Flawed gearing system, stuck at 845 ilvl

[Osmeric]

Mythic + was never intended to "sustain" this expansion. You are extremely disorted.

What part of the word "if" didn't you understand?

[Re1ax]

Do you think this game has become very flawed as to gearing up?

Yes, it is flawed in that it is way too easy to gear up. Not sure what to tell you here other than either be better or just play more..

[Allenseiei]

What part of the word "if" didn't you understand?

So putting the "if" completely justifices making those asumptions? Putting if doesn't make them any better specially when blizzard themselves already explained what they expected from mythic +

[Osmeric]

So putting the "if" completely justifices making those asumptions? Putting if doesn't make them any better specially when blizzard themselves already explained what they expected from mythic +

Putting in the word "if" means I'm NOT making assumptions. Hypotheticals are not assumptions.

If I say "if I were the Pope, I'd have a cool hat", I'm not assuming I live in Rome.

[Allenseiei]

Putting in the word "if" means I'm NOT making assumptions. Hypotheticals are not assumptions.

If I say "if I were the Pope, I'd have a cool hat", I'm not assuming I live in Rome.

What a convenient way to retreat from a conversation. It ends here then since you were talking "hypothetically" and it seems you already gave up on your "hypothesis".

[Granyala]

And???? So because you haven't seen something titan forge that high makes it impossible? God, I hope you've seen a legendary drop, I'd hate to think that is impossible too and everyone who claims to have one is lying.

If it's that rare (I play since launch and have never seen an 850 from a WQ, I have 3 845s) then it's not a reliable way to gear up. Yeah sure you might get lucky, but you cannot push your character in any controlled way.

The way I see it, is that past 845 item level, if you want to reliably evolve your char you need to raid in an organized fashion.
Everything else is just a WF/TF RNG shitfest.

[Osmeric]

What a convenient way to retreat from a conversation. It ends here then since you were talking "hypothetically" and it seems you already gave up on your "hypothesis".

I wasn't retreating from the conversation. I was pointing out how you were wrong. You're the one retreating. Projecting much?

But let's back up a little. If, as we apparently are agreeing, Mythic+ is targeted at a small subset of the players, then telling people to do Mythic+ if they are stuck at some gear level (as I think was happening in this thread; didn't go back to confirm) is going against the designers' intent in this expansion.

(I hope my continued use of the word "if" wasn't too confusing there for you.)

[Cronovey]

The OP has a point. It's extraordinarily difficult to get past the 840-ish hump, prior to raiding.

It really isn't that difficult if you put in the time and effort to work on crafted gear though. You can get your 8 main slots crafted, you can also fill a trinket slot with a Darkmoon trinket, your neck and both ring slots with crafted pieces, and that literally leaves you a single trinket and your cloak that you have to really work for, because you'll get that high on your weapon through standard things like heroics and completing your class campaign. It's a matter of where you're putting in the time and effort. If you're sitting in dungeons all day yelling about how RNGesus doesn't favor you, you won't necessarily get the gear. When you put the time and gold into just farming for guaranteed items, it's a much more practical way to gear because you know for sure you're not going to sit around for 3 weeks staring at an 825 belt from a heroic.

To give you an idea, here's my DH: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...laive/advanced

I skipped a few odds and ends since I got some relatively good pieces from mythics, but 7 of the 8 main slots are crafted and upgraded to 850, and I'm only wearing a single piece of raid gear to hit that 851 item level. If I were having trouble, I could have gone with the crafted route and even minus the heroic trash drop I would have been about 850 with a crafted neck and rings at 850 ilvl and a trinket at 850 from crafting.

Yes, I understand these things are expensive. It's time consuming to farm, and that's the issue; people would rather spend 25 minutes in a dungeon and complain that they couldn't get a drop they wanted rather than spend an hour or two farming and guarantee themselves a massive upgrade.

[Ichifails]

I wasn't retreating from the conversation. I was pointing out how you were wrong. You're the one retreating. Projecting much?

But let's back up a little. If, as we apparently are agreeing, Mythic+ is targeted at a small subset of the players, then telling people to do Mythic+ if they are stuck at some gear level (as I think was happening in this thread; didn't go back to confirm) is going against the designers' intent in this expansion.

(I hope my continued use of the word "if" wasn't too confusing there for you.)

What would anyone other than a small subset of players do with more gear? You get the sense of progressions by slowly getting better gear during the entire expansion, why do you need to out gear Heroic raids withing a day of creating your character if you aren't in that small subset of players??

