No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Ordinator]

Don't be salty because your opinion is irrational and supported by a small minority

How compelling. I hope everyone else also made a mental note to not take anything you say seriously.

Infracted: Stop arguing for argument's sake {MoanaLisa}

[Mafic]

It's a video game and that's a video game mechanic. I mean why can't you mount in a cave? Or fly in a house? Merely a game mechanic just like not having flying in the current content is. Rationalizing game mechanics and reality is just wheels spinning in the dirt. Pathfinder will give us flight and account wide (if not mistaken?). That is simply the game mechanic that blizzard has made the choice to use. Some agree and others disagree. Seems like a pretty good middle ground in the debate as long as it lands somewhere mid expansion and not during the content drought end like it did in WoD.

Technically flying came mid expansion in WoD as well and after patch 6.2. So, mid expansion can mean well after the last major content patch with Legion as well. So, this is why you can't trust what they say and look at what they actually do in regards to flying and when it will be available to test.

[satimy]

How compelling. I hope everyone else also made a mental note to not take anything you say seriously.

Oh how intimidating and fierce you are!

Infracted: Off-topic, derailing and pointless except to argue with others {MoanaLisa}

[Ordinator]

Oh how intimidating and fierce you are!

This is what the losing side of an argument looks like.

[bufferunderrun]

I do think Blizzard is fairly reasonable when it comes to feedback, but they also stick to their guns when they have a specific design or vision. When it comes to flight, they see it as an obstacle that they have had to design around since its implementation. It's something they actively don't want to go back to, otherwise they're back to designing larger scale maps and resigning to exploitable quest mechanics. We both know this.

When it comes to wanting to improve flight, there's really nothing to discuss here. It's a shifting of goalposts that will satisfy one group and infuriate another. This is indicative by ANY change done to the game. Not necessarily saying it'd be any for the worse, and it might actually be better than what we have now, but it has to satisfy the underlying 'don't interfere with world/quest content pacing' vision that Blizzard has set out so far. I personally believe it is unreasonable to try and get Blizzard to change that design philosophy just to bring forward a travel feature; one that will be added eventually anyways. It's not me defending Blizzard, it's me laying down the most realistic situation at hand.

There is nothing wrong with asking Blizzard to return to Vanilla, or remove LFR, or remove Cross Realms, or stop the year-long content deadzones. It doesn't mean that any of these things will happen just because a lot of people all want the same thing. It's one thing to make suggestions, and it's another to understand how applicable they are to Blizzard's forward momentum.

no blizzard is not reasonable about feedback, they pretty much ignored every one who goes against their vision and only accept as valid one those who come from a restricted circle of chosen one yes men.

I not even in a million of years buy all the excuses about flying being removed for the sake of immersion, wpvp, etc, flying has been removed to slow down peoples and save a bit of dev time when creating zones.

[Beazy]

It's something they actively don't want to go back to, otherwise they're back to designing larger scale maps and resigning to exploitable quest mechanics. We both know this.

Which quest mechanics are being exploited?

I started playing WoW in Nov 2004, and never once found a quest you could do on a mount. If you have proof, please, show it. Ive been asking for two thousand pages where these magical mounted quests are, but no one has been able to show one.

[Evilfish]

Which quest mechanics are being exploited?

I started playing WoW in Nov 2004, and never once found a quest you could do on a mount. If you have proof, please, show it. Ive been asking for two thousand pages where these magical mounted quests are, but no one has been able to show one.

The most recent one? In the stormheim hell, freeing the trapped valkyr does not require you to dismount. Also there's the Argent tournament.

[Beazy]

The most recent one? In the stormheim hell, freeing the trapped valkyr does not require you to dismount. Also there's the Argent tournament.

Were talking about using flying to complete/exploit quest mechanics. Not clickable items in an instance or Jousting in the Argent Tourney.

[Evilfish]

Were talking about using flying to complete/exploit quest mechanics. Not clickable items in an instance or Jousting in the Argent Tourney.

In that event I don't know of any quests that may be exploited via flying. They can be completed faster given the speed of the flying mount, but that would not be considered an exploit any more than using Path of Frost to get to the central island in Suramar to burn the orgy boats, would be considered an exploit or maybe the Demon Hunter double jump which may get your across obstacles you otherwise couldn't get across without the extra jump. Unless people are gonna start whining about that too.

I think by now many people have already explored the map. There's no point in keeping them grounded. Even on PVP servers. I find the world PVP excuse a load of fly infested shit. There's no world PVP unless both opponents are reasonably equal in strength and level. Five guys slamming on one guy over and over is not world PVP.

There are shared points of interest on the map where people can engage in PVP if they want. Anyone who says this is a vital reason to keep them grounded is being a moron.

