Montreal approves new laws on the handling and ownership of pitbull-like dogs

[EventHorizon]

Canada should take example from USA Breeding rules from each states. A lot of city in each states have pit bulls banned.
Some have doberman pinschers, Chow chows, and chihuahua I have heard got banned

And quebec have the highest school drop rate,
And quebec have the highest abortion rate,
And quebec have the highest suicide rate (after Yukon ),

I am from Montreal and Yes the city needed rules. Its a great start

Rules? Sure, I absolutely agree. Coderre's ban was overdoing it however. Forbidding purchase of all these breeds in lieu of merely enforcing the new muzzle, leash, oversight and permit rules is ridiculous.

My sister fostered and sheltered abandoned and abused pitbulls for years before having kids and nothing ever happened - however, like any strong dog they owned, they were in the backyard with a solid fence and there was a lock on it to ensure kids didn't just walk in their backyard to pet the dog.

Bad or ignorant owners, as well as idiotic people who think it's ok to just walk up to people and pet their dog out of nowhere or from the back, are the main reason these things happen.

Montreal has way more serious problems to solve yet let's focus on stuff like that so people forget about the real issues for a bit.

[Darsithis]

I sure as fuck hope all you doggie lovers are also pro-gun, because you sure sound like them.

I'm not.

ANY dog can be a danger if mistreated. Singling out Pit-breeds because public sentiment holds them to be extra dangerous is wrong. Even my super-spoiled Shibas could, if sufficiently provoked and in danger, take someone down.

[EventHorizon]

I'm not.

ANY dog can be a danger if mistreated. Singling out Pit-breeds because public sentiment holds them to be extra dangerous is wrong. Even my super-spoiled Shibas could, if sufficiently provoked and in danger, take someone down.

Hell, my parents' golden retriever almost broke my hand once for trying to take a tennis ball back from him as we were playing and he's normally the sweetest dog ever.

Excitement, anxiety, etc... can make most dogs shift into high-risk situations, some have jaws far stronger than pits too.

[bombayshow]

Rules? Sure, I absolutely agree. Coderre's ban was overdoing it however. Forbidding purchase of all these breeds in lieu of merely enforcing the new muzzle, leash, oversight and permit rules is ridiculous.

My sister fostered and sheltered abandoned and abused pitbulls for years before having kids and nothing ever happened - however, like any strong dog they owned, they were in the backyard with a solid fence and there was a lock on it to ensure kids didn't just walk in their backyard to pet the dog.

Bad or ignorant owners, as well as idiotic people who think it's ok to just walk up to people and pet their dog out of nowhere or from the back, are the main reason these things happen.

Montreal has way more serious problems to solve yet let's focus on stuff like that so people forget about the real issues for a bit.

There is a lot more to focus yes, but dogs breed and dog farms is a usual thing in quebec.
Canada register everything like USA does.

We dont care if a dog is good or not, or if a owner is a good one or not . Canada needs serious laws for dog breeding and fast.
Just take a look at dogbite website and feel ashamed like I did.

[TirielWoW]

or you know you can be rational and don't take your easily agitated dog out in public spaces

The thing is, it's almost never responsible owners who do this. There are a ridiculous number of irresponsible people who own dogs who should not own dogs.

When you get a dog like a German Shepherd, or a Rottweiler, or, yes, a Pit Bull, you're often told that you have to socialize them early. They need to learn that people and other dogs are their friends from a young age. It's also important to spay and neuter because this helps reduce aggressive tendencies, and they absolutely need obedience training.

A lot of people don't do this, though. Even people who should know better. My mom has a really dear friend that has a pure bred Great Dane. The dog is beautiful, and is the most vicious dog I've ever met. It's a menace. She has never socialized him, never trained him, and flatly refuses to get him neutered because "it's just not right" and she might want to breed him "at some point." This woman is a dog groomer - she knows about vicious dogs, she's interacted with dogs for years, she's been around trainers and veterinarians, yet she still insists on doing all the wrong things with a 200lb dog. The dog is bigger than her, and thanks to her foolishness, it knows it. You can't have him around other animals or people, and one day that dog is going to get out and seriously hurt - or kill - someone.

She is an irresponsible dog owner. And there are many, many people like her. They don't socialize their dogs. They don't get them obedience trained. They don't give them an outlet for their energy. They don't spay or neuter. And then they wonder when their precious widdle angel rips someone's face off.

[Celista]

She is an irresponsible dog owner. And there are many, many people like her. They don't socialize their dogs. They don't get them obedience trained. They don't give them an outlet for their energy. They don't spay or neuter. And then they wonder when their precious widdle angel rips someone's face off.

Yeah, a LOT of dog owners are in serious denial regarding their own dog's behavior. My dog was nipped at by a pit bull recently, we were on a wide sidewalk and passed by on the far opposite side of the sidewalk; the owner was bending down picking up poop (good) when the dog lunged at my dog and bit her in the neck (bad). No apology from the dog owner in question, just "you shouldn't sneak up behind people" (we were at least six feet away from the dog, my dog didn't even look in the dog's direction). He got pretty angry when I pointed this out (not sure what he expected us to do, wait a good 10-15 feet away while he was picking up dog poop?).

