[Guardian] Stat Weight

[Karinaku]

[secretly rooting for him to be miraculously correct as I main boomkin for raids...]

Don't hold your breath tho, while haste is good and rage regen is vital - You can easily keep up minimum 2 stacks of Ironfur and sometimes 5 stacks with good RNG and proper use of Bristling Fur once you get your second golden trait.

[Sounder]

Sounder: should I wear 860 leather with haste/crit over 855 leather with versatility/mastery?

Thread: No because Armor>all.

Sounder: Wait what?

[Odengard]

I see a lot of clueless people in this thread.

My opinion: Haste> ALL. Why? Because haste literally increases your rage generation and you can never have too much. Being able to keep 3x Ironfur OR 2x Ironfur + Mark of Ursol makes you literally invincible.

My armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...balus/advanced

On single target, Chrono Shard has ~20% uptime, while Bloodthistry Instinct has over 30%. When both are up, my frenzied regen CD goes to 16 seconds, yes the haste procs just cut off the remaining seconds and i'm able to spam it... the dream. I also survive well in Mythic + dungeons when everyone dies, they run back, i'm still there.

Why i think people can't play a haste based built is because you need to whack-a-mole like crazy, you get fast cd on thrash + mangle + faster mangle procs from the lowered GCD and it's quite hard to not waste procs and to prio which ability you will spend your next for ex. 3 GCD in, as everything changes FAST.

Proper math: no amount of versatility or mastery will passively mitigate ~70% phisical damage and 30% magical. Just imagine you're keeping 2x Ironfur + 1 Mark of Ursol up at all times in heavy phisical + magical fights. Just for 30% magical you would need an equivalent of 60% versa... see my point?

This post gave me cancer.

[Cannibalus]

Your post makes it sound like without haste you cannot use Ironfur/Mark at all which couldn't be farther from the truth.

I didn't say "at al"... read properly, i said 2x Ironfur + 1 Mark of Ursol all the time.

- - - Updated - - -

This post gave me cancer.

Sorry for your newly acquired medical condition. Hope it's not brain cancer otherwise the moments where you forget to breathe when trying to do complicated actions such as walk faster might happen more often.

If you decide to write such a stupid comment, make sure to explain why you think about it the way you do.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

[secretly rooting for him to be miraculously correct as I main boomkin for raids...]

Sorry to burst your bubble. He's wrong. In fact haste is actually lower than crit once you get gory fur.
I'm passively keeping up 3 ironfurs now, spiking at 4 if my GG procs often. More rage gen is not necessary at this point until they nerf GG (7.1)

[Alvito]

I think its already outdated sadly enough... Because the priority is not even right

Well it is from Noxxic so it was wrong the instant they posted it. People really need to stop going to that cesspit of the internet.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Sounder: should I wear 860 leather with haste/crit over 855 leather with versatility/mastery?

Thread: No because Armor>all.

Sounder: Wait what?

In my simmed weights armor is worth 40 points. vers is worth 2.7 mastery 2.6. The others are around 1.5.
So unless you win 20 times as much good stats as you lose armor. Armor wins.

[Odengard]

Well it is from Noxxic so it was wrong the instant they posted it. People really need to stop going to that cesspit of the internet.

I agree. Start hang on theroycrafting sites, discords etc!

- - - Updated - - -

I didn't say "at al"... read properly, i said 2x Ironfur + 1 Mark of Ursol all the time.

- - - Updated - - -



Sorry for your newly acquired medical condition. Hope it's not brain cancer otherwise the moments where you forget to breathe when trying to do complicated actions such as walk faster might happen more often.

If you decide to write such a stupid comment, make sure to explain why you think about it the way you do.

If you wouldn't be so condescending from the beginning I might have had a better answer for you.

[GT4]

I didn't say "at al"... read properly, i said 2x Ironfur + 1 Mark of Ursol all the time.

If you're not capable of understanding simple English sentences - as is clearly the case here - you should refrain from posting condescending stuff like that. It makes you look even more stupid than your previous post already did to begin with.

Edit: By the way, what you call "proper math" is an insult to mathematics so please refrain from calling it like that.

