New Jersey - Fuck the middle class

[Theinquisition]

i'm beginning to doubt your actually who you say you are supertony as why would you be defending rich people? although i'm gonna be honest i lost any respect for you a long time ago.

I'm supposed to care why?

I'm solidly muddle class, not even close to rich, I do have enough ethics and values to understand that there is effective tax policy, and there is theft by the majority.

It doesn't matter if someone is dead or not. If someone has worked there entire life and paid taxes, they should be able to give their money to whom ever they want without additional taxes being paid.

Fuck.....it comes down to simple greed. So many here are quick to advocate policies that take from others based solely upon the fact that they have more than them.

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Its enough when they're brought down to everyone elses level. The rich need to be taken down a giant peg, worked for it or not, nobody cares.

All this ststement tells me is that the only difference between you and a burglar, is that at least the burglar has enough courage to commit theft themselves. You are to cowardly to do it yourself, you want the government to do it for you.

[Xarkan]

Fuck.....it comes down to simple greed. So many here are quick to advocate policies that take from others based solely upon the fact that they have more than them.

Or need.

If society wants things done it must be paid for. For example in the US you wish to spend 4ish% of gdp on the military? That is a cost, that is paid by taxes, taxes must happen.

Every single thing you want the federation to do, the state to do, that has a cost and that cost is a need.

Everything your neighbour wants (and that is potentially different) also carries a need for tax.

The compromise between all your and your neighbours needs and dont wants become a budget and that budget must be paid. Kicking and screaming about only wanting to pay for what you wanted for is for senile old men.

In order to get that tax without collapsing it all you must distribute between different types of taxes, if it was all income tax then maybe people would not work because what would be the point. But if it is part income tax, part sales tax, part inheritance tax, part industry tax, part sunny day tax whatever thing it would be.. well you would probably call it nibbling to death by all the taxes but i would say bearable, some of those expenses delayed to death.

[Edit: Forgot the point]
The rich simple has more to tax from. That makes them taxed more. That makes their percentage greater too because the less you have the bigger the impact of the income tax and if you tax them more you end up having to pay them more (us system) to offset the damage resulting in a clusterfuck of absurd tax adjustments.

[ezgeze]

A high estate tax is very destructive. Take Hillary's 65% proposal as an example.

Lets say you have a small family business and then die. The person inheriting that business, in this case lets assume its a child, he/she will need to come up with 65% value of that business. Now 65% is going to be a lot, so how are they going to do it? Its not like most people can just come up with 65% of the valuation suddenly and realistically, so what happens? They sell the business. That's right, the business you set up in your lifetime is going to me most likely sold to someone else to pay the tax man simply for the crime of you dying.

Also, a high % only encourages frivolous spending on high luxury towards the end of ones life since they believe that in the end its either a use it or lose it to the IRS. On the other hand, a low rate encourages people to pass the possessions on to their next of kin, keeping in place the ability of businesses to operate mostly unaltered to a new generation.

The inheritance tax is nothing but theft, one last kick in the nuts by the IRS after you die. In my opinion its straight theft. The issue here is that those who hate this tax believe that a persons money they accumulate during their life is theirs, and not the governments. Those who support a high rate believe that that money belongs to everyone else but the person who accumulated it in the first place.

[Cerus]

Carbondale is a clusterfuck, the taxes are way to high for how rural the area is. Kind of the reason Carbondale has become a revolving door. Jobs are low wage with high requirements and minimal hours, some of the worst taxes in the nation. I guess the students are ok with it but the residents struggle with it.

SIUC enrollment has tanked big time the past few years. And the food quality has gone down as well since kids these days want to do as little as possible for as much money as possible. Doesn't matter where you go to eat - it ends up wrong one way or another. Haven't had a good baked potatoe that I haven't made myself in years. How hard is it to fuck up a potatoe??

Not to mention stores are always a wreck and rarely have enough employees to help.

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The US is not a democracy.