People are irrational beings and they become even more irrational when pets are involved.

[Tackhisis]

That was long, long overdue. People have no business in keeping the breed of dogs made especially for killing.

[TirielWoW]

Yeah, a LOT of dog owners are in serious denial regarding their own dog's behavior. My dog was nipped at by a pit bull recently, we were on a wide sidewalk and passed by on the far opposite side of the sidewalk; the owner was bending down picking up poop (good) when the dog lunged at my dog and bit her in the neck (bad). No apology from the dog owner in question, just "you shouldn't sneak up behind people" (we were at least six feet away from the dog, my dog didn't even look in the dog's direction). He got pretty angry when I pointed this out (not sure what he expected us to do, wait a good 10-15 feet away while he was picking up dog poop?).

People are irrational beings and they become even more irrational when pets are involved.

Yup. Did he at least discipline the dog? A dog that can't be trusted not to lunge and bite is not a dog that should be out in public.

- - - Updated - - -

That was long, long overdue. People have no business in keeping the breed of dogs made especially for killing.

I have a half-Rottweiler, half-Pit Bull. He's never bitten anyone, but we broke him of being "mouthy" from the time he was a puppy. He's neutered, obedience trained, and his only real "flaw" is that he pulls when you walk him (we have a special collar to fix that). My dog was not "made especially for killing." My dog was made to be a dog. Everything else is what my family has added to him, and we've done our best to socialize him (he loooooves other animals and people), and if he ever did bite someone, I would put him down.

But you try to take him from me on the bullshit basis that someone else mishandled their damn dog, and you're going to lose an arm.

[Celista]

Yup. Did he at least discipline the dog? A dog that can't be trusted not to lunge and bite is not a dog that should be out in public.

No. He yelled at me for "sneaking up on him", became irate when I pointed out that my dog didn't even glance at his dog and we passed him and his dog at a walking speed on the complete opposite side of the sidewalk. An episode of Grimm was being filmed across the street, and a security guard from the film came over and asked him to calm down while I was looking over my dog. He then tried taking my dog's tennis ball from her and started following us down the street with his camera phone out.

I know everyone says they were calm and polite in situations like this but I really never raised my voice at him and said nothing more than his dog bit my dog, asked if his dog was up to date on shots/vaccinations and that we were on the opposite side of the sidewalk. And if I could have my dog's ball back. I probably looked upset about the dog bite, however, because I was. She's fine, we went to the vet immediately afterwards.

Dude was creepy as hell for following us down the street though. I was about five seconds away from digging pepper spray out of the front pocket of my messenger bag.

[Forgottenone]

I feel bad for the dogs, being killed just because of your breed. At least if it's done humanely which it should be that is a bit better. The main thing I dislike is that by doing this, then there will be a new "top dog" that attacks, if that gets banned then the cycle can potentially continue until only very select breeds are allowed.

My main worry is that this will catch up in other provinces and then eventually rottweilers will be on the list @_@ Where I live in Ontario we have about 6 or 7 rottweilers within an 8 min walk from my house. None of them have caused any problems and people have owned them in this small specific area for over 20 years. So for me with this breed, the neighbors and owners here have proven it comes down completely to how they are raised.

Have had small little shit dogs bite and nip at people almost on a weekly basis >_>

[Azmoden]

to be accurate, Quebec. Quebec has been a regressive shithole for centuries

How about you go fuck yourself?

Signed, someone who lives in Quebec.

[Celista]

Man I am more mad about that incident after I typed the whole thing out.

"Any dog can be aggressive", idk. Yes, any dog of any breed can have behavior issues, sure. But my own personal experience from walking my pup/going to dog parks everyday indicates that breed is a good indicator of behavior...the friendliest breeds at the park (both with dogs and people) tend to be labs, poodles, retrievers.

Dogs I've seen with "behavior problems" aka attacking other animals: pit bull, boxer, belgian malnois, doberman pincher.

Situations where dogs have been bossy/annoying to other dogs but not aggressive: herding breeds.

Questionable altercations where my dog had to act super submissive (she is already super submissive) to "placate" the other dog: two pit bulls, belgian tervuren.

I think that there are many dog owners out there that are doing "the right things" but have to be constantly vigilant with their dog's behavior and behavior is an ongoing challenge/issue. For those dogs, innate temperament is relevant.

[starlord]

i have been out walking my dog & been attacked by a dachshund & terrier. They are hunting dogs and therefore innately aggressive. Ban hounds & terriers?

[Celista]

Hunting dogs are not innately aggressive and if hunting breeds started being disproportionately represented in dog bite and fatality statistics in relationship to their overall prevalence in a given pet population, the answer would be yes. Just like for pit bulls.

https://www.boston.com/news/local-ne...shful-thinking

"Pit bulls make up 6 percent of the dog population in Canada and the US, but they are responsible for 68 percent of dog attacks and 52 percent of dog-related deaths from 1982 to 2009, TIME Magazine reported."

