Arms Legion Discussion

[Bigbazz]

The Icy Veins guide is just bad/wrong/out of date. For example.

1.3. Execute Usage

Execute is currently only used in conjunction with Shattered Defenses, or if using Ayala's Stone Heart procs. When using Focused Rage, it is pushed out entirely outside of ring procs, due to Mortal Strike taking priority.

This is just downright wrong. Below 20% FR is only using during Battle Cry, Mortal Strike is still used on cooldown but Execute is the main ability and takes priority on Shattered Defense. In execute phase we only use Battle Cry directly after CS application, then we spam Execute during (no refreshing CS during Battle Cry, just execute) for maximum damage/rage spending for tactition procs, using our 3 stack MS outside of Battle Cry in the normal "on cooldown" fashion we use outside of Battle Cry.

In other words Execute phase is abandon FR, use MS on cooldown and Execute outside of that, using Execute for Shattered Defense.. Now some people might have some optimisations or more clear explanation than this, but Icy Veins is terrible as a guide right now because it's still based on the primitive understanding taken from the 50% Focused Rage period.

[ReD-EyeD]

In other words Execute phase is abandon FR, use MS on cooldown and Execute outside of that, using Execute for Shattered Defense.. Now some people might have some optimisations or more clear explanation than this, but Icy Veins is terrible as a guide right now because it's still based on the primitive understanding taken from the 50% Focused Rage period.

Are you sure about MS on cooldown? I can understand FR stacked MS during/after BC, but as higher priority over Execute? Seems wrong. Have any math to back it up? I thought that with nerfed FR MS rage/damage is lower than Execute.

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Yeah, there are some bad legendary designs.

Legendary designs (stat-wise) are fine. The problem lies in overvalued mastery for Arms and undervalued rest of the stats.

Inb4 Blizzard nerfs arms mastery.

[Uthan]

Weeeeell, they did for some inexplicable reason put crit on 6/8 of them, I wouldn't call that fine :P

[cFortyfive]

Legendary designs (stat-wise) are fine. The problem .

considering that problem isn't exactly limited to warriors alone I'd say it's indeed also a design issue.

[Bigbazz]

Are you sure about MS on cooldown? I can understand FR stacked MS during/after BC, but as higher priority over Execute? Seems wrong. Have any math to back it up? I thought that with nerfed FR MS rage/damage is lower than Execute.

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Legendary designs (stat-wise) are fine. The problem lies in overvalued mastery for Arms and undervalued rest of the stats.

Inb4 Blizzard nerfs arms mastery.

It's about damage per rage, rough example using my chars numbers.

MS = 16 rage cost (dauntless) = 140,479 damage = 8780 DPR
Execute = 8 rage (dauntless) = 60517 damage = 7564 DPR
Consuming additional 24 rage for additional 181,552 damage = 7564 DPR

So it's more rage effective to Mortal Strike, since it's not like we're GCD capped or rage capped. But for sure I could have missed something, I haven't looked really deeply into theorycrafting since all the changes.. Been too busy sitting on bench for Mythic after crying about loot RNG on my Warrior (while my rogue loots everything with no effort).. Then my PC dying completely and having to build a new one in time for raids, followed by absolute garbage RNG dps and stupid/no heals deaths in week 1 heroic + completely fucked stuttering on cenarius and my sound card dying mid combat and temporarily freezing my system on 2 fights.

I think the only fight I've done well on was Xavius HC this week, and even then I gimped myself by holding cooldowns for a 2nd big add that never arrived, so generally pretty annoyed and absent minded and "fuck it all" mentality when it comes to WoW and my Warrior at the moment.

[ReD-EyeD]

MS = 16 rage cost (dauntless) = 140,479 damage = 8780 DPR
Execute = 8 rage (dauntless) = 60517 damage = 7564 DPR
Consuming additional 24 rage for additional 181,552 damage = 7564 DPR

I'm pretty sure that Execute would still be better if you consider free +15% crit from traits and generally using it for more rage and getting MUCH bigger bonus from Shattered Defenses and Precise Strikes if cast with like 30+ rage.

[Tatsujin]

Weeeeell, they did for some inexplicable reason put crit on 6/8 of them, I wouldn't call that fine :P

The set is very flawed. You can't even upgrade them to go higher. Sigh. The shoulders, head and another item (forgot which one) are the only good ones.

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Question, I got the trinket that builds up haste to 20 stacks. I'm trying to get the first boss in HoV to drop his trinket since it has very high versa (forgot what the proc is tho). Any other good trinkets I should go for? I know all dungeon trinkets are pretty much better than raid ones, but I want to hear some of everyone's insights on this.

[Bigbazz]

I'm pretty sure that Execute would still be better if you consider free +15% crit from traits and generally using it for more rage and getting MUCH bigger bonus from Shattered Defenses and Precise Strikes if cast with like 30+ rage.

Yes but most people (myself included) don't have Deathblow at the moment, let alone 3 points in it, and I didn't say anything about using MS with Shattered Defense/Precise Strikes, infact I specifically stated using Execute for SD.

Mortal Strike is still used on cooldown but Execute is the main ability and takes priority on Shattered Defense

I'm not sure how it can be more clear than this in stating that you're not using MS for SD, so I don't know why you even mentioned it.