Also I find nothing more selfish that DEMANDING people play how YOU want as opposed to how they want. Calling them lazy or even cheaters if they do not adhere to your rules (note I'm not talking about you). The Legion maps are entirely accessible by ground mount so these fucking people can't say that ground mounts limit their access. They might not be as fast but the Broken Isles are just as accessible, so nobody is obligated to use a flying mount if they don't want to.

The fact is the new areas are small and crowded. I don't like that and I especially don't like it because of the fucking people who have whined about this no flying bullshit which made the reduction in size a possibility by lowering the standards with their moronic whining that has nothing to do with concern about the health of the game just with their little sick, perverse desire to fuck other people over.

I shit you not, these people get off on seeing you be annoyed by not being able to take advantage of the ability to move around easier. A big middle finger to those guys. They are a plague on this game.

[Thimagryn]

Which quest mechanics are being exploited?

I started playing WoW in Nov 2004, and never once found a quest you could do on a mount. If you have proof, please, show it. Ive been asking for two thousand pages where these magical mounted quests are, but no one has been able to show one.

you've obviously never played a Druid.

I could do all collection quests in flight form in Cata. That was when they allowed flight early on, during leveling too. Obviously, I was first in my guild to hit max level. Server first was a druid too.

Of course that's not a flaw in flight itself, but it was definitely the catalyst. Even doing collection quests in ground travel form, I'd have to be wary of mobs nearby. There was no need to with flight when they insta de-aggro as soon as you hit the sky. Literally do collection quests with mobs running at you, and take off before they reach.

- - - Updated - - -

no blizzard is not reasonable about feedback, they pretty much ignored every one who goes against their vision and only accept as valid one those who come from a restricted circle of chosen one yes men.

Then you're countering SirCowDog's own claims that only flight is being ignored while Blizzard listens to everything else. Of course, this is just opinion we're talking about.

When you calm down and start reading Blizzard's updates more frequently from an objective view, you'll see that they're reasonable. Now let me make this clear - I say reasonable, not agreeable. What I mean is that Blizzard's choices have purpose behind them and are within the realm of common sense. This does not mean they abide to player logic or player reasonings. What this means is Blizzard has their own reasons and they make sense within the context of development of a MMO that affects a WIDE range of players. Sacrifices ultimately will be made for the greater good. Warlocks have to have Metamorphosis removed to have Demon Hunters playable, pissing off a sizable chunk of the Warlock population.

Of course, when you're in the mindset that Blizzard is only out to screw you because they've been screwing you on the one feature you admire most, then I can understand your sentiment. It doesn't mean Blizzard is unreasonable for not adhering to your personal whims and demands. Reason itself is fairly subjective, but projecting our own perceptions of faults and failings onto Blizzard as though there is an underlying conspiracy is fairly ridiculous. All you need to dispel those fallacies is a basic understanding of how game design actually works; and not just from an enthusiast/player perspective.

[vorpalbladebb]

You have to down Xavius if I remember correctly and then you have to finish a series of quests related to downing Xavius and become exalted with the Nightfallen.

I really do totally understand their point, that requiring a raid boss kill for loremaster is unprecedented and undesirable, but I wanted to say that I loved Good Surimaritan, and had a blast doing an in-depth max level quest chain, raiding and all. I enjoyed doing pathfinder too, and now I'm just super curious what the next part willl consist of.

[MoanaLisa]

The massive no flying threads in WoD started when patch 6.1 was released and no signs of flying.

The massive no flying threads started eight months before WoD even launched. By 6.1 it was very old news.

March 8, 2014 for the Warlords thread here.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ut-entire-xpac

This wasn't the first either. It was the one we ended up keeping open. There were others before.

[Myah]

Which quest mechanics are being exploited?

I started playing WoW in Nov 2004, and never once found a quest you could do on a mount. If you have proof, please, show it. Ive been asking for two thousand pages where these magical mounted quests are, but no one has been able to show one.

You could get the mount in WoD Nagrand and do everything mounted.


On other note: 30 days of Legion and still no flying. *shoots self*

[Mafic]

The massive no flying threads started eight months before WoD even launched. By 6.1 it was very old news.

March 8, 2014 for the Warlords thread here.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ut-entire-xpac

This wasn't the first either. It was the one we ended up keeping open. There were others before.

There was flying threads on the official forums, but they didn't increase in intensity until after patch 6.1 when Blizzard made the news by saying flying will not be part of patch 6.1.

On MMO Champ the threads started well before WoD was even in alpha which is correct as your link shows and demonstrates.

- - - Updated - - -

Were talking about using flying to complete/exploit quest mechanics. Not clickable items in an instance or Jousting in the Argent Tourney.

