No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[-Joker-]

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For the record, I cannot raid on a serious schedule because I have a child who doesn't consistently sleep well and I also have a lot of work to catch up on at night some weeks (but some weeks none at all). So I do have a decent amount of free time, but it's not on a consistent schedule and some nights I'd need to AFK a lot, other times not at all, and I can't predict that at all. So it really only leaves me able to do casual things where having to suddenly AFK, or not log in at all one particular night, won't ruin anything.

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We all have real life responsibilities in one way or another. I am simply stating, if having flight is your preferred playstyle, you are better off not buying or subbing until it is added. At this point, you are not adding anything constructive, but simply repeating the same tired excuses of why you can't do it, and 7M other people can. I love flight too, but not enough to ruin my experience.

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TBC had flight at max level. Thanks for trolling..

Wasn't trolling. We obviously got flight... at max level... and at a great expense. Wrath was almost max level and also at great expense. My point was, Legion is no different from either expac, save for the delay of flight.

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TBC was THE expansion that brought us flying, get your facts straight man.

See above.

[Deleted]

At great expense? You're definetly crazy man

[CaptainV]

I literally cant see for the life of me why blizzard cant make a compramise everyone is happy with.

Lets go with this:

Broken Shores Pathfinder part 1, unlocks flying for -every- leveling zone, excluding Suremar, and the Broken Shores/Eye of Azshara world zones.

Attempting to fly in Suremar causes the Nightborne to use some kinda Anti-Air magic which causes periodic damage that pretty much destroys you, the same goes for the other two, shores and eye.

Pathfinder part 2 could include attunement to this magic making you immune to it and letting you fly in end game zones. This -honestly- is the best compramise you can have, because:
1. The people complaining that flying ruins the immersion can shut up, they can still have no flying in end game, while everyone trying to level alts can be content to have a more streamlined and relaxed experience.
2. Flying isnt the issue, flying is the solution, the issue is a lack of imagination, flying could become ideal end game, attuning yourself to it so you can -reach- floating isles, or areas of the map that are onpurposley warded off without flying.
3. No flying just isnt immersive, or fun, once you introduce a feature everyone loves, removing it does nothing to enhance the experience, only weaken it and upset the playerbase.
4. Again, end game zones, vertical progression, attuned areas that cant be accessed until later can still be added to fix the flying issue with people that still hate it.

So all I see is excuses by the no fly team to demand content be grounded as much as possible because it ruins immersion, I dont see any justification for why that makes any real sense at all.

Considering TBC had entire areas you could not -access- without flying, as did Wrath.

[Deleted]

At great expense? You're definetly crazy man

What great expense? I was farming for months to get my epic riding skill on my main character, and also got my basic mount later than right away at level 40 because I was not good in making money then (being a newbie). Getting basic flying was not a big deal when my main got to 70, and also not for the following 2 alts. In mid-TBC, I have switched to a different main, different server, different faction, starting from scratch, and could afford regular flying as soon as I was 70. Granted, farming for epic flying took me some time, but I did it - multiple times for 5 characters which I then had at max level (3 before server/faction switch, 2 afterwards).

(Side remark: I even got Netherray mounts on all these characters and Netherdrakes for 2 of them (old main + new main), and even invested time and energy in completing all Netherwing races back then. Flying is very important to me.)

You could get flight as soon as you got to 70 in TBC, and it got even better later in the expansion, when it was buffed to the current speed of basic flying from 60% speed and even got cheaper later on.

You are spreading misinformation here.

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I literally cant see for the life of me why blizzard cant make a compramise everyone is happy with.

Lets go with this:

Broken Shores Pathfinder part 1, unlocks flying for -every- leveling zone, excluding Suremar, and the Broken Shores/Eye of Azshara world zones.

Attempting to fly in Suremar causes the Nightborne to use some kinda Anti-Air magic which causes periodic damage that pretty much destroys you, the same goes for the other two, shores and eye.

Pathfinder part 2 could include attunement to this magic making you immune to it and letting you fly in end game zones. This -honestly- is the best compramise you can have, because:
1. The people complaining that flying ruins the immersion can shut up, they can still have no flying in end game, while everyone trying to level alts can be content to have a more streamlined and relaxed experience.
2. Flying isnt the issue, flying is the solution, the issue is a lack of imagination, flying could become ideal end game, attuning yourself to it so you can -reach- floating isles, or areas of the map that are onpurposley warded off without flying.
3. No flying just isnt immersive, or fun, once you introduce a feature everyone loves, removing it does nothing to enhance the experience, only weaken it and upset the playerbase.
4. Again, end game zones, vertical progression, attuned areas that cant be accessed until later can still be added to fix the flying issue with people that still hate it.

So all I see is excuses by the no fly team to demand content be grounded as much as possible because it ruins immersion, I dont see any justification for why that makes any real sense at all.