[ReD-EyeD]

Yes but most people (myself included) don't have Deathblow at the moment, let alone 3 points in it, and I didn't say anything about using MS with Shattered Defense/Precise Strikes, infact I specifically stated using Execute for SD.

I think Precise Strikes is more important here. The reduction is very big. Plus bigger rage spend numbers tend to proc tactician more often than small portions.

[Bigbazz]

I think Precise Strikes is more important here. The reduction is very big here. Plus bigger rage spend numbers tend to proc tactician more often than small portions.

Precise strikes is not every ability in CS, it's 1 ability just like SD.. So it's not even a subject of discussion, revert to my previous reply as it applies exactly the same. Like mathematically if you want to prove me wrong I'm happy to be wrong, but so far you're not doing much here.


Edit : to finish this off. You're meandering a lot here without really thinking, if you spend 16 rage on MS instead of 16 rage on Execute you're getting more damage, effectively by pressing MS and only spending 16 rage you're saving more rage to spend on Execute later, if you just press Execute you're wasting more rage when you're already rage limited.

Execute is used for SD, outside of that you should just use MS on cooldown, it's considerably higher damage per rage and makes it easier to balance your rage ready for a full rage CS > Execute (SD) hit.

[ReD-EyeD]

Precise strikes is not every ability in CS, it's 1 ability just like SD.. So it's not even a subject of discussion, revert to my previous reply as it applies exactly the same. Like mathematically if you want to prove me wrong I'm happy to be wrong, but so far you're not doing much here.

I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong here, stop being egocentric. I'm just trying to find the best rotation here, especially if even the latest simcraft prefers execute over mortal strike (unless FR stacked obviously) and I for obvious reasons trust it more than random people on forums. Simcraft is made by humans so I can doubt them too tho.

[Bigbazz]

I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong here, stop being egocentric. I'm just trying to find the best rotation here, especially if even the latest simcraft prefers execute over mortal strike (unless FR stacked obviously) and I for obvious reasons trust it more than random people on forums. Simcraft is made by humans so I can doubt them too tho.

It's not egocentric to ask you to provide numbers to disprove my theory/interpretation, I want to optimise the best way to play too which is why I said "i'm happy to be proven wrong".. But don't just say you want to know the best way to play and then deny simple basic numbers without providing a good reason.

The numbers show that MS is more efficient use of rage outside of SD/BC, if there is some misinterpretation on my part then point it out, show me the numbers, but otherwise don't just say "because I trust this human more than another human".. Trust the numbers.

[ReD-EyeD]

It's not egocentric to ask you to provide numbers to disprove my theory/interpretation, I want to optimise the best way to play too which is why I said "i'm happy to be proven wrong".. But don't just say you want to know the best way to play and then deny simple basic numbers without providing a good reason.

The numbers show that MS is more efficient use of rage outside of SD/BC, if there is some misinterpretation on my part then point it out, show me the numbers, but otherwise don't just say "because I trust this human more than another human".. Trust the numbers.

Even simple sims shows ~2% overall increase in damage if you exclude MS from execute phase (unless FRx3 during BC ofc).

Don't know what more numbers you expect. Test it yourself.

[Bigbazz]

Even simple sims shows ~2% overall increase in damage if you exclude MS from execute phase (unless FRx3 during BC ofc).

Don't know what more numbers you expect. Test it yourself.

I just ran a Simcraft test introducing MS to the execute outside of SD and I lost 0.066% sim damage (about 200 dps), with 1x Deathblow relic. But yeah "Dunno what more numbers you expect" is a perfectly scientfic way of looking at it totally, you just run a sim and then ignore the numbers and take it at face value without understanding why it's happening or whats happening under the hood and then use that as your argument.

Great way of looking at it, ignore any conflicting numbers, ignore mechanics or understanding of why the results happen and just have faith.

[Tatsujin]

Even simple sims shows ~2% overall increase in damage if you exclude MS from execute phase (unless FRx3 during BC ofc).

Don't know what more numbers you expect. Test it yourself.

^ This is what I do during execute phase. It's smoother and my DPS on the meters pulls higher.

[Deleted]

Some more questions im not sure about, maybe you can help me

1) If you have Cs up on target, and tactican procs, should you wait for the CS to run out first before using it?
2) Im on lvl 21 trait in arms, which is the biggest dps increase or benefit? Go in deathblow or unending rage?
3) How do you get the hidden trait unbreakable steel?
4) Is there a proper rotation for execute phase, seems conflicting opinions from what i've read

[reakwon]

Does anyone have any mythic ursoc tips? I just can't seem to get my dps above 300k consistently and I feel like a strain on the raid.

[Archimtiros]

Does anyone have any mythic ursoc tips? I just can't seem to get my dps above 300k consistently and I feel like a strain on the raid.

Play Fury! Worked for me at least.

[Sorshen]

I think mastery needs a huge nerf for the spec consistency. Move that damage to MS/slam/ww.

[Deleted]

Stop calling for NERFS !11!!!!11! I know you probably think - yeah if we manage to get blizz to nerf Arms, then they will probably buff fury. NO they WONT, that's now how blizzard works with warriors. They just have their random number generator monkey, pulling numbers out of a hat (fury warrior buffs)