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  1. #1

    Republican VP Hopeful Mike Pence Refuses to Pardon Man Cleared of Charges

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/mikehayes/m...k8z#.foRREKRX4

    The gist is that Keith Cooper was wrongfully convicted of Armed Robbery and Attempted Murder and was sentenced to 40 years. Which to be honest is rather alarming at best since there have been rapists that have gotten less time than that. But I digress. He was cleared of charges with eyewitnesses recanted their testimony, DNA evidence showed he wasn't at the scene of the crime, and a jailhouse informant admitted that he lied to investigators.

    The problem isn't that he was cleared, it is that those 2 charges are still on his record and Mike Pence refuses to pardon him because "all other judicial remedies haven't been exhausted". Even though the parole board said he should be pardoned and have the felony charges removed.

    That doesn't look good for an already shitty VP candidate.

  2. #2
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Its a non-issue for his voter base because they believe in harsh penalties, they'd say "well he must of done something"

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    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    Its a non-issue for his voter base because they believe in harsh penalties, they'd say "well he must of done something"
    Basically this. I'm sure there will be a bevy of responses from the usuals about how he would be free already if he really was innocent.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Basically this. I'm sure there will be a bevy of responses from the usuals about how he would be free already if he really was innocent.
    But the sad thing is, he is free. The parole board gave him immediate freedom the day the DNA evidence and eyewitnesses recanted. It's just that the 2 felonies are still on his record. So it makes it all but impossible for him to get a job. Mike Pence is just showing how much of a douche he is. He should have given the pardon the same time the parole board gave their decision. If Pence doesn't do it, Obama should step in and do it.

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    Pandaren Monk
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    Man, what a loaded story.

    So here is what is really happening.

    If a person is found to be innocent of an incident he/she files an appeal, this is known as a post-conviction relief. This is the normal process from getting all charges dismissed but this guy would rather skip the normal process and go straight to the top instead. All Pence did was request that the legal process be followed before he issues a pardon. Why doesn't he just issue a pardon? Because there is nothing wrong with the appeals process and every indication shows that Mr. Cooper would win an appeal.

    All this is a guy either looking to score political points or refusing to follow the normal legal process.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ezgeze View Post
    All this is a guy either looking to score political points or refusing to follow the normal legal process.
    Possibly, or maybe he wants a job as soon as possible so he can earn money?

  7. #7
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezgeze View Post
    Man, what a loaded story.

    So here is what is really happening.

    If a person is found to be innocent of an incident he/she files an appeal, this is known as a post-conviction relief. This is the normal process from getting all charges dismissed but this guy would rather skip the normal process and go straight to the top instead. All Pence did was request that the legal process be followed before he issues a pardon. Why doesn't he just issue a pardon? Because there is nothing wrong with the appeals process and every indication shows that Mr. Cooper would win an appeal.

    All this is a guy either looking to score political points or refusing to follow the normal legal process.
    You would think a party that touts limited government and working for the average man would be made up people who have no problem with expediting processes. What would it cost Pence to move the man along as fast a possible. The poor guy was already facing 40 years for something he didn't even do, you would think someone in Pences shoes would be willing and able to bring the man to justice ASAP, instead of having to wade through a bunch of governmental bureaucracy.

    Pence isn't even smart enough to simply use the incident for political gain...
    Pence is part of the reason why so many offenders become repeat offenders.

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ezgeze View Post
    Man, what a loaded story.

    So here is what is really happening.

    If a person is found to be innocent of an incident he/she files an appeal, this is known as a post-conviction relief. This is the normal process from getting all charges dismissed but this guy would rather skip the normal process and go straight to the top instead. All Pence did was request that the legal process be followed before he issues a pardon. Why doesn't he just issue a pardon? Because there is nothing wrong with the appeals process and every indication shows that Mr. Cooper would win an appeal.

    All this is a guy either looking to score political points or refusing to follow the normal legal process.
    No, he followed the legal process, which is why the parole board gave him his freedom but he can't get a job because of the 2 felonies on his record still. Pence won't remove them even though he followed the entire process.

