Nostalrius. Thanks.

[Duronos]

Fairly certain Nostalrius didn't really break any laws per se but why go into a court battle vs the mega company Blizzard, you're gonna have a bad time if you do.

[Eleccybubb]

His twitter encouraged folks to wear Nostalrius T-shirts at Blizzcon at one point. I was left wondering why he just didn't offer them for free for any who wanted one, since he was the profiteer here. He has a business plan .. he needs advertising ... but nothing like that .. buy your own shirt.

Mr Kern: If I buy my own shirt it will say Legacy, not Nostalrius. Thanks.

Kern is just an attention whore at this point. Doesn't want go into being obscure and only known for his shitty failure of an MMO Firefall.

[Tackhisis]

why Blizzard protects a game no longer in circulation

World of Warcraft is still in circulation. You can buy a classic game today in many shops, and every game copy from 2004 is still valid.

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Fairly certain Nostalrius didn't really break any laws per se

Hosting pirated content is breaking the law.

[Edison]

World of Warcraft is still in circulation. You can buy a classic game today in many shops, and every game copy from 2004 is still valid.

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Hosting pirated content is breaking the law.

The classic WoW doesn't exist anymore tho and don't act like it does. It disappeared with Cataclysm, so you can't actually play the vanilla version of the game anymore.

[Eleccybubb]

The classic WoW doesn't exist anymore tho and don't act like it does. It disappeared with Cataclysm, so you can't actually play the vanilla version of the game anymore.

Correct but "World of Warcraft" still exists under their licensing and copyright. Vanilla still exists in that aspect as does every expansion hence why they can shut down any private server they want most of the time. Sad but true.

[Edison]

Correct but "World of Warcraft" still exists under their licensing and copyright. Vanilla still exists in that aspect as does every expansion hence why they can shut down any private server they want most of the time. Sad but true.

the "vanilla world" is cataclysm, while tbc wotlk etc still exists yes. I'm not talking about if private servers should be allowed or if they are against the law or not. Just saying that Vanilla wow as a game doesn't exist anymore.