As for the topic:

You cannot realistically assign universal stat weights to tank stats because a tank's performance cannot be measured in a single stat such as DPS. Some stats are better for damage mitigation (so less healing is required in total), some are better for EHP (to prevent dying to spike damage/make healing you easier), some are better for DPS (for encounters where incoming damage is negligible compared to the DPS check), etc.

While mastery/versatility tend to be generally favorable compared to crit/haste because they perform better in most aspects, it gets more complicated than that when comparing items with a different item level. Armor differences are typically minimal so for damage mitigation a mastery/versatility item with a lower item level can still be better than a crit/haste one with a higher item level. At the same time, the higher one will also come with higher stamina which can result in higher EHP as well as higher agility which will typically result in higher DPS.

Note: I'm counting mastery as damage mitigation here since having x % more HP and taking x % more healing is essentially the same as multiplying damage taken by 1 / (1 + x/100).

[Cannibalus]

If you're not capable of understanding simple English sentences - as is clearly the case here - you should refrain from posting condescending stuff like that. It makes you look even more stupid than your previous post already did to begin with.

Edit: By the way, what you call "proper math" is an insult to mathematics so please refrain from calling it like that.

As for the topic:

You cannot realistically assign universal stat weights to tank stats because a tank's performance cannot be measured in a single stat such as DPS. Some stats are better for damage mitigation (so less healing is required in total), some are better for EHP (to prevent dying to spike damage/make healing you easier), some are better for DPS (for encounters where incoming damage is negligible compared to the DPS check), etc.

While mastery/versatility tend to be generally favorable compared to crit/haste because they perform better in most aspects, it gets more complicated than that when comparing items with a different item level. Armor differences are typically minimal so for damage mitigation a mastery/versatility item with a lower item level can still be better than a crit/haste one with a higher item level. At the same time, the higher one will also come with higher stamina which can result in higher EHP as well as higher agility which will typically result in higher DPS.

Note: I'm counting mastery as damage mitigation here since having x % more HP and taking x % more healing is essentially the same as multiplying damage taken by 1 / (1 + x/100).

Right now, guardian druids' performace is strictly independent to rage generation. Whoever thinks otherwise and imagines that we are a "wall of meat" that just stays there with 1 stack on Ironfur and is reliant on passive damage reduction is a moron, and that's not condescending, it's the truth. In the case in which you are tanking mythic, i wish you good luck and i can only giggle at the thought where you just wipe the raid a few times, and your raidleader might bench you "cuz bear doesn't look great on this fight, let's get the (ex.) warrior in", when in the end it is your fault

Again let's list the categories you have mentioned:

- DPS: maybe on farm, not right now, we all know crit is best for that yadda yadda catweave.
- Health pool: i guess u meant stamina + mastery here, so highest ilvl with mastery on it wins. Here i tend to agree, IF there is (approximately) a 5-10 ilvl difference, for example between a 870 ilvl item with mastery and versa and an 860 ilvl item with crit and haste, the first one wins by miles. But if there is an 870 ilvl item with mastery and versa and an 860 item with mastery and haste, i would take the second one.
- Passive damage mitigation: both mastery and versa are weak right now, maybe in a patch or two we will be able to facetank mythic bosses with active mitigation feeling needed only at times or none at all, because right now we just die.

[GT4]

Right now, guardian druids' performace is strictly independent to rage generation. Whoever thinks otherwise and imagines that we are a "wall of meat" that just stays there with 1 stack on Ironfur and is reliant on passive damage reduction is a moron, and that's not condescending, it's the truth. In the case in which you are tanking mythic, i wish you good luck and i can only giggle at the thought where you just wipe the raid a few times, and your raidleader might bench you "cuz bear doesn't look great on this fight, let's get the (ex.) warrior in", when in the end it is your fault

A lot of the words you're using don't mean what you believe they mean. Either that or you're contradicting yourself in two consecutive sentences. Aside from that, you're just rambling on while still not even understanding my points in the least. You're still going by the same factually wrong assertion that low haste means you cannot keep more than one stack of ironfur up.

Again let's list the categories you have mentioned:

- DPS: maybe on farm, not right now, we all know crit is best for that yadda yadda catweave.
- Health pool: i guess u meant stamina + mastery here, so highest ilvl with mastery on it wins. Here i tend to agree, IF there is (approximately) a 5-10 ilvl difference, for example between a 870 ilvl item with mastery and versa and an 860 ilvl item with crit and haste, the first one wins by miles. But if there is an 870 ilvl item with mastery and versa and an 860 item with mastery and haste, i would take the second one.
- Passive damage mitigation: both mastery and versa are weak right now, maybe in a patch or two we will be able to facetank mythic bosses with active mitigation feeling needed only at times or none at all, because right now we just die.