WoD's Nagrand you could stay mounted and complete quests there. I find it interesting that Blizz doesn't see it as an issue that players being able to attack NPCs on a ground mount while claiming that it is balanced. Meanwhile for a flying mount you have to cast and drop combat for a flying mount usage, so why the hypocrisy?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Technically flying came mid expansion in WoD as well and after patch 6.2. So, mid expansion can mean well after the last major content patch with Legion as well. So, this is why you can't trust what they say and look at what they actually do in regards to flying and when it will be available to test.

Well where I was taking it was more as a mid content and not mid timeline.

[quras]

we should be able to fly everywhere. EVERYWHERE.

While I think that has a whole lot more potantial for entertainment than being on the ground does at max level.

I'd still they rather stuck with a TBC or WotLK model. Even though flying at the start of Cata wasn't a problem it was still better than anything MoP, WoD or legion has going for it but TBC and wotLK got it right in both allowing flying when they did, how it was done and where.

wow just isn't wow at max level without flying.

[Mafic]

Well where I was taking it was more as a mid content and not mid timeline.

Reading between the lines, "mid expansion" may mean the half way point of the life cycle of the expansion. If the average cycle of an expansion is roughly 2 years or more than a year or so is mid expansion.

WoD flying mount usage came sooner than the one year mark, but not that much sooner. It is hard to say if that was because it was planned out and more likely because Blizzard's hands were forced due to the backlash.

[-Joker-]

Can you tell me at what point in your head you were able to equate unlimited flying with things that have a cooldown and dont ever remove you entirely from the game? I'm still trying to understand how pro flyers see those two things as one of the same.

Stealth can remove you from the game. You are no longer in danger when sitting in the right spot.
Mountains can remove you from the game. Want to avoid mobs afk? Just run up a spire or hill and AFK.
Garrisons can remove you from the game. Want to avoid all danger? Just hearth.
Capital cities can remove you from the game. See above.
Want to dodge PvP and avoid danger? Duck into an instance or step through a portal and your PvP is disabled.

In the interest of fairness, a great many things can remove someone from the game. What makes flight unique is not the ability to remove yourself from gameplay, but the ability to hop over obstacles, mobs, etc which you might not want to deal with. This is why I play a rogue with a goblin glider. Vanish allows me to get my hit in, and then dump every bit of aggro on the other guy, then just afk til the mob is dead to collect my gold/loot. Flight is a very powerful tool when available, and every player... myself included, would use it at will. I don't fault people for wanting to use a legitimate in game mechanic. I fault them for not being more honest about why they want to do it. Lazyness. I fall into the same boat.

[MasterHamster]

I was caught of guard though seeing massive flying threads on the Legion official forums the last few weeks as they came a lot sooner than I anticipated though..

Keep lying and eventually someone will believe you.

Or even better, you and Connll can have a battle between the narratives;

Blizzard is removing all flight threads!
vs
People are already in an uproar on the forums!

Whose farfetched delirium will win?

[bufferunderrun]

Then you're countering SirCowDog's own claims that only flight is being ignored while Blizzard listens to everything else. Of course, this is just opinion we're talking about.

When you calm down and start reading Blizzard's updates more frequently from an objective view, you'll see that they're reasonable. Now let me make this clear - I say reasonable, not agreeable. What I mean is that Blizzard's choices have purpose behind them and are within the realm of common sense. This does not mean they abide to player logic or player reasonings. What this means is Blizzard has their own reasons and they make sense within the context of development of a MMO that affects a WIDE range of players. Sacrifices ultimately will be made for the greater good. Warlocks have to have Metamorphosis removed to have Demon Hunters playable, pissing off a sizable chunk of the Warlock population.

Of course, when you're in the mindset that Blizzard is only out to screw you because they've been screwing you on the one feature you admire most, then I can understand your sentiment. It doesn't mean Blizzard is unreasonable for not adhering to your personal whims and demands. Reason itself is fairly subjective, but projecting our own perceptions of faults and failings onto Blizzard as though there is an underlying conspiracy is fairly ridiculous. All you need to dispel those fallacies is a basic understanding of how game design actually works; and not just from an enthusiast/player perspective.

no i'm not countering him i'm saying there is a difference btw feedback and our boss storming the meeting room demanding why he is losing money due to miss communication or a wrong and fretted decision.

For the great good? is that some sort of new blizzology fate? They simply follow their own agenda sometime it's dictated by making money (they pissing off warlock over meta to introduce xxxxIllidanxxxx and pissing them again making the class crap, again after tons of warlocks have pointed it out during alpha and beta but hey they weren't the world top warlock so who cares) and sometimes following their own personal preference, like Watcher being the herald of the "math over fun".

I will write it here the next thing they are willing to remove is the automatic matchmaker, i will patiently wait on the riverbank to see who gonna lose it's job when that backfire.