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The US is not a democracy, and it really isnt a nation, just a state.

It's a democratic republic that's run like a pure democracy. It's also a nation: a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory.

[Deletedaccount1]

It would cost 23 cents per gallon to fix roads in a tiny state like New Jersey?

AAA has estimated that an additional 23 cents a gallon at the pump will cost the average driver about $170 more a year. At 37.5 cents a gallon, gas taxes in the Garden State will go from second-lowest in the U.S. to seventh-highest.

lol

[Stacyrect]

So over the past few months, there has been an issue concerning how to raise money to do road work. Our governor has decided the best way to raise tax revenue for road work was to, raise gas taxes by 23 cents per gallon (fuck you middle commuting class btw this state has absolute shit transit so a car is necessary for much of the state), lower sales tax (look we are doing something for you middle class) and eliminate estate tax. Essentially all this does is shift the payment for these things from the wealthiest to the middle class. New Jersey is a very affluent state and to simply eliminate the estate tax within a couple years is bogus. The working poor get a earned income tax credit however the middle class here is just totally screwed no matter how you look at it.

Your school system is the subject of the perfect example of corruption in the teachers union, which costs your state retarded amounts of money but you wanna bitch about 23 cent gas tax? Get your priorities straight

[Kapadons]

A high estate tax is very destructive. Take Hillary's 65% proposal as an example.

Lets say you have a small family business and then die. The person inheriting that business, in this case lets assume its a child, he/she will need to come up with 65% value of that business. Now 65% is going to be a lot, so how are they going to do it? Its not like most people can just come up with 65% of the valuation suddenly and realistically, so what happens? They sell the business. That's right, the business you set up in your lifetime is going to me most likely sold to someone else to pay the tax man simply for the crime of you dying.

Also, a high % only encourages frivolous spending on high luxury towards the end of ones life since they believe that in the end its either a use it or lose it to the IRS. On the other hand, a low rate encourages people to pass the possessions on to their next of kin, keeping in place the ability of businesses to operate mostly unaltered to a new generation.

The inheritance tax is nothing but theft, one last kick in the nuts by the IRS after you die. In my opinion its straight theft. The issue here is that those who hate this tax believe that a persons money they accumulate during their life is theirs, and not the governments. Those who support a high rate believe that that money belongs to everyone else but the person who accumulated it in the first place.

And people wonder why rich people store all the money they can in offshore accounts. To stop the IRS from fucking them even more. Should have been the first red flag the IRS had gone too far. But you have people brainwashed into thinking it's a bad thing for a wealthy person to want to keep their own money.

[Sunseeker]

Generationally inherited wealth is toxic to meritocracy and as such there is no reason to allow a wealth transfer of such magnitude get by tax free when almost every other wealth transfer in our lives is taxed as well.

Basically this. I used to work for a law firm that did a lot of estate tax work. It's disgusting. People are literally transferring millions of dollars to their children who have already been given everything in life. The company their father started 100 years ago, the multiple homes across the country; of course, the redeeming factor is that often these kids are spoiled little shits who squander the money, though the downside to that is when they do, the inevitably fuck the economy, destroy good businesses and cost people jobs.

I mean fuck, some of the local ones are suck glorious fuckups that grandpa committed suicide over their squabbling for the money he earned.

So yeah, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, don't rely on your parents to hand things to you.

[mvaliz]

And people wonder why rich people store all the money they can in offshore accounts. To stop the IRS from fucking them even more. Should have been the first red flag the IRS had gone too far. But you have people brainwashed into thinking it's a bad thing for a wealthy person to want to keep their own money.

Or maybe they can do what the CEO of Costco does, and invests in its employees and company while the CEOs have massive salary caps.

Don't play the fuking pitty party for the greedy. There's plenty who don't need to live the life of avarice, and they make everything and everyone around them better... Not just themselves. And doing that makes a better society.

