Unholy DKs Lost & Forgotten?

[Graveworm]

Is it me, or does it seem like Blizzard just forgot about Unholy? I mean don't get me wrong, there are other classes that need more help - but they are addressing them frequently. With Frost getting buffs at this rate my fear is that it will become far superior to Unholy within a couple of patches thus waisting weeks of AP grinding for Unholy. As of right now our niche seems to be Mythic + dungeons. It seems that the biggest part of our problem is mobility. The simplest solution would be to make death grip pull us to targets that aren't effected by CC. I'm convinced if we flood the forums with tears like the DH's did we might get some changes.

[Baddok21]

Is it me, or does it seem like Blizzard just forgot about Unholy? I mean don't get me wrong, there are other classes that need more help - but they are addressing them frequently. With Frost getting buffs at this rate my fear is that it will become far superior to Unholy within a couple of patches thus waisting weeks of AP grinding for Unholy. As of right now our niche seems to be Mythic + dungeons. It seems that the biggest part of our problem is mobility. The simplest solution would be to make death grip pull us to targets that aren't effected by CC. I'm convinced if we flood the forums with tears like the DH's did we might get some changes.

Technically no other class needs more help than DKS right now, you are the worst at everything on all 3 specs.

I dont even want Unholy to be buffed, feels more like the overinflated DPS overall and it all should be brought down. We are in the realm of Legendary ring burst doing bosses while its current.

a huge reason for this is the M+ farming i dont think they intended for people to walk into Mythic on release with 865+

[Deleted]

Technically no other class needs more help than DKS right now, you are the worst or just mediocre at best on all 3 specs

brm is still worst tank.
ANd parses say worst dps are sub and frost(mage).

[Clayney0]

brm is still worst tank.
ANd parses say worst dps are sub and frost(mage).

Both Sub and Frostmage have top raiding specs, Unholy and Frost DK are still pretty bad compared to other classes, and while you're right that BRM is worst tank, Windwalker and Mistweaver are strong enough to justify a raid spot.
As a raid leader, why would you bring a DPS DK if you can bring another player on a different class who plays as well or deals even 15% less damage, if it's still better than DK?

Oh, and by the way Sub will perform better than Outlaw with higher itemlvl, starting at around 870.

[farza]

brm is still worst tank.
ANd parses say worst dps are sub and frost(mage).

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#sample=7 check this.
I have a bad feeling about this.
Slowest and weakest?
Lol

[Deleted]

Its ok us being snail slow as we hit harder than any other clasd when we're on target.

Oh wait....bottom 3dps again...same as always...

[Khain]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#sample=7 check this.
I have a bad feeling about this.
Slowest and weakest?
Lol

seriously not enough mythic kills to have a good sample, UH feels really strong, in the heroic graphics it's a solid middle of the pack.

[farza]

seriously not enough mythic kills to have a good sample, UH feels really strong, in the heroic graphics it's a solid middle of the pack.

We are in the middle of ALL specs currently
Hope u r right.

[goriander]

seriously not enough mythic kills to have a good sample, UH feels really strong, in the heroic graphics it's a solid middle of the pack.

Middle of the pack (in HC) out of all specs=/=really strong. Every class except DK has at least one spec higher up than unholy and on the 95th percentile both DK dps specs are in the bottom 8 so even at high end ilvl and with our legendary wrists we don't do competitive dps.

DK is extremely weak right now and even if all our damage dealing abilities got buffed by 15% we wouldn't be in a great spot. The difference between DK and all the other classes becomes even more apparent in mythic because of our mobility issues.

[Deleted]

The focus right now seems to be to make everyone deal the same damage, no matter your survivability/mobility and CC.

[goriander]

The focus right now seems to be to make everyone deal the same damage, no matter your survivability/mobility and CC.

If this is true then why are both unholy and frost bottom 5 in sims?

[Saltysquidoon]

seriously not enough mythic kills to have a good sample, UH feels really strong, in the heroic graphics it's a solid middle of the pack.

Look at the stats as you go up the rankings of heroic and mythic. At 75% we're the middle but a 75% parse is nothing I have no parses below 85, at 90% we drop and then 99% we drop again then at mythic we're dumpster tier that suggest to me as people scale into mythics we will become nonviable.

My issue is right now on the whole we are the weakest class we should be above average at something.

[bubbadubba]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#sample=7 check this.
I have a bad feeling about this.
Slowest and weakest?
Lol

If you are looking at over powered in the statistics you do have to look at all the percentiles, good unholy DK's are still doing okay but okay DK's are lagging behind. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...e=7&dataset=99 for the 99% which is the top players.

- - - Updated - - -

Look at the stats as you go up the rankings of heroic and mythic. At 75% we're the middle but a 75% parse is nothing I have no parses below 85, at 90% we drop and then 99% we drop again then at mythic we're dumpster tier that suggest to me as people scale into mythics we will become nonviable.

My issue is right now on the whole we are the weakest class we should be above average at something.

Unholy doesn't drop off at the 99% on mythic, they actually are middle of the pack.

[Balvan]

I see this popular opinion that both DK dps specs suck. While it might be true for frost, can someone tell me why almost all top mythic guilds bring at least one uh dk for their mythic progress? Excorsus for example had 2 uh dks for Xavius and at least one for every other fight. I checked all other top 10 guilds and almost all had at least one uh dk.