[stgeorge78]

845 is too low for heroic EN? the raid is less than 10 days old.

Almost every listing I see requires 850 and 7/7N achievement.

[Allenseiei]

I wasn't retreating from the conversation. I was pointing out how you were wrong. You're the one retreating. Projecting much?

But let's back up a little. If, as we apparently are agreeing, Mythic+ is targeted at a small subset of the players, then telling people to do Mythic+ if they are stuck at some gear level (as I think was happening in this thread; didn't go back to confirm) is going against the designers' intent in this expansion.

(I hope my continued use of the word "if" wasn't too confusing there for you.)

Then why is it you need to get raid level gear, if you are not raiding, at such a fast pace? It's been 10 days (after the 850 cap was lifted and mythic + introduced) and you already expect to be geared as much as raiders?

You dislike timers, why even care about the timer? You still get loot, or you just feel frustrated that you don't get the 2 or 3 boxes?

What's ruining your friend's social experience in dungeons if you don't have the urge of gear because you aren't raiding? Do you want to be like the mythic guilds that current go from 855-876 ilvl?

You did retreat from the conversation. You said it was just an "if" as implying you never really meant what was said after the if. You never argumentated in favor of blizzard thinking that mythic + would sustain this expansion but simply dropped it and went on to another argument.
No, i'm not a native english speaker.

[Osmeric]

You did retreat from the conversation. You said it was just an "if" as implying you never really meant what was said after the if.

You fail at basic logic. That's not what "if" means. When I say "if A, then B", then what I am saying is that either A is not true, or that B is true. It is not saying "A is true, and therefore B is true".

[mickybrighteyes]

Almost every listing I see requires 850 and 7/7N achievement.

fools have over the top requirements for pugs...

news at, naw this isn't new. People trying to vet their lists in the simplest way possible by setting the bar higher than it really needs to be.

[bubbadubba]

Hi, I need some advice as well as to maybe start a discussion about gearing.

I am 845 item level and I feel I will never get above this. At this point, you are basically stuck.

As an example:

- WQ gives tops 825 or 830 blues, nothing higher, NEVER any higher than that. I check EVERY day.
- Ran 5 mythic dungeons the other day, got 3 gears, all 840... which is not helping. Odds for WF/TF is crazy low.
- Cleared EN twice. Got 1 gear, 850, that was barely an upgrade. Six times I coined gold (3 per week).

And the problem remains this:

- My ilvl is too low for EN HC.
- My ilvl is too low for Mythic+ (maybe not technically, but been declined in like 20 groups now, all want 850-860+ even for M2).

HOW am I suppose to gear up? Spamming Mythic Dungeon after Mythic Dungeon week after week and praying for a 850 drop doesn't seem like a fun way to progress into the expansion.

I cleared EN with my guild in split run, once they start mythic, those runs stop. I am screwed then, as no group will invite me due to low ilvl AND even if they do, PuGs dont seem to clear more then 1 boss...


What should I do?

Do you think this game has become very flawed as to gearing up?

I expect a lot of replies like "Just do Mythic+" or "Start your own group and reserve stuff with ML", but like I said, NOT A SINGLE Mythic + group will take me and I don't have the time to start my own groups :/

I have been playing for years and this system is probably the best gearing system WoW has had.

-My DK is at 5 850 WQ pieces, it is my alt and I usually just do world quests. Just because it says 825 doesn't mean it can't upgrade, instead of checking the Ilvl, you should be checking the upgrade it could possibly be. If you have a 835-840 bracers with meh stats and you see 830 braces with the stats you want, go do it and if it upgrades then you have an amazing piece. If you just look at the Ilvl and go "825..." and not do it then you don't have the chance of WF/TF. My alt has a higher Ilvl then you because I don't think like that.

-WF and TF is not supposed to be super common but common enough, it is the quantity of things you do. The reason my alt has so many is because I consistently do things that are quick and easy to complete.

-Coins are not guaranteed gear, I went 24 coins without a piece in previous expansion. EN may not give you upgrades, nothing is 100% but you could also get an upgrade, you need to look at it as just having fun with a gear reward as a chance. If you are going just for gear then you will get frustrated.

-Your Ilvl is not to low for EN HC. It is to low for pugging EN HC.

-I hate people going on about being declined for mythic+, I make my own groups and I have issues because I have to decline 20 people. I don't have time to siphon through everyone. You need to just keep trying, I go do world quests and just keep signing up for multiple mythic+, it takes a while but I kill two birds with one stone. Also mention to people that you will flask and use potions, this goes a long way. Your Ilvl is not too low, you are just competing to get into groups with 20-30+ people if not more. If I don't have world quests then I farm herbs or ore so I can get gold to either have flasks and potions or buy gear (I have not bought any gear as of yet).