Considering TBC had entire areas you could not -access- without flying, as did Wrath.

This sounds like a good compromise for me, with some small adjustments:

Since PF I excludes flying in Suramar, then it should also exclude relevant Suramar achievements. These should be in PF II which finally would allow flying there. Or include the basic questline and explorer in PF I and allow flying in Suramar, but not in the City (because the shield prevents entering while flying and lifting up while under the shield).

Also, flying should be available immediately after the respective part is finished. Not at some undefined point in the future.

[Connll]

Give some examples of these lies and misdirections for Legion flying?
Ah lemme guess, that we don't know what/when part 2 is because it's not set in stone yet and the surrounding patch is still in development... those deceitful bastards!

You answered you own question... in your own intellectually dishonest way.

Ah of course, the lack of an uproar is proof of an uproar. Strange then that you can find the occasional thread related to flying/pathfinder here and there every half-dozen pages. But I guess they slipped through the cracks.

No, the fact that threads complaining about flight being deleted is proof of an uproar. Try again, I guess?

Every time Blizzard has tried to silence an issue it has only become amplified many times over.

True. The issue of Flight will tend to get louder and louder in the coming weeks/months.

They've talked about it enough, they've made their plans for flight in Legion as clear as needed for the community, they consider the topic closed.

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WoW, man.

Try harder next time?

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Firstly do you have any proof that it was people unsubbiing that caused Blizz to revert to "flight eventually" in WoD?

How many times I have answered this question to you personally? How many times others have answered this question to you personally?

Ask your physician for a medicine for memory.

Secondly, you're just showing that people were largely okay with "flight eventually" which is why we're getting it in Legion.

Go on, keep it up. It might take a while in order to take the insane ramblings out of your system.

This is quite beautiful. Blizzard aren't discussing their future plans because any changes they make will be misinterpreted as "lies," "misdirection" and "disingenuousness." The first part of this quote illustrates this problem yet the second part still tries to spin it into a conspiracy theory.

Except that their approeach to WoD HAS been proved as " lies, misdirection and disingenuouesness". Try again.

You misunderstand, the small number of people at the "no fly no buy" crowd who feel that WoW should have flight as soon as possible and needs it to make the world content quicker/easier/more convenient.

Strawman fallacy. Try again.

The feedback that got Blizzard to revert from "no flight ever" came from people who were happy/content/ambivalent about "flight eventually" and seem satisfied with Pathfinder as a compromise.

The feedback was in response to the no-flight ever-again.
It came from people who were NOT happy with no-flight.
Patch finder is not a compromise. Try again.

They've avoided WoD's mistakes by making sure that world and dungeon content has plenty to do that will advance your character.

Keep it up. The insane ramblimgs seem to be pretty pent up. Get them out of your system.

Things that aren't to your particular liking clearly aren't considered mistakes in this case. Lots of people call LFR a mistake but Blizzard keep it because they feel overall the game is better for it.

Go on. You should start feeling better now.

The time spent travelling (which really isn't that difficult) is part of the questing. If the only relevant parts of WoW (or World of Warcraft in case you forgot) were the bits where you press buttons to do damage they could replace all the content with target dummies that dispense loot.

Another strawman. Try again.

Citation needed for how you know what "the players" want. BTW the "vast majority" have been quitting the game since forever, don't pretend that WoW only knew growth and had 100% player retention before flight was removed.

Devs take a "final" decision about a feature;
Players/customers voice their disapproval;
"final" decision is reversed in 2 weeks;

And then some people with remarkable intellectual honesty say it wasn´t a majority of the (remaining?) players/customers that prompted that change.

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Seems legit.

Infracted: Disagreements and differing opinions are not a reason to repeatedly suggest someone has mental problems. Post constructively please. {MoanaLisa}

[Mafic]

I have some more, but this problem definitively gets worse without flight. Discovering the way through a maze is only fun at the first time. If you have to repeat this again and again because you have to repeat the quest objective at max level again and again for world quests, this is not fun anymore, even if you can perfectly remember which way to go. Devs should finally wake up.

For most people the maze like structure and tiny zones of Broken Isles breaks immersion. For me, the fact I know High Mountain is a fantasy of a mountain and not really realistic just breaks the immersion but that is a tiny complaint from my view.

Flying really allows you to see how the zones are connected and the transitions. This is why with flying available in the alpha due to a bug players figured out the transitions between the Broken Isle zones were awkward at best. Making small zones maze-like and increasing mob density makes the zones boring at level cap and largely irrelevant for ground travvel which only increases the need for flying mounts. The flying whistle was added late in the testing cycle as an open admission that Broken Isles is not friendly to ground travel.

[Ordinator]

I must be an expert maze navigator because I have literally zero issue finding my way around the zones.

