3 Reasons why this 18-hour race feels flawed

[Deleted]

I care about the world first race(not so much now that Paragon is out of it(THE VIDEOS WILL BE MISSED THE MOST))
but I don't think the vast majority of people care about it anymore.

I'll try to make a structured list of the things I think are very wrong with the way gear progression works right now.

1.War/Thunderforged items
This is the worst system this game has to offer. It broke everything and now it's worse then it's ever been with insane differences in ilvl 850-895 for example.
Giving the option to raiders to spam content 24/7 in hopes of a thunderforged prock is a mistake in my opinion. It's best to have an item lvl ceiling before raids release.
It also broke some of the competition in sites like warcraftlogs/worldoglogs. But I guess that doesn't affect many.

2. Mythic+ releasing with the raids and being spammable 24/7
It should've been released with a lootcap 850 for example in the first week or two. Or better off not released at all for a week or two.
Or it should've had a loot lock. For example if you complete m+2 and get 3 chests you get loot locked for m+2,+3,+4, ...
That way it wouldn't have been mandatory for everyone that wanted to do well in raids to spam them 24/7

3. Legendaries and the way you get them.
I think the legendaries are handled unbelievably poorly. The difference between someone with the proper leg and someone who doesn't have it is huge.
There are 100% useless legendaries. I'd rather not get any(and as intended get reduced chance for another) then get something useless.
I'll just mention the bug that caused people with 1 legendary to have super high chance of getting another, the exact opposite of what blizz intended.


4. Class balance during progress
They even said in an interview they'd do the changes before hc but they did not.
The least they could do after the changes is give the affected classess an AP refund.
The artifact power locked to a weapon. Why not make your gained amount allocate-able to every spec.
Some classess especially pure dps have always had specs that are good on some bossess but not on others.
Changing specs and being able to use them well is a big part of what makes a player good.

Something not directly related to the race but that irritates me is that there is a ton of world quests. The fact that they spawn four times/day is also stupid.
I'm the kind of person that feels forced to do anything that would benefit his performance.
And I did all of them for almost an entire month..
I would've liked it better if you had fewer quests/day with the same total reward or just make them spawn once at reset and be done with them.

Just look at the trivializing of everything.
They pushed the difficulty naming in wod (Flex>norm>hc)(norm>hc>mythic)so that the casual players
can think that they are doing something hard when doing heroic which is actually what normal used to be.
I'm amazed that mythic dungeons are seen by some casual players as something insanely hard just because of their name.
I've even heard of healers getting paid a lot of gold just because they are forced to heal this "hard" content.

[Deleted]

I'm like 99% certain that the legendaries were disabled in Mythic EN for the time being. There are certainly other things that would have made the race a bit flawed but Exorsus wasn't the best geared guild in the world and still won.

Guess the 1% wins this time then, legendaries have been / are useable in all content. Everyone read blizzard's statement saying they intended to disable them for the race and somehow nobody read the new statement retracting the first.

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Yes, yes it is.

Did you not see the final boss fall over in under 3 hours? Ofc the raid was doable without doing mythic+.

[Deleted]

the game is designed to keep the average and even the most top players happy and busy, it does it very well with titan forgeing, artifact power mechanics and mythic+.

Nothing is lost just because the top 100 players didnt get their mythic race month.

[MrExcelion]

I think with the Valor raid we're going to see guilds just not sleeping since its 3 bosses, and maybe the same for any 7 boss raid in the future depending on how it goes, but that's the plan going in

[deadman1]

Did you not see the final boss fall over in under 3 hours? Ofc the raid was doable without doing mythic+.

You know M+ was out for a week before mythic raids opened ... right?

[Zurgasse]

the game is designed to keep the average and even the most top players happy and busy, it does it very well with titan forgeing, artifact power mechanics and mythic+.

Nothing is lost just because the top 100 players didnt get their mythic race month.

Having played in a pretty high level PvE guild, I can assure you that NO-ONE finds titanforging, warforging or random sockets on items to be a "fun" type of content. Random loots means you can never be trylu BiS and also reduces the incentive to have rerolls. Anyways...