So if uh is really one of the worst specs, why top guilds take them? Are they stupid? Dont tell me its for deathgrip and battleres please.

[goriander]

If you are looking at over powered in the statistics you do have to look at all the percentiles, good unholy DK's are still doing okay but okay DK's are lagging behind. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...e=7&dataset=99 for the 99% which is the top players.

- - - Updated - - -



Unholy doesn't drop off at the 99% on mythic, they actually are middle of the pack.

If you want any meaningful statistics you shouldn't be looking at the 99th percentile. Unholy is one of the most rng heavy specs in the game and that's why they're a bit higher in dps compared to other specs on the 99th percentile than in reality. There's just more variation in dps than some other specs but you can't draw any conclusions from that alone. If you want to compare classes with good gear and top players you should be looking at the 95th percentile.

[Deleted]

My guild is a 3 day per week guild, and we are 1/7 mythic. Me and our other DK are competitively mid ranged in terms of damage, and I think that's ok. If we had top players then yes, based on logs, dk's would be rock bottom, but the simple fact as that we are capable of doing enough dps to warrant our raid spots.

We won't be top 50, or top 100, out of choice. If we raided 24/7 we could probably be up there since we are fairly efficient, but we're happy to take it slower.

If you're not aiming for top 10 and you can do enough dps, then to a certain degree [within the limitation of melee vs ranged], bring the player.

[Acidbaron]

If you want any meaningful statistics you shouldn't be looking at the 99th percentile. Unholy is one of the most rng heavy specs in the game and that's why they're a bit higher in dps compared to other specs on the 99th percentile than in reality. There's just more variation in dps than some other specs but you can't draw any conclusions from that alone. If you want to compare classes with good gear and top players you should be looking at the 95th percentile.

A good summary, a lot of our damage depends on how many wounds we burst, how many wounds get applied and how often we get SoW from DC when we can use it to spam SS. since fishing for it is an actual damage increase.

I have parsed anywhere between 60 and 85% in heroic raids so far (can't get much higher at this ilevel do parse high for my ilevel), i do not own any legendary and i sit at 852 ilevel mostly because i'm using lower ilevel rings and trinkets that are better itemized. I feel i'm doing relatively well and i find the spec fun as there's room for personal improvement in its mechanics. I will worry once we drop so low that we are a handicap for the raid group but i don't see that happening i only see our damage going up the further our artifact progresses as stated before the deathcoil fishing will make up a lot once you get double doom, which i don't own yet.

[raionyx]

A good summary, a lot of our damage depends on how many wounds we burst, how many wounds get applied and how often we get SoW from DC when we can use it to spam SS. since fishing for it is an actual damage increase.

I have parsed anywhere between 60 and 85% in heroic raids so far (can't get much higher at this ilevel do parse high for my ilevel), i do not own any legendary and i sit at 852 ilevel mostly because i'm using lower ilevel rings and trinkets that are better itemized. I feel i'm doing relatively well and i find the spec fun as there's room for personal improvement in its mechanics. I will worry once we drop so low that we are a handicap for the raid group but i don't see that happening i only see our damage going up the further our artifact progresses as stated before the deathcoil fishing will make up a lot once you get double doom, which i don't own yet.

I agree completely here. I usually sit somewhere in the 70's for percentile on most bosses for Heroic (Cenarius and Elerethe not withstanding). I recently reached Double Doom and it helps fill the gaps in your downtime where you may not have enough RP for a Death Coil, or Wounds for a Scourge Strike. However, on the bosses I do well on, I am competitive, usually in the top 5 DPS in my raid group, often the top 3. Now, I can't say whether that makes me very good, or that makes some of the folks I raid with bad, but I'm not here to speak to that.

That said, at this POINT, nobody has a maxed artifact; there are some considerable damage increases left in the final 10 points that are ahead of me, including an at least 3% overall DPS increase (The 21% damage to Festering Strike, which comprises about 10-11% of my overall output on average), Runic Tattoos, which will help fill more gaps, and the passive Death Coil damage, which may not be much in the overall scheme, but is something.

[Baddok21]

A reasonable conclusion was

Unholy was justifiably viable for Mythic raiding, prior to the tuesday buffs why wouldnt you bring a Unholy DK when it was perfectly competitive with the other Melee spots your raid was going to bring.

add to the the fact 53% of the top 200 Unholy Dks had there legendary (prior to this tuesday leg drop rate hidden buff) that semented your choice for the raid.

M+ runs have changed the way people do split runs.... because they are forever repeatable your not actually split running anything (other than pulling in brand new 110s to start the key farm) so you look at the fights which u tested on BETA you look at your classes overall raid performance you pick what your raid needs in terms of utility and then you M+ farm the hell out of it till hes geared and hopefully get a leg.

Split runs in the past were different because... you only could acquire so many coins in a week, you could only receive loot from that source so many times in a week.

they did legendary farm runs than the moved into M+ gear farm/AP runs.

Its actually impressive to see how well locks did immediately after the buffs, not because there class is capable but because so many took a chance in keeping one ready "in case" of significant buffs a week prior to Mythic release.

[Deleted]

Its not a lot though and other classes wil get similar gains when they max.

Fix to the army ability was decent but nowhere near enough to get us out of the bottom 3.

Nerf thr outliers and buff the bottom specs bliz and fucking soon. Ive pretty much had enough of being nesr bottom evey expansion since icc.

Could be worsr though - i could be frost