Should addons that help with bosses be removed all together?

[ComputerNerd]

Yes they should.

I don't see how people can make a compelling argument for addons that essentially play the game for you. Granted in the past many mechanics weren't particularly clear, but since WoD they've started making mechanics more interactive and obvious to see. So I personally think it is time to start breaking addons such as DBM in favor of clearer game mechanics that force you to look at your surroundings instead of your addon timers.

Blizzard have tried to improve the mechanics, but they simply will not work for everyone.
Not everyone is going to see a spell effect as well as another player, nor will some people respond so well to a sound.
The visibility in particular is going to vary hugely based on the hardware and therefore graphics settings a player is using.
If a boss mod is simply replacing that, then that is a long way from "playing the game for you".
Which is simply an ignorant claim.

The default UI simply falls short in a lot of cases, particularly with timers for cooldowns and durations.

[Deleted]

Blizzard would have easier time making raid bosses if there were no addons, that is for sure. DBM is really making required reactions less-pressuring to all raiders.

[UrsocCheese]

probably addons are killing this game

[Hubbl3]

The half-truth is, yes.

The other half-truth is, if we remove those addons, we will go back to 2 phase fights with 3-5 abilities per boss, only 1 relevant enough to care that it kills you.

Bring back Magmadar-style-bosses!

[Deleted]

Why do people use the excuse that with no boss mods the fights would have to be easier? The purpose of boss mods is to simplify the fights so the difficulty would be exactly the same, except with no boss mods the really bad players would be more visible.

[Sencha]

Yes they should be removed.

[Deleted]

Why do people use the excuse that with no boss mods the fights would have to be easier? The purpose of boss mods is to simplify the fights so the difficulty would be exactly the same, except with no boss mods the really bad players would be more visible.

They already are visible and complain they cant do dps or heal during a given mechanic.

[JonBeMerkin]

Sorry but only an *idiot* thinks they should be removed…

You do know this game hasn't always had DBM right..? Just because its in place now doesn't mean it has to be that way forever. I would say an "idiot" could use DBM and not have to read certain mechanics or put in effort into discovering them vs no DBM someone having to actual go through trial and error.

I mean we do after all already have dungeon journal

[Shihao]

Why people like to say that having a timer is the same as having an addon play the game for you? Has DBM evolved into a bot or somethimg?
Last time I checked you still had to properly do the mechanics, position correctly and have enough dps/healing to beat the encounter.

[FobManX]

I'm fine with add ons that show timers or give big alerts when a boss is going to do something that isn't easily noticeable(easy to miss stuff with 20+ other people's spell animations and what not going off).

What I don't like are add ons that tell you exactly where to go for positioning and what not, those are just lazy and makes it feel like you're not so much playing a game but just following some kinda automated work program.

[Deleted]

sure why not. Add /dbm pull to the game itself and ban DBM then. C'mon there are Raidwarnings in the game itself that are totally sufficient. After a few raid days you know the encounters and dont need another bar on screen that tells you in x secs something special will happen. Apart from that: everybody should be able to not stand in fire without warning and to keep an eye on debuff stacks.

EDIT: I admit exorsus raid tools was quite useful in fights like Iskar, on the other side making every single person in the raid download the addon and explain how to use it was quite annoying..

- - - Updated - - -

probably addons are killing this game

Most addons are a legit and free improvement of the base game imho.

[Deleted]

sure why not. Add /dbm pull to the game itself and ban DBM then.

using DBM core is sufficient according to a guildie, but we simply use SlashIn with a macro to count down

[Otimus]

I think the removal of boss mod type addons and DPS tracking addons would be a net gain for the very casual playerbase, a huge net loss for the more hardcore, data focused playerbase, and somewhere in between for the mid-core playerbase.

Like all things, most things, really, they're good in theory, generally helpful (arguable too much so?) in practice, and toxic to the entire game in some ways and the community in some ways in practice.


Frankly, I think only basic UI mods should be a thing, things like DBM shouldn't exist, TSM shouldn't exist, recount, tell me when, etc.

Granted, I totally use and like all these things, but you do have to admit that SOME of them, especially DBM, have almost gotten to the point where they're essentially required for non-guilded activity to not have a bad time, and that kind of... sucks.