[dacoolist]

This is the first raid of the TIER - this isn't the end boss of the TIER.. What, are they going to make the first raid of the tier effing impossible unless you have full 895? Also, just to put this into perspective: 895 is the highest ilvl you can get all the way THROUGH Nighthold.. meaning Trials of valor in BETWEEN Emerald Nightmare is also capped at 895, WITH Nighthold finishing off the tier at 895. So, people that are 880 somehow on wowprogress literally only have probably a month more to go before they are full 895, and sure the stat priority and everything like that could be better (trinkets, who knows), could all be much better in Nighthold, but the fact still stands, This was the easier raid in the tier - it was never meant to be a Heroic Rag experience (That would be MYTHIC Ragnaros today).

IMO, it was supposed to be easy, Blizzard did nothing wrong other than not fixing the damn bug so people could progress on Cenarius except Mother Russia (Although I am super happy MotherRussia DID IT <3 )

[Zurgasse]

This is the first raid of the TIER - this isn't the end boss of the TIER.. What, are they going to make the first raid of the tier effing impossible unless you have full 895? Also, just to put this into perspective: 895 is the highest ilvl you can get all the way THROUGH Nighthold.. meaning Trials of valor in BETWEEN Emerald Nightmare is also capped at 895, WITH Nighthold finishing off the tier at 895. So, people that are 880 somehow on wowprogress literally only have probably a month more to go before they are full 895, and sure the stat priority and everything like that could be better (trinkets, who knows), could all be much better in Nighthold, but the fact still stands, This was the easier raid in the tier - it was never meant to be a Heroic Rag experience (That would be MYTHIC Ragnaros today).

IMO, it was supposed to be easy, Blizzard did nothing wrong other than not fixing the damn bug so people could progress on Cenarius except Mother Russia (Although I am super happy MotherRussia DID IT <3 )

Tbh, I don't really understand why people consider Nighthold to be on the same Tier as Emerald Dream. When you have 4 months between two raids they are de facto a separate tier. The last time we had split raids that were on the same tier was in the beginning of MoP where the release was within one month o eachother. Since Highmaul and BRF, I don't consider split raids with 2 months in between the release to be on the same tier. (Btw ED and NH will even be on a completely separated patch). Calling NH and ED one tier is just blizzard's way of justifying that they release 50% of the raiding content they used to release.

[hydrium]

Better have LW on that lock

Don't remind me, I had to drop Enchanting/Tailoring for LW/BS...it was such a pain, I hated those drums.

[plaits]

I disagree strongly that the world first race is an important part of the game. Maybe a community like MMO-C would have you believe so but the extreme majority of the playerbase likely doesn't know and/or doesn't care about it, I can practically guarantee it.

This isn't a game like League of Legends where you can watch it and see exactly the kind of serious and competitive razor-edge environment it is. Raiding is comprised of co-op PvE encounters and all competition is purely created by the players themselves.

This. I'm in a very large and active guild that runs multiple raid groups. I've heard not a single discussion or even a word from anyone about the world first race. Everyone is just busy organising their own raids and mythic + runs and couldn't care less about what the top guilds are doing. I follow it because I like to watch wow streamers, but I think out of everyone that plays wow people that care about that stuff are in a small minority. I'd say most people are more like my boyfriend, for example, who thinks I'm literally crazy for caring about anything but my own progress.

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Legendaries are super stupid. Our guild got unlucky and we've had little to no Legendaries drop and the ones that did drop weren't ones that increased peoples DPS. I think we have like 8 utility legendaries and 2 DPS ones.

As for Mythic+ I think it rewards too good gear too randomly. Running +2 is still equally as good as +6 because you can randomly get super good gear from +2 and it's a pretty decent chance to get a good piece of gear. So if your aiming for a top spot you feel forced to spam mythic+ dungeons. After you've spammed heroic dungeons before they came out hoping for a legendary that never dropped.