- - - Updated - - -

http://time.com/2891180/kfc-and-the-...a-little-girl/

Pit bulls make up only 6% of the dog population, but they’re responsible for 68% of dog attacks and 52% of dog-related deaths since 1982, according to research compiled by Merritt Clifton, editor of Animals 24-7, an animal-news organization that focuses on humane work and animal-cruelty prevention.

Clifton himself has been twice attacked by dogs (one pit bull), and part of his work involves logging fatal and disfiguring attacks. Clifton says that for the 32 years he’s been recording, there has never been a year when pit bulls have accounted for less than half of all attacks. A CDC report on dog-bite fatalities from 1978 to 1998 confirms that pit bulls are responsible for more deaths than any other breed, but the CDC no longer collects breed-specific information.

Another report published in the April 2011 issue of Annals of Surgery found that one person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days, two people are injured by a pit bull every day, and young children are especially at risk.

[starlord]

Hunting dogs are not innately aggressive and if hunting breeds started being disproportionately represented in dog bite and fatality statistics in relationship to their overall prevalence in a given pet population, the answer would be yes. Just like for pit bulls.

https://www.boston.com/news/local-ne...shful-thinking

"Pit bulls make up 6 percent of the dog population in Canada and the US, but they are responsible for 68 percent of dog attacks and 52 percent of dog-related deaths from 1982 to 2009, TIME Magazine reported."

in your own article it says pit bulls were bred to be hunting dogs... and having a strong prey drive is what can cause "natural aggression." and when they were used as fighting dogs, it was against said large animals, or other dogs. this type of breeding does not innately cause human aggression (for example wolfhounds, beardogs, and mastiffs are not viewed as being overly human aggressive. because a hunting dog that turns on its master is useless.)
It even says,

"Some people are still sometimes hesitant to adopt pit bulls, Halpin said, but “many more families adopt these dogs because they’ve seen that the ‘hype’ surrounding them does not match the reality: And that is that they are a dog like any other dog, for whom socialization and good training is necessary for them to be a good citizen in the world.’’

when pitbulls and anything that resembles them are banned, there will suddenly arise another "innately aggressive dog breed" thats been around for centuries with no issue that will become a "public menace." this trend has repeated many times in the past.
euthanizing a particular breed will do absolutely nothing to solve the problem, which is the dog owners themselves.

[GrinningMan]

Blame the owners.

The owners of shitty pits would have shitty chihuahuas, shitty pomeranians, and shitty golden retrievers.

The only difference is that a certain subset of individuals, who commonly get the dogs for undesirable purposes, tend towards pits and make them into the 'monsters' that attack people.

Be it rednecks, cholos, or gang bangers.

[Celista]

in your own article it says pit bulls were bred to be hunting dogs... and having a strong prey drive is what can cause "natural aggression."
It even says,
when pitbulls and anything that resembles them are banned, there will suddenly arise another "innately aggressive dog breed" thats been around for centuries with no issue that will become a "public menace." this trend has repeated many times in the past.
euthanizing a particular breed will do absolutely nothing to solve the problem, which is the dog owners themselves.

Retrievers are hunting dogs, the MOST CURRENT use of pit bulls has been breeding them for dogfighting. I agree that banning the breed won't solve the problem, that bad owners will move to another dog breed that makes them seem "badass".

THAT BEING SAID, breeding is absolutely relevant to innate temperament. Look at the differences in behavior in domesticated foxes that were bred for temperament within a handful of generations.

[Themius]

As a canadian from Toronto. This is not news to me, we also applied this law. Also as a person from Ontario and lived in white trash areas...this is a good thing.

shiba inus are more aggressive... shar peis are the most aggressive. However shar pei attacks are much rarer than pitbulls despite them being the most aggressive dogs.... this is because of ownership. The problem with pitbulls is that they're readily availble to anyone who wants one. If it were labradors that were available like pitbulls are we would isntead be talking about labradors.

[Celista]

There was a documentary on dogs that actually talked in depth about how the Russian facility separately bred for tameness with one group and aggression in another, I think it was a National Geographic documentary.

- - - Updated - - -

If it were labradors that were available like pitbulls are we would isntead be talking about labradors.

Labradors are one of the most popular dog breeds in the US and Canada and vastly outnumber pit bulls. I thought this was common knowledge.

[starlord]

Retrievers are hunting dogs, the MOST CURRENT use of pit bulls has been breeding them for dogfighting. I agree that banning the breed won't solve the problem, that bad owners will move to another dog breed that makes them seem "badass".

THAT BEING SAID, breeding is absolutely relevant to innate temperament. Look at the differences in behavior in domesticated foxes that were bred for temperament within a handful of generations.

[video=youtube;-L58NPPQ5eI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L58NPPQ5eI

and that is something that can occur in any dog line, of any breed. my family had 2 dachshunds when i was growing up, we raised them the same. One was very fearful & aggressive as a pup until she grew older, the other could be trusted around small children with no issue. but they both liked to chase small animals (that's their innate temperment). so again, singling out a particular breed or anything that "resembles" it is very overreaching and wrong. pitbulls are not any more dangerous than any other breed of the same size, there are just a lot of irresponsible breeders because of a fad. the same is true of many others, especially toy breeds (which is why they make up the majority of dog bites.)