The fastest and most efficient way to gear up is buying crafted gear and upgrading it. That is expensive so I don't advise it but I will tell you what I do instead.

1. emm quest and make sure I do WC with gear, I do them even if the Ilvl is lower.

2.LFR- I ran LFR on my alt, I had a class hall quest that gave an upgrade, one upgrade dropped and another piece dropped that was not an upgrade.

3.World boss- Use your coin if you are not doing EN HC.

4.PVP weekly quest or other weekly quests in the future. It has a chest that can give loot and gives honor, honor gear goes up as you level honor, so do honor world quests if you see garrison resources as a reward or when your honor level is higher the loot upgrades.

5.Mythic archway and court of stars. Do both of these each week, the loot is superior to the Ilvl on the actual piece.

6. Get to know people that run things, if you are a decent played and you socialize then just grab peoples battle.net. This will help with your group problem, if you are not a bad player and you seem interested in running a lot then people are more likely to go to their friends list then group finder. Just hit add. This is a very old school thing to do but it is a great tool to get invites. I have been doing this since Vanilla.

7. Realize your Ilvl wont keep spiking up like it does between 800-845. It is like that every expansion and you just need to remember this. It will slow down and you may think that you are not getting invited due to your ilvl. It is not your ilvl but the amount of people, so you get a group and you do well in that group, add the leader and tell him if he ever needs a PuG that you are always down. Getting friends to run with is what got me into raiding in the hardcore scene because I kept getting invites.

I look at this adding friends like I do in business. A sales rep at my work goes to pubs all the time, I thought this was a drinking problem but he was making contacts, he did not have to work nearly as hard as our other sales reps because he was making friends at the pub who would grab his contact info and contact him if he ever needed the product we sell. When I realized this I understood the importance of socializing to make contacts and how it applies to how the world works.

[Pua]

So, like a few percent of the player population? We're on the same page, I think.

Mythic dungeons are aimed at a higher percentage than that, but the Mythic+ system is clearly designed at the more hardcore playerbase. I can't think of a single argument that disproves that assessment.

Since the release of raids WQ's can also proc to 895, before they had a 850 cap. I already had 2x 860 and 1 865 from a WQ, and on this site screenshots from 895's have been linked, 850's are not even that rare, i've had atleast 10 WQ's proc (sometimes useless) 850's.

An 850 cap means you're not getting anywhere near the 854 @schwarzkopf and I were discussing. Even now, I've picked up lots of items from World Quests and the most numerous procs are tertiary ones that are nigh useless.

This just comes across as absolute laziness to me.

While I think the OP has a point, I agree with this view generally. Time is no barrier to starting your own group, especially if you're a tank or healer.

It really isn't that difficult if you put in the time and effort to work on crafted gear though. You can get your 8 main slots crafted, you can also fill a trinket slot with a Darkmoon trinket, your neck and both ring slots with crafted pieces, and that literally leaves you a single trinket and your cloak that you have to really work for, because you'll get that high on your weapon through standard things like heroics and completing your class campaign.

While I agree that upgrading your weapon isn't that big an ask, I don't accept that working on upgrading everything that's crafted to 850 is in any way "easy" - for reasons already posted. It's not reasonable to assume that everyone has six hours a day to spend on World of Warcraft. An absolutely pitiful number of players do.

Funnily enough, however, I don't really see this as a problem. For the casual playerbase that I'm now a part of, having something take time is an absolutely reasonable design goal. If you're not going to be raiding, then the time taken to work on crafted gear is hardly too much to ask. I think the problem, ultimately, is that the casual playerbase can't accept that something will either take skill, or it will take time. This is in no way a criticism of the game, and in every way a criticism of player expectation.

With a couple of minor problems (Obliterum and heroic dungeons), I think Legion's endgame is the most well-tuned and varied the game has ever seen.

[chronia]

Mythic dungeons are aimed at a higher percentage than that, but the Mythic+ system is clearly designed at the more hardcore playerbase. I can't think of a single argument that disproves that assessment.



An 850 cap means you're not getting anywhere near the 854 @schwarzkopf and I were discussing. Even now, I've picked up lots of items from World Quests and the most numerous procs are tertiary ones that are nigh useless.



While I think the OP has a point, I agree with this view generally. Time is no barrier to starting your own group, especially if you're a tank or healer.