Meh. Exorsus won with a lower overall ilvl than Method and Serenity.

[Yizu]

I think having a 1st tier as an easy raid is one of the reasons why WotLK was successful. You do not want guilds to hit a wall really early in the expansion before they even build a very good roster.

[apelsinjuice]

99.9% of the playerbase dont give a fk or even know about the world first race. Blizzard should spend zero time or consideration about the world first race when they balance things or design the game.

[Nevcairiel]

You know M+ was out for a week before mythic raids opened ... right?

But with loot capped to 850, the same as normal raid - not to mention that they also could've done heroic raids to get 865!

M+ is/was by no means required, its just a faster way to get base level gear. You could do the same with just raiding.
It would be "required" if there would be no alternatives, but there are alternatives. If you feel its "required" because its slightly faster, then thats on you, because thats not the definition of the word.

[Snackwiches]

Maybe Blizzard, like literally 99.95% of the playerbase, decided "who gives a fuck?"

[apples]

i like how OP writes a novella on legendaries and how theyre sooooooooooo OP, how he has data readily available that could prove his point

but rather than making even a modicum of effort, he party lines, says WELL IDK WAT LEGENDARIES ACTUALLY DO BUT YAKNOW THEY COUUUUUUUUUUUUULD BE OP

quality thread

edit: also i LOVE how op discounts the achievements of others because he doesnt think theyre worthy. quality, fkn, thread

[Deleted]

I think having a 1st tier as an easy raid is one of the reasons why WotLK was successful. You do not want guilds to hit a wall really early in the expansion before they even build a very good roster.

This ^


Also, Exorsus killed Xavius with the same ilvl that other guilds were progressing on Ursoc so I don't know where these "omg they got lucky with loot/legendaries, if Serenity/Method had their luck it would be different!" excuses are coming from.

[nowish]

i like how OP writes a novella on legendaries and how theyre sooooooooooo OP, how he has data readily available that could prove his point

but rather than making even a modicum of effort, he party lines, says WELL IDK WAT LEGENDARIES ACTUALLY DO BUT YAKNOW THEY COUUUUUUUUUUUUULD BE OP

quality thread

edit: also i LOVE how op discounts the achievements of others because he doesnt think theyre worthy. quality, fkn, thread

He said the raiding model in Legion seems flawed, never once did he discredit any performance of the ones you are fanboying.
People of equal skill 1 with and 1 without the best legendary , there is obviously gonna be a huge gap and there is no way to close that gap unless u are "lucky" because ucant guarantee a way to get a legendary. You should have been able to choose your first legendary somehow. Would have been a better model, or even better, not have them in the first place.

[apples]

He said the raiding model in Legion seems flawed, never once did he discredit any performance of the ones you are fanboying.
People of equal skill 1 with and 1 without the best legendary , there is obviously gonna be a huge gap and there is no way to close that gap unless u are "lucky" because ucant guarantee a way to get a legendary. You should have been able to choose your first legendary somehow. Would have been a better model, or even better, not have them in the first place.

"In the end, I feel like this progress was not a real one."

progress, meaning, what? exactly?

and im the fanboy

oh mmo-c.

never change.

[deadman1]

But with loot capped to 850, the same as normal raid - not to mention that they also could've done heroic raids to get 865!

M+ is/was by no means required, its just a faster way to get base level gear. You could do the same with just raiding.
It would be "required" if there would be no alternatives, but there are alternatives. If you feel its "required" because its slightly faster, then thats on you, because thats not the definition of the word.

Unless of course you got titanforged ... then it could be higher.

It's required to get higher ilvl gear, and yes that is the definition of the word.

PS - Higher ilvl = more valuable for anyone raiding on the high end. It's fine if you don't want to raid on the high end, but you don't get to dictate what is useful and what isn't if you don't.

[Deleted]

Mythic+ is an alternative to raiding, Mythic raiding shouldn't be balanced around people having to do mythic+ dungeons.

It is not; hence the content was probably easier than intended for most of those in the race.