[MoanaLisa]

This is a topic which people have had differing opinions about for some years now. There have been past warnings about calling others out as trolls or suggesting that a difference of opinion is akin to some mental disease. This will no longer be tolerated in this thread. Please post constructively and to the topic. The less time spent thinking up ways to insult those with which you disagree, the better. If any of this is not clear, please send me a private message or take it up with a global moderator. Thanks.

[Evilfish]

Right, the fun is over, I'm done exploring. Now it's just annoying.

[satimy]

So you can't fly because of reasons but it's perfectly acceptable to flight whistle and glider everywhere. Not having flying in the game just seems like a stubborn ego move at this point as they've already trivialized ground travel

[Ordinator]

So you can't fly because of reasons but it's perfectly acceptable to flight whistle and glider everywhere. Not having flying in the game just seems like a stubborn ego move at this point as they've already trivialized ground travel

Can you tell me at what point in your head you were able to equate unlimited flying with things that have a cooldown and dont ever remove you entirely from the game? I'm still trying to understand how pro flyers see those two things as one of the same.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

So you can't fly because of reasons but it's perfectly acceptable to flight whistle and glider everywhere. Not having flying in the game just seems like a stubborn ego move at this point as they've already trivialized ground travel

It's a video game and that's a video game mechanic. I mean why can't you mount in a cave? Or fly in a house? Merely a game mechanic just like not having flying in the current content is. Rationalizing game mechanics and reality is just wheels spinning in the dirt. Pathfinder will give us flight and account wide (if not mistaken?). That is simply the game mechanic that blizzard has made the choice to use. Some agree and others disagree. Seems like a pretty good middle ground in the debate as long as it lands somewhere mid expansion and not during the content drought end like it did in WoD.

[satimy]

Can you tell me at what point in your head you were able to equate unlimited flying with things that have a cooldown and dont ever remove you entirely from the game? I'm still trying to understand how pro flyers see those two things as one of the same.

If they changed the whistle cd to an hour I bet you would see a drastic reduction in world quests. People simply don't want to run around these terribly designed zones. You also just ignore and run past mobs that Aggro you on the short run to the quests. I really don't see the purpose of not having flight with gliders and the whistle.

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It's a video game and that's a video game mechanic. I mean why can't you mount in a cave? Or fly in a house? Merely a game mechanic just like not having flying in the current content is. Rationalizing game mechanics and reality is just wheels spinning in the dirt. Pathfinder will give us flight and account wide (if not mistaken?). That is simply the game mechanic that blizzard has made the choice to use. Some agree and others disagree. Seems like a pretty good middle ground in the debate as long as it lands somewhere mid expansion and not during the content drought end like it did in WoD.

Sorry but something being a compromise doesn't automatically make it a good idea in the first place.

You have never been able to mount in caves

You were able to fly for 10 years

False equivalency brah

[Ordinator]

If they changed the whistle cd to an hour I bet you would see a drastic reduction in world quests. People simply don't want to run around these terribly designed zones. You also just ignore and run past mobs that Aggro you on the short run to the quests. I really don't see the purpose of not having flight with gliders and the whistle.

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Sorry but something being a compromise doesn't automatically make it a good idea in the first place.

You have never been able to mount in caves

You were able to fly for 10 years

False equivalency brah

Don't try to prove a speculation with more speculation. You can't possibly tell us what people want.

Also, it looks kind of silly to try and call out a fallacy directly after an argument that amounts to "but its always been that way".

Appeal to tradition fallacy brah

[satimy]

Don't try to prove a speculation with more speculation. You can't possibly tell us what people want.

Also, it looks kind of silly to try and call out a fallacy directly after an argument that amounts to "but its always been that way".

Appeal to tradition fallacy brah

Don't be salty because your opinion is irrational and supported by a small minority

[clevin]

I don't think there are any "no fly" people as you put it. I'm certainly going to fly and enjoy it when the final part of Pathfinder is released, but at the moment I'm enjoying the content that has been designed to be tackled from the ground.

And you could be enjoying that while *I* fly. But you and others like you don't have the discipline to say "You know... I like ground travel and how it feels so I'll do that instead of flying."

[Mafic]

If they changed the whistle cd to an hour I bet you would see a drastic reduction in world quests. People simply don't want to run around these terribly designed zones. You also just ignore and run past mobs that Aggro you on the short run to the quests. I really don't see the purpose of not having flight with gliders and the whistle.

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Sorry but something being a compromise doesn't automatically make it a good idea in the first place.

You have never been able to mount in caves

You were able to fly for 10 years

False equivalency brah

Even with the flight whistle you are seeing a reduction in people going out in the world to do world quests and we just passed the one month mark yesterday.

1. Gear upgrades are stalling up around ilevel 840-850 for most players. Thus, most players now ignore the majority of quests unless there is a potential upgrade.