While I agree that upgrading your weapon isn't that big an ask, I don't accept that working on upgrading everything that's crafted to 850 is in any way "easy" - for reasons already posted. It's not reasonable to assume that everyone has six hours a day to spend on World of Warcraft. An absolutely pitiful number of players do.

Funnily enough, however, I don't really see this as a problem. For the casual playerbase that I'm now a part of, having something take time is an absolutely reasonable design goal. If you're not going to be raiding, then the time taken to work on crafted gear is hardly too much to ask. I think the problem, ultimately, is that the casual playerbase can't accept that something will either take skill, or it will take time. This is in no way a criticism of the game, and in every way a criticism of player expectation.

With a couple of minor problems (Obliterum and heroic dungeons), I think Legion's endgame is the most well-tuned and varied the game has ever seen.

Like i posted earlier, the 850 has been gone for a while now, the 3 weeks from launch to raid opening there was a 850 cap on gear from Worldquests and other sources. Since 10 days that cap has been lifted and you can TF 895 gear from every source, however on gear from WQ's or lets say heroic dungeons you need to be more lucky then lets say gear dropping in a M 7+ chest. Which is pretty logical. So what @schwarzkopf says is actually right, without crafted gear and purely from Normal / Heroic / Mythic dungeons, emerissary chests and WQ', but also stuff like lfr you can get 854+ ilvl, it will just take longer than when you also put Normal / Heroic / Mythics raids and M+ dungeons in the mix.

I wouldn't say Mythic + is totally aimed at the hardcore playerbase also, the lower end M+ difficulties (atleast +2 and +3), are a very small step up from Mythics, who themselves are a very small step up from heroics, which are definately not aimed at the hardcore player base. Looking at the top end of the scale, sure those difficulties are for now aimed at the more hardcore players. However even casual players that do a few M+ a week eventually will get the gear to tackle those.

[Ashkiman]

Why don't people understand something called RNG exists and blame the game for whatever they don't get lucky about?
About your question, craft 850 gear, don't have gold? go make some, don't have time? go buy tokens and turn them into gold, don't have real money? join a good guild and progress/gear up with them, don't have the skills? play the game casually and wait to get lucky with RNG or get invited to a mythic+ pug and know why you're stuck with this item level.
And also there are many boosting groups for mythic+ willing to boost your level 2/3 key and get you 3 chests, join one of them maybe and get the loot for your key once.

[schwarzkopf]

This is the point that's worth taking into account.

Indeed, my original comment was that it wasn't difficult, just time consuming.

- - - Updated - - -

Yep, fair enough, but you're already clearing normal raids

I'm not in Team A or B, I just got to 5/7 last Monday. I did get a nice relic from that - but as you said, not a great deal of improvement

[Dire]

Hi, I need some advice as well as to maybe start a discussion about gearing.

I am 845 item level and I feel I will never get above this. At this point, you are basically stuck.

As an example:

- WQ gives tops 825 or 830 blues, nothing higher, NEVER any higher than that. I check EVERY day.
- Ran 5 mythic dungeons the other day, got 3 gears, all 840... which is not helping. Odds for WF/TF is crazy low.
- Cleared EN twice. Got 1 gear, 850, that was barely an upgrade. Six times I coined gold (3 per week).

And the problem remains this:

- My ilvl is too low for EN HC.
- My ilvl is too low for Mythic+ (maybe not technically, but been declined in like 20 groups now, all want 850-860+ even for M2).

HOW am I suppose to gear up? Spamming Mythic Dungeon after Mythic Dungeon week after week and praying for a 850 drop doesn't seem like a fun way to progress into the expansion.

I cleared EN with my guild in split run, once they start mythic, those runs stop. I am screwed then, as no group will invite me due to low ilvl AND even if they do, PuGs dont seem to clear more then 1 boss...


What should I do?

Do you think this game has become very flawed as to gearing up?

I expect a lot of replies like "Just do Mythic+" or "Start your own group and reserve stuff with ML", but like I said, NOT A SINGLE Mythic + group will take me and I don't have the time to start my own groups :/

Have some cheese.

[Daystone]

The only flaw is that you can get insanely geared outside raids.
If you are stuck at 845 its because you are oblivious.

Can't help you, honestly.

Have to agree with this. Feels kinda weird spending a night in EN(hc) progression with people getting 870 stuff, and afterwards we finish a MoS+3 in 12 minutes and my bud gets a 895 tf ring.

Edit: Yes, it feels weird, but I actually love the new gearing system. So many possibilities.