  9. #9
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    You would think a party that touts limited government and working for the average man would be made up people who have no problem with expediting processes. What would it cost Pence to move the man along as fast a possible. The poor guy was already facing 40 years for something he didn't even do, you would think someone in Pences shoes would be willing and able to bring the man to justice ASAP, instead of having to wade through a bunch of governmental bureaucracy.

    Pence isn't even smart enough to simply use the incident for political gain...
    Pence is part of the reason why so many offenders become repeat offenders.
    Typical strawman argument.

    The fact is an appeals is in place for a reason. If Mr. Cooper decided to appeal, I am quite sure given the circumstances surrounding his case, that it would be fast tracked and approved. But no, he doesn't want that. He wants PENCE to do it.

    You have to ask yourself why the process exists in the first place. A pardon is the LAST option available, not the next to last option. Also, if Pence did pardon before the post-conviction relief what is really even the point of the appeal board at all? Why shouldn't then everyone just skip that appeal and go straight to the governor? It sets a bad example. By withholding a pardon and allowing Mr. Cooper to process his appeal through the system the way it was intended, Pence is allowing the system to work as intended aka the system that he people have chosen to set up.

    Get real people.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    No, he followed the legal process, which is why the parole board gave him his freedom but he can't get a job because of the 2 felonies on his record still. Pence won't remove them even though he followed the entire process.
    An appeal within a post-conviction relief would remove his felonies from his record. Its not that fucking hard. So no, not all legal options have been exhausted.

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    Wiki is hard.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_conviction
    The Appeals Process[edit]
    The appeals process is the request for a formal change of a decision made by a court of law. The litigant who files the appeal is known as the "appellant." A successful appeal must demonstrate to a higher court that the trial court made a decision affected by legal error. The appellate procedure in the United States takes place in appellate court, which makes its judgment based only on the record of the original case. The appellant generally submits a document of legal arguments called a "brief," a written attempt to persuade the judges of appellate court that the decision of the trial court should be reversed. If selected for an "oral argument," appellants may present a short spoken argument to the court. No additional pieces of evidence or witnesses are considered.
    The ruling made by the appellate court is usually final.[3] The decision of the appellate court generally affirms the original decision of the trial court. However, 10-20% of civil and criminal appeals are successful in reversing the decision of the original trial.[4] If the appeals process is unsuccessful, a convicted person may pursue other options, depending upon the severity of his or her sentence and the crime committed.
    In other words....
    The appellate procedure in the United States takes place in appellate court, not at a parole board.

    and

    If the appeals process is unsuccessful, a convicted person may pursue other options........like a pardon? WOW, who would have thought.
    Last edited by ezgeze; 2016-10-02 at 08:48 AM.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Aori's Avatar
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    Well if his innocence has been proven there is no reason to deny a pardon. You're going to make someone suffer more with court costs and a waiting game? Kind of a dick move.

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    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Pence rather tie up the his state's tie and money than to just pardon a man who has been legally cleared by the courts...

    Its like Pence doesn't even understand what his elected position is.

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  12. #12
    I don't understand why people would WANT our elected officials to override our judicial system.

    If you have a problem with the system, fix the system. Don't skip it.

  13. #13
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tankitbetter View Post
    I don't understand why people would WANT our elected officials to override our judicial system.

    If you have a problem with the system, fix the system. Don't skip it.
    How do you fix a system if not through the elected officials?

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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ezgeze View Post
    Typical strawman argument.

    The fact is an appeals is in place for a reason. If Mr. Cooper decided to appeal, I am quite sure given the circumstances surrounding his case, that it would be fast tracked and approved. But no, he doesn't want that. He wants PENCE to do it.

    You have to ask yourself why the process exists in the first place. A pardon is the LAST option available, not the next to last option. Also, if Pence did pardon before the post-conviction relief what is really even the point of the appeal board at all? Why shouldn't then everyone just skip that appeal and go straight to the governor? It sets a bad example. By withholding a pardon and allowing Mr. Cooper to process his appeal through the system the way it was intended, Pence is allowing the system to work as intended aka the system that he people have chosen to set up.