TBH, when things get that essential/useful/widespread, Blizzard either needs to A) Bake it into the game (Like, for example, the AH being a steaming pile of shit for.. well, ever, with only addons fixing it), or B) get rid of things, or aspects of things (Which they do do sometimes!)

TL;DR, Blizzard really is absolutely fucking lazy with making it's default UI acceptable for most things.

[Terahertz]

Blizzard have tried to improve the mechanics, but they simply will not work for everyone.
Not everyone is going to see a spell effect as well as another player, nor will some people respond so well to a sound.
The visibility in particular is going to vary hugely based on the hardware and therefore graphics settings a player is using.
If a boss mod is simply replacing that, then that is a long way from "playing the game for you".
Which is simply an ignorant claim.

The default UI simply falls short in a lot of cases, particularly with timers for cooldowns and durations.

Not everyone is going to see a spell effect as well as another player? That literally means that player is a worse player than those who can. And it means that player has something they could practice and improve on. An addon making up for that lack of skill would essentially be playing that part of the game for them. I don't see how I'm being ignorant with that claim.

Blizzard has tried and succeeded in giving players more clarity on many mechanics to the point where DBM is becoming more and more irrelevant. At this point they could simply break the addon and focus more on creating mechanics and encounters without DBM in mind.

[Spl4sh3r]

Anyone who actually believes they should remove addons like this is incredibly short sighted. Devs have been designing fights with these sort of addons in mind for years now, if not the majority of the games lifespan. If they removed them entirely, they'd have to lower the complexity of the bosses SIGNIFICANTLY.

I see no problem with what we have now.

Why would they need to do that? They have even started adding ingame messages for when things happen. The only thing that is removed with addons would be the timing and the automatically marking of targets.

[Otimus]

Not everyone is going to see a spell effect as well as another player? That literally means that player is a worse player than those who can. And it means that player has something they could practice and improve on. An addon making up for that lack of skill would essentially be playing that part of the game for them. I don't see how I'm being ignorant with that claim.

Blizzard has tried and succeeded in giving players more clarity on many mechanics to the point where DBM is becoming more and more irrelevant. At this point they could simply break the addon and focus more on creating mechanics and encounters without DBM in mind.

Could also mean that Blizzard made a spell effect hard to see (Which they have done before). In some ways, things like DBM can give them (by which I mean Blizzard) too much leeway because the players won't notice these things due to using a mod. That's actually true for a lot of things related to Blizzard and mods. Like with how the AH has been a pile of junk for over a decade because "Ehhh, mods'll fix it!"

[grexly75]

I have to laugh at this, I wonder of those who want addons like DBM removed only want them removed so they can pretend to be uber hardcore types.. I am pretty sure if Blizz did kill all addons it would not go down to well with most of the playerbase..

And the thing in all of this is even with mods like DBM, GTFO and so on, it still does not stop groups from wiping on bosses..

[Deleted]

And the thing in all of this is even with mods like DBM, GTFO and so on, it still does not stop groups from wiping on bosses..

There was a day during TBC Blizzard accidently broke boss mods and "Lootreaver" was now "unbeatable" because the most basic task of "watch the big green balls and just avoid them" was not manageable by like 80% of players. Hard truth being said: bad players wont get any better no matter how much artificial help they have, just in some cases DBM recieves more attention by mentioned players than a raidlead shouting to move the F out of the aoe.

[Ashkiman]

Not having addons like dbm require Blizzard to work much more on their boss UIs, or tune down and remove a lot of boss abilities.
Why would Blizzard make their job harder when there are people doing it for free in form of addons?
Although some addons like dbm are going a bit too far, for example they now even have arrows to show where certain abilities that bounce between two players land. Or tell you exactly when you should break the chains on Archimond.
Disabling some of their features is fine but removing them all together would be pretty stupid unless they want make bosses' mechanisms easier.

[Echocho]

You don't have to use it. I don't play with addons at all. I play the game the way Blizzard designed it. My raid team is always harassing me to install this addon and that addon but luckily nobody can force you to do that shit.