And lets NOT forget that the vast majority of those so called "putting accounts away in offshore accounts" (name them?) are paying ZERO in taxes thanks to loopholes. It's not even that they're having anything unfair against them tax wise - currently ALL the advantages are to the super-rich in favor of trickel down bullshit. Dump wants to give them MORE breaks (including himself).

[nextormento]

While bitching at the onepercenters is a cool endeavor and all, the middle class should be abandoning gas anyway. Jacking the taxes incentives just that.

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It's worth noting that OP omitted that the plan is not only for road work, but also includes mass transit systems (something they note there's a lack of).
So, this thread is just a no-sources, partially-reported, excuse to whine about onpercenters.

[Themius]

While bitching at the onepercenters is a cool endeavor and all, the middle class should be abandoning gas anyway. Jacking the taxes incentives just that.

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It's worth noting that OP omitted that the plan is not only for road work, but also includes mass transit systems (something they note there's a lack of).
So, this thread is just a no-sources, partially-reported, excuse to whine about onpercenters.

The source I quoted was the nj government.

The fact stands they raised the prices on everyone in the state, and then have decided on top of this the wealthy shall pay no estate tax, considering that we are what the third state with the most millionaires per capita, it's a little ridiculous.

[nextormento]

The fact stands they raised the prices on everyone in the state, and then have decided on top of this the wealthy shall pay no estate tax, considering that we are what the third state with the most millionaires per capita, it's a little ridiculous.

Like I said, bitching about onepercenters is a cool thing to do.
And it's a problem which is hard to resolve. Because we generally want the filthy rich to stay in and pay some taxes. If one makes it so that they pay more than they're willing to, they'll move elsewhere: because, unlike the middle class, they have more resources to do so.
Anything short of unconditional basic income, or other pie in the sky proposals, is bound to produce such disparities. It sucks, but we make the best of it through compromise.

On the particulars of jacking up gas prices, one should favor it regardless of the net balance. Having the middle class bound by car mobility is unsustainable by all accounts. If they also offer alternatives to transport (like public transport, which they're doing apparently, or subsiding electric cars perhaps), the balance can't be measured only through looking at taxes: it must account for spending. If, say, public transportation ends up cheaper than cars (*), the middle class with be more taxed, but they'll be spending a whole lot less.

(*)I don't have much hope on that happening anytime soon. Not with such low urban density in suburbia. Decentivizing cars, through gas prices, is a step in that direction though.

[Themius]

Like I said, bitching about onepercenters is a cool thing to do.
And it's a problem which is hard to resolve. Because we generally want the filthy rich to stay in and pay some taxes. If one makes it so that they pay more than they're willing to, they'll move elsewhere: because, unlike the middle class, they have more resources to do so.
Anything short of unconditional basic income, or other pie in the sky proposals, is bound to produce such disparities. It sucks, but we make the best of it through compromise.

On the particulars of jacking up gas prices, one should favor it regardless of the net balance. Having the middle class bound by car mobility is unsustainable by all accounts. If they also offer alternatives to transport (like public transport, which they're doing apparently, or subsiding electric cars perhaps), the balance can't be measured only through looking at taxes: it must account for spending. If, say, public transportation ends up cheaper than cars (*), the middle class with be more taxed, but they'll be spending a whole lot less.

(*)I don't have much hope on that happening anytime soon. Not with such low urban density in suburbia. Decentivizing cars, through gas prices, is a step in that direction though.

Oh for fuck sakes, it's a fucking myth. For decades (about 3) people have been spouting this bullshit that the millionaires will all just up and move, move fucking where?! Nebraska?! A lot of our wealthy happen to have ties to this area, including businsess which may be in New York.

Despite all this "oh our lovely rich will leave" they don't they're still here and we have gotten more

[Theinquisition]

And people wonder why rich people store all the money they can in offshore accounts. To stop the IRS from fucking them even more. Should have been the first red flag the IRS had gone too far. But you have people brainwashed into thinking it's a bad thing for a wealthy person to want to keep their own money.