I'll repeat myself for the third time: You're still going by the same factually wrong assertion that low haste means you cannot keep more than one stack of ironfur up.

[Cannibalus]

A lot of the words you're using don't mean what you believe they mean. Either that or you're contradicting yourself in two consecutive sentences. Aside from that, you're just rambling on while still not even understanding my points in the least. You're still going by the same factually wrong assertion that low haste means you cannot keep more than one stack of ironfur up.



I'll repeat myself for the third time: You're still going by the same factually wrong assertion that low haste means you cannot keep more than one stack of ironfur up.

You must not understand my WHOLE point, which is 2x Ironfur + 1x Mark of Ursol OR 3x Ironfur at all times during whatever heavy phisical or phisical + magical encounter you wish.

[GT4]

You must not understand my WHOLE point, which is 2x Ironfur + 1x Mark of Ursol OR 3x Ironfur at all times during whatever heavy phisical or phisical + magical encounter you wish.

Last time I'll explain this to you: In your fucking post you compared ZERO stacks to your 2-3 stacks. Do some proper maths comparing both setups if you want to make a point.

[Ealyssa]

maybe in a patch or two we will be able to facetank mythic bosses with active mitigation feeling needed only at times or none at all, because right now we just die.

Nobody expect bear to "facetank" bosses.

That's what you don't understand. You think that going haste is the ONLY way to maintain ironfur to 2-3 stacks.

It's not.

[RamboMatrix]

Crit gives dodge % which is why I like it more than haste

[estenopeico]

Crit gives dodge % which is why I like it more than haste

I don't think we are dodging anymore so... IIRC It is negligible. Crit is best for DPS increase, but looking it from a defensive perspective it is the worst stat.
I can be totally wrong but that's my understanding for a defensive optimization.

[Deleted]

We still convert crit into dodge, the passive that does it is just currently hidden.

With Gory Fur procs and Bristling Fur you have more than enough rage to keep 3 stacks of AM up whenever you are tanking a mythic boss, which you can see from my logs below. I have quite a bit of haste on this set, simply because armor>all and I don't care what secondaries are on my gear, if I can increase armor.

Also for people that claim that crit and catweave are for farm .... what? Tank damage is most important during progression, when there are enrage timers to beat. For an example look at my guilds Nythendra kill, if me and my cotank would not have done all the damage we could, we wouldn't have gotten her in that try. On farm it doesn't matter, if you don't want to push your rankings.

[estenopeico]

We still convert crit into dodge, the passive that does it is just currently hidden.

Sorry I didn't express myself correctly. What I meant is that, even with crit still converting to dodge, I think it is negligible IIRC. You should stack a hell of a lot of crit to get noticeable dodge, and it wouldn't matter because we have a kit which can greatly reduce incoming damage.

With Gory Fur procs and Bristling Fur you have more than enough rage to keep 3 stacks of AM up whenever you are tanking a mythic boss, which you can see from my logs below. I have quite a bit of haste on this set, simply because armor>all and I don't care what secondaries are on my gear, if I can increase armor.

By AM do you mean IronFur? And when something does not give any armor, which stat do you prefer?

Also for people that claim that crit and catweave are for farm .... what? Tank damage is most important during progression, when there are enrage timers to beat. For an example look at my guilds Nythendra kill, if me and my cotank would not have done all the damage we could, we wouldn't have gotten her in that try. On farm it doesn't matter, if you don't want to push your rankings.

Totally right on this one. I'm still getting the hang on catweaving and understanding when to catweave, but it is really powerful. Also, restoration affinity isn't that good because it is nerfed for bears so you are better of with the other options.

[Thaledwyn]

So to sum it up:

iLvl (if it has armor on it) > Bonus armor >>> vers > mastery >> rest

Correct?

[CenariusTheForestLord]

So to sum it up:

iLvl (if it has armor on it) > Bonus armor >>> vers > mastery >> rest

Correct?

Yes, ignore everything else you've read in this thread. No idea where the clowns came from.