2. The increased artifact power needed for next level is sinking in that traveling to a quest for more time it takes to complete said quest is not time efficient. Also, as the higher raid focused guilds figured out...you farm instanced content like mythic +++ to have a chance at legendaries/titanforged than the 850ilevel soft ceiling.

3. Replay value of alts goes down significantly.

There is a reason why when flight was added back into WoD replay of alts surged. This is also why players were able to even work on professions, archaeology, etc. Before flight was added, the economy was stagnant even with the garrison spitting out free mats and gold. This is, because it was a predictable amount that Blizzard could throttle and control. But this control led to economies becoming static and favored those that fliped mat prices over the common players that just wanted to buy goods. Inflated gold made it easier for the common player to ignore that but it is hard to do so in Legion. This is why mat prices will worsen over time unless Blizz intervenes or adds flying to the game for gathering professions to flourish once more.

As I argued in the other thread flight adds replay value in being able to do world quests through the zones and for alts that are trying to upgrade to the bare minimum of ilevel 840-850.

Without flying and catch up mechanics, Legion has less replay value than WoD. WoD had garrisons to hide behind to help alts catch up and Tanaan was an entire patch dedicated to catch up for players ala Timeless Isle.

If Blizzard was smart they would target patch 6.2 to bring back bored players with flying mount introduced to the Broken Isles and alt catch up mechanics. That would breathe a second wind life into the game as Legion is probably already on a similar down slope as WoD if it maintains this course.

Patch 7.1 is more instanced content, and lets be honest...the Broken Isles will be a deserted landscape even if they try to force CRZ to make it seem "crowded". Gimmicks like CRZ, flight whistle, and using your favorite flying mounts for flight paths are all short term psychological tricks Blizz is hoping can buy them time for 7.1. The truth is that like in WoD, three months out is when the illusion of these tricks fall apart.

3 months into WoD alpha = Players figure out that WoD Apexis Quests have no redeeming value and are located at the corners of the maps.
3 months into WoD = Same conclusion. Except much worse in that players also figure out that rep grinding has come back but in a worse form.

3 months of Legion alpha = Players were throwing themselves off of High mountain and rezzing.
1 month of Legion live client = Players still throw themselves to death and rez (eg Warlocks) to avoid traveling around the maze that is High Mountain.

2 more months and players will be disgruntled with no flying in an outdated zone like Broken Isles. And when the casual players learn that patch 7.1 does not have flying? Grab the popcorn, because I, Mafic, has seen this movie before.

*Check that noise* as my Orc friends say.

[tikcol]

we should be able to fly everywhere. EVERYWHERE.

[Mafic]

The massive no flying threads in WoD started when patch 6.1 was released and no signs of flying. Since 7.1 is about 2-3 months out (maybe sooner with a Nov release?) and that is when players start to experience burn out with a game I suspect that we will see a similar situation arise for Legion.

I was caught of guard though seeing massive flying threads on the Legion official forums the last few weeks as they came a lot sooner than I anticipated though. I have to admit that more people are more cautious about how this unfolds.

Patch 7.1 comes out with more instanced content and no flying and it sends a massive shock to players in terms of psychological effects. It tells the players that WoW will focus on instanced content and ignore world content. From a persuasion point of view that is a big mistake, but I don't expect game devs to understand persuasion techniques. But at least understand there is a huge, huge player base that does not raid or do instanced content.

[Thimagryn]

And asking for it to improve instead of being shoved under the rug and made worse? Totally unrealistic and unreasonable! It's not like every other feature people wanted improved got attention from Blizzard......oh..wait. yes it did. :/

I do think Blizzard is fairly reasonable when it comes to feedback, but they also stick to their guns when they have a specific design or vision. When it comes to flight, they see it as an obstacle that they have had to design around since its implementation. It's something they actively don't want to go back to, otherwise they're back to designing larger scale maps and resigning to exploitable quest mechanics. We both know this.

When it comes to wanting to improve flight, there's really nothing to discuss here. It's a shifting of goalposts that will satisfy one group and infuriate another. This is indicative by ANY change done to the game. Not necessarily saying it'd be any for the worse, and it might actually be better than what we have now, but it has to satisfy the underlying 'don't interfere with world/quest content pacing' vision that Blizzard has set out so far. I personally believe it is unreasonable to try and get Blizzard to change that design philosophy just to bring forward a travel feature; one that will be added eventually anyways. It's not me defending Blizzard, it's me laying down the most realistic situation at hand.

There is nothing wrong with asking Blizzard to return to Vanilla, or remove LFR, or remove Cross Realms, or stop the year-long content deadzones. It doesn't mean that any of these things will happen just because a lot of people all want the same thing. It's one thing to make suggestions, and it's another to understand how applicable they are to Blizzard's forward momentum.