Indeed friend.

Then we get the normal leftists here on this forum stomping their feet like little children "it's not fair that they put their money overseas!!!! why are they hiding their money!!!"

Yeah, no shit, probably because you keep scheming and won't leave their shit alone.

[Shadowferal]

Well, it's always good to see people champion the wealthy elite. (hope you're all getting paid. You're not...? hmmm)

Higher taxes for everyone except those too wealthy...because screwing over 99% of the population is a good thing.../s

Christie just reminded everyone in NJ why it's difficult to elect republican governors.

[Theinquisition]

Well, it's always good to see people champion the wealthy elite.
Higher taxes for everyone except those too wealthy...because screwing over 99% of the population is good thing.../s

Christie just reminded everyone in NJ why it's difficult to elect republican governors.

Meh, not really.

We can all agree that everyone needs to pay their "fair share" the issue is coming to agreement with what fair share is. Many people, not just the "wealthy elite" are against the estate tax on philosophical grounds.

I feel that once your taxed on your income, that should be it.....its your money and you should be able to transfer it or spend at as you wish without the gov't having yet another hand in your pocket.

I also feel that taxes, in total, should never exceed 50%, but that's just me.

[nextormento]

Despite all this "oh our lovely rich will leave" they don't they're still here and we have gotten more

We simply have very little data to assess its veracity: because you keep favoring them anyway, so why would they move. As it is, I'm ok with labeling the idea conventional wisdom, because' it's poorly backed either way. But it's a vector to consider anyway.

It's not like politics is done through evidence, but through persuasion and power. The filthy rich are very powerful, and the college grads, activists, ows folks, etc., bitching about onepercenters are not very persuasive, as you're amply proving.

[NED funded]

A high estate tax is very destructive. Take Hillary's 65% proposal as an example.

Lets say you have a small family business and then die. The person inheriting that business, in this case lets assume its a child, he/she will need to come up with 65% value of that business. Now 65% is going to be a lot, so how are they going to do it? Its not like most people can just come up with 65% of the valuation suddenly and realistically, so what happens? They sell the business. That's right, the business you set up in your lifetime is going to me most likely sold to someone else to pay the tax man simply for the crime of you dying.

Also, a high % only encourages frivolous spending on high luxury towards the end of ones life since they believe that in the end its either a use it or lose it to the IRS. On the other hand, a low rate encourages people to pass the possessions on to their next of kin, keeping in place the ability of businesses to operate mostly unaltered to a new generation.

The inheritance tax is nothing but theft, one last kick in the nuts by the IRS after you die. In my opinion its straight theft. The issue here is that those who hate this tax believe that a persons money they accumulate during their life is theirs, and not the governments. Those who support a high rate believe that that money belongs to everyone else but the person who accumulated it in the first place.

I just checked the data and in 2013(1) only 120 farms and small businesses paid estate taxes. If you are a farmer you might have a case as land prices increases but even then you can find a way around those taxes in order to increase exemptions or pay less over a long period of time.
(1) http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/sites...F/T13-0020.pdf

[Shadowferal]

Well, Christie's poll numbers are pretty much in the toilet, so he probably doesn't care at this point.

[Kapadons]

Meh, not really.

We can all agree that everyone needs to pay their "fair share" the issue is coming to agreement with what fair share is. Many people, not just the "wealthy elite" are against the estate tax on philosophical grounds.

I feel that once your taxed on your income, that should be it.....its your money and you should be able to transfer it or spend at as you wish without the gov't having yet another hand in your pocket.

I also feel that taxes, in total, should never exceed 50%, but that's just me.

Nah bro. We need to tax your business for the privledge to do business. Tax the weekly salary you pay yourself to work there. Then tax the profit you make from the business. Then tax you every time you buy something. Tax you even more for gas. Tax you every year for the house you live in. Tax you on money you make investing the money they already taxed. Then at the end of it, you die and they tax you again just to leave all your stuff to a loved one.