    Get real people.

    - - - Updated - - -



    An appeal within a post-conviction relief would remove his felonies from his record. Its not that fucking hard. So no, not all legal options have been exhausted.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Wiki is hard.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_conviction


    In other words....
    The appellate procedure in the United States takes place in appellate court, not at a parole board.

    and

    If the appeals process is unsuccessful, a convicted person may pursue other options........like a pardon? WOW, who would have thought.
    Sorry but in his case, the felonies are still on his record. Which makes it too hard for him to get a job that doesn't do a criminal background check. The parole board recommended to the governor that he needs a pardon, the governor is saying he didn't do all of what he needed to do but the parole board said he did. Either he needs a pardon or his record expunged. And in Indiana, you have to wait 15 years for it to be expunged. That is only if you are found not guilty, the conviction was vacated, or the charges were dismissed. Neither of which happened in this case. So he has to get a pardon to have it removed from his record.

    He doesn't need an appellate court, he was already paroled after his conviction being overturned.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tankitbetter View Post
    I don't understand why people would WANT our elected officials to override our judicial system.

    If you have a problem with the system, fix the system. Don't skip it.
    Considering the judicial system did its job, albeit after the fact, he should receive his pardon from the governor to have the felonies removed from his record. Because they are still on there.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    How do you fix a system if not through the elected officials?
    You're not saying the elected official should change the system. For example, if the court found that someone had been wrongfully charged then the charges are immediately expunged from record.

    You're asking the elected official to just ignore the system entirely. That's a one-man, temporary fix - NOT a fix to prevent this from happening again.

  16. #16
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tankitbetter View Post
    You're not saying the elected official should change the system. For example, if the court found that someone had been wrongfully charged then the charges are immediately expunged from record.

    You're asking the elected official to just ignore the system entirely. That's a one-man, temporary fix - NOT a fix to prevent this from happening again.
    He wouldn't be ignoring the system though...Pence has the power to pardon individuals, and the man was already found innocent. It would be no different than making a call to tech support and having the supervisor to expedite your issue because you claim has already been vetted.

    Cooper is asking that his case be expedited since the courts have already found him innocent, thats all, because going to the proper channels makes absolutely no sense if you've already been proven innocent, a waste of time and money. It seems like Pence doesn't know enough about the system to realize this...

    This isn't a case of a guilty man being forgiven, its an innocent man being justified.

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tankitbetter View Post
    You're not saying the elected official should change the system. For example, if the court found that someone had been wrongfully charged then the charges are immediately expunged from record.

    You're asking the elected official to just ignore the system entirely. That's a one-man, temporary fix - NOT a fix to prevent this from happening again.
    When he was "paroled", it didn't go off his record. It stayed on his record. He needs a pardon to have it completely removed. In Indiana, to have it expunged, he has to be found not guilty, the conviction was vacated, or the charges were dismissed. Since none of this happened, he has to have a pardon.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    Possibly, or maybe he wants a job as soon as possible so he can earn money?
    He has a job. He's been out for 10 years.

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    Pandaren Monk
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    http://www.clearupmyrecord.com/pardo...-convicted.php
    Pardon vs. Expungement

    In most cases, if you have been wrongfully convicted, what you really should be seeking is expungement. An expungement wipes away your conviction entirely, as if it never happened. If you are pardoned, you can explain that you were wrongfully conviction, but that original conviction will still turn up on your arrest record. If your criminal record is expunged, there is no record of the conviction and if you are asked if you have ever had a conviction, you can truthfully answer no, as if the conviction never happened.
    I stand by my original statement that Mr. Cooper is doing this for political purposes.

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    The Lightbringer stabetha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezgeze View Post
    http://www.clearupmyrecord.com/pardo...-convicted.php


    I stand by my original statement that Mr. Cooper is doing this for political purposes.
    of course he is and you know if it was a Democrat governor the same pepole in this thread demonizing Pence would be defending their "team" with the exact same arguments.
    you can't make this shit up
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